Does graduating from a Top 20 school signal that you are a smart, hardworking person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Top 20" is a euphemism and includes more than 20 schools. So CMU is top 20. Also US news is not the only undergrad ranking to use.

It's fine. It's probably a post from one of the Michigan Boosters who is upset that no one has talked about how graduating from U of M signals thatyou are a hard worker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top 20" is a euphemism and includes more than 20 schools. So CMU is top 20. Also US news is not the only undergrad ranking to use.

What are the good undergraduate rankings out there

US News and World Report is, unfortunately, the most reliable one out there.

WSJ/Times is just as good.

Is that undergraduate only ranking?
Looking shady.

USN&WR is the defacto standard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Top 20" is a euphemism and includes more than 20 schools. So CMU is top 20. Also US news is not the only undergrad ranking to use.

Says who?

I think the "20" in T20 is quite clear and objective.

(People don't say T20ish)

[Anonymous]

No.

Only for graduates from HSMYP and Caltech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top 20" is a euphemism and includes more than 20 schools. So CMU is top 20. Also US news is not the only undergrad ranking to use.

What are the good undergraduate rankings out there

The only good undergraduate ranking is the one you create for yourself. It's a huge decision and well worth the effort to get a list that matches your own needs and desires. Take a look at the criteria and weightings USNWR uses and see if they're anywhere close to what you would use if you were starting from scratch.

There's loads of data in the Common Data Sets, Princeton Review, USNWR, the college websites, etc. Your child's subjective ratings of each school are worth including, too. Have them give each school a rating of 1-10 on how much the like the location/campus, etc. Take what is useful and do it yourself!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this signaling still valid today, if it ever was to employers, future life partners etc, or has it been severely diluted because of how these elite colleges admit their undergraduate classes today

What is up with the rash of stupid questions in this forum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top 20" is a euphemism and includes more than 20 schools. So CMU is top 20. Also US news is not the only undergrad ranking to use.

What are the good undergraduate rankings out there

The only good undergraduate ranking is the one you create for yourself. It's a huge decision and well worth the effort to get a list that matches your own needs and desires. Take a look at the criteria and weightings USNWR uses and see if they're anywhere close to what you would use if you were starting from scratch.

There's loads of data in the Common Data Sets, Princeton Review, USNWR, the college websites, etc. Your child's subjective ratings of each school are worth including, too. Have them give each school a rating of 1-10 on how much the like the location/campus, etc. Take what is useful and do it yourself!

There are thousands of schools. You can't possible do it on your own.
You need to start somewhere for initial screending and coming down with a draft list.
These rankings are good sources for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top 20" is a euphemism and includes more than 20 schools. So CMU is top 20. Also US news is not the only undergrad ranking to use.

What are the good undergraduate rankings out there

The only good undergraduate ranking is the one you create for yourself. It's a huge decision and well worth the effort to get a list that matches your own needs and desires. Take a look at the criteria and weightings USNWR uses and see if they're anywhere close to what you would use if you were starting from scratch.

There's loads of data in the Common Data Sets, Princeton Review, USNWR, the college websites, etc. Your child's subjective ratings of each school are worth including, too. Have them give each school a rating of 1-10 on how much the like the location/campus, etc. Take what is useful and do it yourself!

There are thousands of schools. You can't possible do it on your own.
You need to start somewhere for initial screending and coming down with a draft list.
These rankings are good sources for that.

I definitely agree that you can't rank every college on your own, and that USNWR can be useful for initial screening. But you need to make sure you're not screening out colleges that might interest you b/c you're assuming anything below a certain number isn't strong enough academically. At least as important in narrowing it down might be your preferences for geography, school size, cost, proximity to a big city, availability of specific majors, and all sorts of other criteria for which USNWR doesn't offer any help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Top 20" is a euphemism and includes more than 20 schools. So CMU is top 20. Also US news is not the only undergrad ranking to use.

What are the good undergraduate rankings out there

The only good undergraduate ranking is the one you create for yourself. It's a huge decision and well worth the effort to get a list that matches your own needs and desires. Take a look at the criteria and weightings USNWR uses and see if they're anywhere close to what you would use if you were starting from scratch.

There's loads of data in the Common Data Sets, Princeton Review, USNWR, the college websites, etc. Your child's subjective ratings of each school are worth including, too. Have them give each school a rating of 1-10 on how much the like the location/campus, etc. Take what is useful and do it yourself!

There are thousands of schools. You can't possible do it on your own.
You need to start somewhere for initial screending and coming down with a draft list.
These rankings are good sources for that.

I definitely agree that you can't rank every college on your own, and that USNWR can be useful for initial screening. But you need to make sure you're not screening out colleges that might interest you b/c you're assuming anything below a certain number isn't strong enough academically. At least as important in narrowing it down might be your preferences for geography, school size, cost, proximity to a big city, availability of specific majors, and all sorts of other criteria for which USNWR doesn't offer any help.

Yes of course, so one of my kids actually chose #49 ranked school while also got in #28 and #38 ranked schools on USN&WR.
It was better school and better fit for the kid.

[Anonymous]

There have been academic studies on this. It seems to serve as a useful signal for minorities, who aren't generally taken seriously in society without stellar credentials. It seems to have no impact (controlling for ability, etc) for white males.

[Anonymous]

I always assume kids who graduate with engineering or physics degrees are smart and hardworking, regardless of the school, and this applies to a few other majors as well. Everyone else you have to talk to them, or, as a PP noted, look at their results from prior jobs.

I’ve served on a lot of hiring committees and have learned that a degree from a top 20 undergrad or law school alone, with a high gpa, is in no way a good predictor of job success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always assume kids who graduate with engineering or physics degrees are smart and hardworking, regardless of the school, and this applies to a few other majors as well. Everyone else you have to talk to them, or, as a PP noted, look at their results from prior jobs.

I’ve served on a lot of hiring committees and have learned that a degree from a top 20 undergrad or law school alone, with a high gpa, is in no way a good predictor of job success.

It's combination of the schools and fields of study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends. Is said student graduating with straight As and going on to a prestigious grad program? Yes. Is our student scraping by with a C average and living in mommy and daddy's basement 5 years later? Not so much.

+1. You can immediately tell who the high-flyers are: For one, they put SAT score, college GPA, dean's list, and Latin honors in their LinkedIn. Two, they have prestige internships and grad schools. The frauds hide all of the IQ and work-ethic indicators, try to drown it out with bogus campus involvement crap, have suspect jobs and slip to tier 2 or 3 grad schools.

[Anonymous]

So, your premise is that only the students at a handful of schools are smart and hardworking, and that no students at those same schools are coasting on something other than smarts and hard work?

Hmmm.

The reality is that generally, employers love middle class kids from state schools who achieve at those schools because they have something to prove and a long way to go to get where they want to be, so they work the hardest.

Employers want connected kids for their connections, not their work ethic.

[Anonymous]

Just because someone is smart and good at "school" does not necessarily mean that they will be good fit or asset in the workplace environment - and employers know and understand this. The idea that a degree will give you a leg up only holds if there is presence of another skill, personality trait or experience to suggest an applicant will thrive in the work environment.