Is getting a college degree just a huge scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But one of the biggest ones is the way Americans value jobs and professions. Because we are hyper-capitalist, we value jobs according to how much they pay. Jobs that pay the most are valued the most, not just by the people in those jobs but by everyone. We assume lawyers, people in finance, doctors, etc. are better and more important people because they get paid a lot of money. And thus we assume people working low-wage work are less worthwhile because they are doing low-wage work.

So everyone wants to go to college here because the highest paid jobs generally require higher education (most exceptions involve work that is either dangerous or very inconvenient). People look down on those without college degrees or people who do trade work because it's lower paid. There is little general appreciation for the idea that in order for society to function, we need people in all different roles. And then of course there is almost no social safety net to help ensure that people working in lower paid trade jobs still have a a good standard of living. All these decisions feed each other. It's a cultural issue.

If we had cultural values beyond money, it would be easier to see this. But at this point money an the pursuit of money is our most fundamental national principle.

hopefully, progressive will change that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
No one is really "full pay" at a nonprofit college; the endowment is helping to pay.

College rankings are something of a scam; a top-whatever school isn't generally that different from a school twenty points lower, and the lower-ranked school may be a better fit for a lot of kids.

Yes, I concur. The quality of education isn't that different, but the outcomes can be significantly different. Even among the T20, the Ivies and Stanford+MIT place much better (per capita) in top professional schools, finance, consulting, tech (generally the most profitable industries) over similarly ranked non-ivies and opens more doors to elite jobs. Top hedge funds, quant trading firms, private equity recruit ivy leaguers straight out of undergrad without even the need for a MBA.

But most people aren't going to get those jobs, and most people don't want them. The more interesting question to me is how financially secure students from across majors and backgrounds do

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bill mahre was talking about this on his show saying that people are paying a fortune on degrees, than waiting tables anyway, because it’s hard to find work. He also said most people don’t even need degrees. What are your thoughts?

Yes, it's a scam for many, many people who don't need college degrees. Many people can go into trades or professions where they need certificates, but not four year degrees. The waste of money on secondary education in this country is scandalous. Yes, college should be free. It's insane that you now pay $80K to go to Harvard, for example, for nine months. Most SLACS are close to that now. Boggles the mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends on what type of work you enjoy doing. Two of my sons love working Line Clearance (cutting trees off power lines). They did not go to college. They are foremen at the same company. Dangerous job, but someone has to keep the power on. I raised my kids to follow their hearts. My 18 yr old daughter decided to get a job and work and save $ and then decide whether or not she wanted to go to college. She is more interested in traveling than college. Another of my sons works for a military contractor. My youngest is planning to go to college so that he can enter the military as an Officer. To each, his own.

Right, but...traveling costs $$$. And, clearing tree lines is tough physical work especially at 45+ years old. My DH got sick and had to go through treatment but he can still do his desk job. I had to have shoulder surgery and it took months before I could use that arm again. Reaching overhead took the longest. But I only missed a day of work from my desk job. How long could your kids reasonably take off work for these types of situations (illnesses)?

This is a very good point and one very personal to me. I had 2 major surgeries this summer. The only reason I was able to get back to work after about a month was b/c I worked from home. I often thought about how someone who has more physical demands from their jobs would have handled recovery in my situation. I'm 6 mos. out with lots of pain and fatigue and still rehabbing. I cannot imagine doing so in a more demanding job (Physically).

Luckily I have good insurance and leave. But it still wasn't enough to cover several mos. at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College is not trade school.

It also shouldn't be judged by "ROI," but if you must look at college degree that way, just look at the difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads. It's significant.

So Biden has non-college grad's tax dollars pay off other people's college loans. If your statement is so true, explain that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College is not trade school.

It also shouldn't be judged by "ROI," but if you must look at college degree that way, just look at the difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads. It's significant.

So Biden has non-college grad's tax dollars pay off other people's college loans. If your statement is so true, explain that.

I am genuinely confused by the question. What does Biden's proposal (which I don't support), have to do with the significant "difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads.?" Maybe your question belongs in the Politics forum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College is not trade school.

It also shouldn't be judged by "ROI," but if you must look at college degree that way, just look at the difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads. It's significant.

So Biden has non-college grad's tax dollars pay off other people's college loans. If your statement is so true, explain that.

I am genuinely confused by the question. What does Biden's proposal (which I don't support), have to do with the significant "difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads.?" Maybe your question belongs in the Politics forum?

Why should those with "significant"ly more income have their student loans paid by those non-college grad taxes who make significantly less? You are saying Biden wants the poor to pay off the rich's student loans. If college degrees pay so much, why can't college graduates pay off their own loans? Or why aren't they getting paid off by alumni donors as opposed to hard-working, non-college grads?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College is not trade school.

It also shouldn't be judged by "ROI," but if you must look at college degree that way, just look at the difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads. It's significant.

So Biden has non-college grad's tax dollars pay off other people's college loans. If your statement is so true, explain that.

I am genuinely confused by the question. What does Biden's proposal (which I don't support), have to do with the significant "difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads.?" Maybe your question belongs in the Politics forum?

Why should those with "significant"ly more income have their student loans paid by those non-college grad taxes who make significantly less? You are saying Biden wants the poor to pay off the rich's student loans. If college degrees pay so much, why can't college graduates pay off their own loans? Or why aren't they getting paid off by alumni donors as opposed to hard-working, non-college grads?

I don't know why. Has zilch to do with the difference in salaries between college gards and non-college grads though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College is not trade school.

It also shouldn't be judged by "ROI," but if you must look at college degree that way, just look at the difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads. It's significant.

So Biden has non-college grad's tax dollars pay off other people's college loans. If your statement is so true, explain that.

I am genuinely confused by the question. What does Biden's proposal (which I don't support), have to do with the significant "difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads.?" Maybe your question belongs in the Politics forum?

Why should those with "significant"ly more income have their student loans paid by those non-college grad taxes who make significantly less? You are saying Biden wants the poor to pay off the rich's student loans. If college degrees pay so much, why can't college graduates pay off their own loans? Or why aren't they getting paid off by alumni donors as opposed to hard-working, non-college grads?

I don't know why. Has zilch to do with the difference in salaries between college gards and non-college grads though.

and of course if the loans are forgiven the difference in income between these two groups will become even greater.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College is not trade school.

It also shouldn't be judged by "ROI," but if you must look at college degree that way, just look at the difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads. It's significant.

So Biden has non-college grad's tax dollars pay off other people's college loans. If your statement is so true, explain that.

I am genuinely confused by the question. What does Biden's proposal (which I don't support), have to do with the significant "difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads.?" Maybe your question belongs in the Politics forum?

Why should those with "significant"ly more income have their student loans paid by those non-college grad taxes who make significantly less? You are saying Biden wants the poor to pay off the rich's student loans. If college degrees pay so much, why can't college graduates pay off their own loans? Or why aren't they getting paid off by alumni donors as opposed to hard-working, non-college grads?

most non-college grads don't earn enough to actually pay taxes.

[Anonymous]

Non college grad who earns 375-400,000 annually in sales. Never had student loan debt and have been on my own and saving since 19.

Will not be pushing my kids into college. If they want to go, great, ive saved for it. But I won’t be pushing them. The math on what 4 years of college at the SLAC i chose, vs the money I put away and compounded is substantial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The belief that most kids should go to college is a scam, yes.

I live and teach high school in Germany. Fewer than half of German high school students go to university because many people aren't suited to higher academic work and quality of university standards needs to be consistent across the country. Society needs and values people in the trades, like plumbers, electricians, hair stylists, etc, so there are appropriate specialised high schools where students best suited to those fields can receive training and apprenticeship support to successfully enter their chosen fields. We don't look down on the trades or try to encourage a child who isn't academic to struggle and strive for university at all costs with no backup plan here.

America has made university a business and everyone is catching on that US universities are not consistent in quality and weaker students who don't belong in university just pay to attend weaker universities. This is why university costs a fortune in America and is free in Germany.

This x 1000

[Anonymous]

I just can’t imagine a pathway for my daughters that doesn’t include college. What will they do after high school? Go to a trade school? For what? Carpentry? I know some kids would love this, and maybe one of mine would. But it also seems extremely limiting. I would not close the idea on college. In this country, a job applicant without a college degree is skipped over. The price is absolutely outrageous (for all) and our government needs to address this.

[Anonymous]

My friend is an electrical engineer. I don't think a person wiht just a high school education should be desiging circuit boards.

I'm a CFO. I don't think most people understand financial accounting, income statements, balance sheets, etc without learning that in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non college grad who earns 375-400,000 annually in sales. Never had student loan debt and have been on my own and saving since 19.

Will not be pushing my kids into college. If they want to go, great, ive saved for it. But I won’t be pushing them. The math on what 4 years of college at the SLAC i chose, vs the money I put away and compounded is substantial.

good for you. The average salary for someone with no college is 37k a year. I'm sure your kids will be just as exceptional as you are