Is getting a college degree just a huge scam?

[Anonymous]

A college degree itself is not a scam. A 300k college degree from a private college though is a total scam. But we’re able to pay to play so we’re doing it. As are a lot of the folks on this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bill mahre was talking about this on his show saying that people are paying a fortune on degrees, than waiting tables anyway, because it’s hard to find work. He also said most people don’t even need degrees. What are your thoughts?

"Top" US schools, full pay = scam.

Rest = depends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College is not trade school.

It also shouldn't be judged by "ROI," but if you must look at college degree that way, just look at the difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads. It's significant.

Take the college $ and invest it, then compare wealth of a college grad and a plumber,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The people in my family who went to college had fewer financial struggles. They had more options. They got to travel internationally.

I just think they had better quality lives.

My brother who builds house gave my brother who is a lawyer $100K cash to buy into his firm.

My BIL who renovates apartments: flour, paint, cabinets makes $800K/year.

[Anonymous]

I have an engineering degree from a state university. It was not a scam. At my state school, all engineers took the same courses for the first two years, before specializing. These courses were the base (advanced calculus, Newtonian physics, thermodynamics) needed to understand the material in later classes. I suspect that's partly why engineers like to talk to other engineers. We share a common language from our education. In the last two years, you specialized in your field of choice. I really couldn't work in my field without a BS. I have sometimes had to do some related work in other engineering fields, like mechanical, and the basic education with a good reference is usually enough. Part of engineering though, is knowing when you don't know and when to see better answers. Possibly, that's the point of education.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't call it a scam, but it is a gamble. And it depends a lot on what you want for your child, and what they want for themselves. I'm not sure that I can say that most of the people I know in "high paying careers" are overall any happier or healthier than those not in those careers.

And as I mentioned upthread, I think we are seeing a turn as a society. I don't think the pathway that many of us took through college and to a high-paying job is going to be nearly as certain in just a decade or two...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education isn't just a vocational undertaking. We want plumbers, sure. But we also want citizens. We want people who know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning.

Paying $30k/year to learn how to make widgets isn't really the best investment. But if you find a place that helps you land a higher paying job and teaches you what you need to know to be a more complete person, then it's a good investment.

This is a disgusting and demeaning point of view. Why would plumbers be less than "citizens" and why wouldn't someone who chose a trade like plumbing "know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning?"

Stop clutching your pearls, learn some critical reading skills, and recognize that the central point is that education should not be solely vocational. The relationship between education and being a capable citizen is fairly clear. For example, person who never learned much history is more easily manipulated by demagogues. If that reality hurts your feelings, that's too bad.

[Anonymous]

He has a good point there are a lot of useless expensive degrees from private colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He has a good point there are a lot of useless expensive degrees from private colleges.

Not just private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have an engineering degree from a state university. It was not a scam. At my state school, all engineers took the same courses for the first two years, before specializing. These courses were the base (advanced calculus, Newtonian physics, thermodynamics) needed to understand the material in later classes. I suspect that's partly why engineers like to talk to other engineers. We share a common language from our education. In the last two years, you specialized in your field of choice. I really couldn't work in my field without a BS. I have sometimes had to do some related work in other engineering fields, like mechanical, and the basic education with a good reference is usually enough. Part of engineering though, is knowing when you don't know and when to see better answers. Possibly, that's the point of education.

. I too have an engineering degree from a state university. Biggest waste of my life. Hurts me at career fairs ("Did you to UVa to drink and slack off?") and financially if I'd dropped out and got stock options it would be extremely likely I'd retired at 25. Went through all kinds of abuse that still scars me today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College is not trade school.

It also shouldn't be judged by "ROI," but if you must look at college degree that way, just look at the difference in salary/income earned by college grads vs. non-college grads. It's significant.

Take the college $ and invest it, then compare wealth of a college grad and a plumber,

You first. Meanwhile, I'll go ahead and have my kids get a college degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He has a good point there are a lot of useless expensive degrees from private colleges.

Depends on how you define "useless" -- in any major offered by an expensive private college, you learn deep cultural traditions that many of us find more valuable than sales figures and marketing techniques and whatnot. Learning from people who are the foremost experts to read carefully, think critically and expansively, and write well. I credit my anthropology degree which is in many ways useless for a great deal of the value and the skills that made me successful. What is life for anyway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Education isn't just a vocational undertaking. We want plumbers, sure. But we also want citizens. We want people who know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning.

Paying $30k/year to learn how to make widgets isn't really the best investment. But if you find a place that helps you land a higher paying job and teaches you what you need to know to be a more complete person, then it's a good investment.

This is a disgusting and demeaning point of view. Why would plumbers be less than "citizens" and why wouldn't someone who chose a trade like plumbing "know how to live life with a sense of purpose and meaning?"

Stop clutching your pearls, learn some critical reading skills, and recognize that the central point is that education should not be solely vocational. The relationship between education and being a capable citizen is fairly clear. For example, person who never learned much history is more easily manipulated by demagogues. If that reality hurts your feelings, that's too bad.

So what about "live life with a sense of purpose and meaning"? Can you help me connect that one with the needed history lesson to understand demagogues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bill mahre was talking about this on his show saying that people are paying a fortune on degrees, than waiting tables anyway, because it’s hard to find work. He also said most people don’t even need degrees. What are your thoughts?

"Top" US schools, full pay = scam.

Rest = depends.

Full pay for non T20-30 privates are a scam, big time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The belief that most kids should go to college is a scam, yes.

I live and teach high school in Germany. Fewer than half of German high school students go to university because many people aren't suited to higher academic work and quality of university standards needs to be consistent across the country. Society needs and values people in the trades, like plumbers, electricians, hair stylists, etc, so there are appropriate specialised high schools where students best suited to those fields can receive training and apprenticeship support to successfully enter their chosen fields. We don't look down on the trades or try to encourage a child who isn't academic to struggle and strive for university at all costs with no backup plan here.

America has made university a business and everyone is catching on that US universities are not consistent in quality and weaker students who don't belong in university just pay to attend weaker universities. This is why university costs a fortune in America and is free in Germany.

Not quite. Would you like your child tracked at 5th grade for the rest of their life with a high stakes exam? (I.e around 10). Germany has some advantages but the draconian tracking to a gymnasium (the Blair Magnet of Blair Magnets) seems a bit too much to me. Now their intense focus on math - and literally minimum focus on writing seems spot on for a modern economy - at both university and trade schools.