That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

Some of the comments have been eye opening. Just out of curiosity PP and other PPs who are defending Brock or assigning equal blame on the victim, are you male or female?

Who has assigned "equal blame" on both Brock and the victim? Which posts?

Maybe not equal blame, but posts who mention that she (and women generally) played a role because of dress, intoxication, flirtation.... you get the picture.

She played a role. I'm sorry. She drank herself into oblivion, was kissing a 19 year old horny college guy and then left the party with him.

She was black out drunk (she did that to herself). she kissed this guy (her choice), she left the party with this guy that she did not know (her choice) presumably to go kiss him some more (why else would should leave with him).

She did not deserve to be sexually assaulted but there is some gray in this situation because IF she went behind that dumpster willingly and was fooling around willingly then she had opened the door to this guy touching her body in a sexual way. Did she protest? Did he ask permission? We don't know because she blacked out and passed out and has no memory of that night.

The info that got this guy convicted came from the Swedes. How long had she been passed out? 10 minutes or 10 seconds? We don't know.

We do know that whatever the Swedes saw alarmed them enough to get off of their bikes, chase and tackle this guy. The Swedes are the credible witnesses here and I have yet to see what their statements say. We have yet to see the police report. I feel terrible for this young woman - she has been through hell. But she absolutely did play a role in putting herself in that hellish situation because part of what made it so awful was the fact that she was passed out drunk and could not be a witness for herself. This isn't about blaming her for being sexually assaulted - that is her assailant's doing, this is about how she compounded the hellishness of it all by being passed out DRUNK and not knowing what exactly even happened to her.

When she woke up in that hospital she had know idea if she had been gang raped by drug addicts. She didn't know. That is scary.

You don't know that she drank herself to that level.... you don't know. find the video of her doing 20 shots, fine, but my bet is on him being given a sick bastard and preying on her to drink or spiking drinks... she did not do that. she was waiting for her sister.

I thought he was all over that party hitting on anything in a skirt - and getting rejected right and left. And then Emily Doe was too drunk to resist him so that's why she went off with him.

But now you're saying that this guy was spending the evening plying Emily Doe with spiked drinks? Interesting. Has any ever suggested that he got her drunk? Honestly I think that you are the first one to suggest this.

he was kicked out of a party the week before for doing it to women. he is a sick individual. not sure where I read that, but it will come out. he was kicked out of a campus frat party for being too aggressive and stalking a woman trying to get her to drink more and more, and he got kicked out before anything happened.

Well that is definitely relevant information. If this guy has a pattern of this type of behavior that is important to know. That doesn't come across as a typical frat party moron at all.

It is relevant, and hearsay. As is saying that others saw them together before they left. Relevant, and hearsay.

He was originally charged with regular old rape, but they dropped that charge, possibly because they knew it wouldn't stick.

I'm not a lawyer but how on earth is a pattern of behavior like that not admissible in court? It seems that witnesses could verify if this guy was aggressive against women at frat parties,stalking, hitting on them and trying to get them drunk to the point where he was kicked out of the parties. It takes some pretty blatant out of line behavior to get your arse kicked out of a drinking party. Is that gossip or did this guy really have a pattern of serious issues???

The previous poster is wrong that it is hearsay but likely correct that it is not admissible. Generally speaking, you can't present past actions in court to show that a defendant conformed with those actions on this particular occasion. The reason is that the jury will over-emphasize those facts relative to their probative value. (Consider, for example, if a jury would EVER acquit someone for murder if they heard that the person had murdered a different person before, which is only somewhat relevant to whether they murdered this particular person.) If the prosecution were allowed to bring up a previous rape attempt, they could basically get anyone who had ever attempted a rape convicted of any rape they wanted to. There are a lot of exceptions to this rule, but none that are obvious relevant here. The most likely way this could have come in at trial is as impeachment since this guy apparently testified and a good prosecutor would get him to say something that this information contradicts, making it admissible. This is one of the main reasons why it is very rare for defendants to testify on their own behalf. A lot of stuff that is otherwise inadmissible can come in.

Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense. But this is so frustrating because the pattern here....makes you feel like this girl was a sitting duck.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

Some of the comments have been eye opening. Just out of curiosity PP and other PPs who are defending Brock or assigning equal blame on the victim, are you male or female?

Who has assigned "equal blame" on both Brock and the victim? Which posts?

Maybe not equal blame, but posts who mention that she (and women generally) played a role because of dress, intoxication, flirtation.... you get the picture.

She played a role. I'm sorry. She drank herself into oblivion, was kissing a 19 year old horny college guy and then left the party with him.

She was black out drunk (she did that to herself). she kissed this guy (her choice), she left the party with this guy that she did not know (her choice) presumably to go kiss him some more (why else would should leave with him).

She did not deserve to be sexually assaulted but there is some gray in this situation because IF she went behind that dumpster willingly and was fooling around willingly then she had opened the door to this guy touching her body in a sexual way. Did she protest? Did he ask permission? We don't know because she blacked out and passed out and has no memory of that night.

The info that got this guy convicted came from the Swedes. How long had she been passed out? 10 minutes or 10 seconds? We don't know.

We do know that whatever the Swedes saw alarmed them enough to get off of their bikes, chase and tackle this guy. The Swedes are the credible witnesses here and I have yet to see what their statements say. We have yet to see the police report. I feel terrible for this young woman - she has been through hell. But she absolutely did play a role in putting herself in that hellish situation because part of what made it so awful was the fact that she was passed out drunk and could not be a witness for herself. This isn't about blaming her for being sexually assaulted - that is her assailant's doing, this is about how she compounded the hellishness of it all by being passed out DRUNK and not knowing what exactly even happened to her.

When she woke up in that hospital she had know idea if she had been gang raped by drug addicts. She didn't know. That is scary.

You don't know that she drank herself to that level.... you don't know. find the video of her doing 20 shots, fine, but my bet is on him being given a sick bastard and preying on her to drink or spiking drinks... she did not do that. she was waiting for her sister.

I thought he was all over that party hitting on anything in a skirt - and getting rejected right and left. And then Emily Doe was too drunk to resist him so that's why she went off with him.

But now you're saying that this guy was spending the evening plying Emily Doe with spiked drinks? Interesting. Has any ever suggested that he got her drunk? Honestly I think that you are the first one to suggest this.

he was kicked out of a party the week before for doing it to women. he is a sick individual. not sure where I read that, but it will come out. he was kicked out of a campus frat party for being too aggressive and stalking a woman trying to get her to drink more and more, and he got kicked out before anything happened.

Well that is definitely relevant information. If this guy has a pattern of this type of behavior that is important to know. That doesn't come across as a typical frat party moron at all.

It is relevant, and hearsay. As is saying that others saw them together before they left. Relevant, and hearsay.

He was originally charged with regular old rape, but they dropped that charge, possibly because they knew it wouldn't stick.

I'm not a lawyer but how on earth is a pattern of behavior like that not admissible in court? It seems that witnesses could verify if this guy was aggressive against women at frat parties,stalking, hitting on them and trying to get them drunk to the point where he was kicked out of the parties. It takes some pretty blatant out of line behavior to get your arse kicked out of a drinking party. Is that gossip or did this guy really have a pattern of serious issues???

The previous poster is wrong that it is hearsay but likely correct that it is not admissible. Generally speaking, you can't present past actions in court to show that a defendant conformed with those actions on this particular occasion. The reason is that the jury will over-emphasize those facts relative to their probative value. (Consider, for example, if a jury would EVER acquit someone for murder if they heard that the person had murdered a different person before, which is only somewhat relevant to whether they murdered this particular person.) If the prosecution were allowed to bring up a previous rape attempt, they could basically get anyone who had ever attempted a rape convicted of any rape they wanted to. There are a lot of exceptions to this rule, but none that are obvious relevant here. The most likely way this could have come in at trial is as impeachment since this guy apparently testified and a good prosecutor would get him to say something that this information contradicts, making it admissible. This is one of the main reasons why it is very rare for defendants to testify on their own behalf. A lot of stuff that is otherwise inadmissible can come in.

Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense. But this is so frustrating because the pattern here....makes you feel like this girl was a sitting duck.

Or an anteleope.

Or a woman who made some choices and had some bad things happen to her.

[Anonymous]

COULD YOU PEOPLE PLEASE TRIM YOUR POSTS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:COULD YOU PEOPLE PLEASE TRIM YOUR POSTS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
thanks.

I was thinking the same thing!!!

[Anonymous]

Wonder if those rumors could have been used at sentencing. People wrote letter saying how nice he was. Could the other lucky ladies he hit on share their stories too? Informally in a letter. Anonymously even?

[Anonymous]

Emily Doe's poor choices that night are still her responsibility. However, if this guy has a known history of being particularly aggressive towards women then this was no average dumb drunken college kid looking to get laid. It makes me think of how Jessie Matthews, the guy who abducted/murdered Hannah Graham, had a pattern of being unusually aggressive towards women at bars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wonder if those rumors could have been used at sentencing. People wrote letter saying how nice he was. Could the other lucky ladies he hit on share their stories too? Informally in a letter. Anonymously even?

That's an extremely complicated question of Constitutional law that the Supreme Court has sort of addressed several times in the past decade. The short answer is "sometimes, but not always."

[Anonymous]

Where did someone head he had a history of aggressive behavior with women? I hadn't seen that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where did someone head he had a history of aggressive behavior with women? I hadn't seen that.

It's third or fourth hand internet gossip. Could be true, could not be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In fact, the accusation was "helping rapists rape."

3r here. This isnot the first time a poster has accused others of being rape supporters, victim blamers and enablers. Some of us are getting a bit tired of it.

Being told that you're "helping rapists" is also not persuasive. That accusation was made more than once this afternoon.

Yes x3, it's getting very tiresome. Somehow if we are not all 100% anti Brock in every single one of our comments then we support him. And "help rapists rape". Ridiculous and over the top insulting.

Yes, he did some very bad things. He is being punished for them. Good. But there ARE other lessons here to be learned.

Don't rape.
Be careful.
Help others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In fact, the accusation was "helping rapists rape."

3r here. This isnot the first time a poster has accused others of being rape supporters, victim blamers and enablers. Some of us are getting a bit tired of it.

Being told that you're "helping rapists" is also not persuasive. That accusation was made more than once this afternoon.

Yes x3, it's getting very tiresome. Somehow if we are not all 100% anti Brock in every single one of our comments then we support him. And "help rapists rape". Ridiculous and over the top insulting.

Yes, he did some very bad things. He is being punished for them. Good. But there ARE other lessons here to be learned.

Don't rape.
Be careful.
Help others.

We heard you the first 10 times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In fact, the accusation was "helping rapists rape."

3r here. This isnot the first time a poster has accused others of being rape supporters, victim blamers and enablers. Some of us are getting a bit tired of it.

Being told that you're "helping rapists" is also not persuasive. That accusation was made more than once this afternoon.

Yes x3, it's getting very tiresome. Somehow if we are not all 100% anti Brock in every single one of our comments then we support him. And "help rapists rape". Ridiculous and over the top insulting.

Yes, he did some very bad things. He is being punished for them. Good. But there ARE other lessons here to be learned.

Don't rape.
Be careful.
Help others.

We heard you the first 10 times.

Oh really? And I bet it still sounds like I'm helping rapists rape, huh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In fact, the accusation was "helping rapists rape."

3r here. This isnot the first time a poster has accused others of being rape supporters, victim blamers and enablers. Some of us are getting a bit tired of it.

Being told that you're "helping rapists" is also not persuasive. That accusation was made more than once this afternoon.

Yes x3, it's getting very tiresome. Somehow if we are not all 100% anti Brock in every single one of our comments then we support him. And "help rapists rape". Ridiculous and over the top insulting.

Yes, he did some very bad things. He is being punished for them. Good. But there ARE other lessons here to be learned.

Don't rape.
Be careful.
Help others.

We heard you the first 10 times.

Oh really? And I bet it still sounds like I'm helping rapists rape, huh?

You just keep repeating yourself like you're saying something profound, and it's annoying me. I don't think it's profound at all; I think it's simplistic. And I don't think you get why saying "be careful" in this context is lame. Of course, everyone should be careful. You don't think the victim wishes she'd been more careful? You can't read the story without thinking, gosh, I should be more careful. But it's shitty to say it, because she paid 1000000 times over for her "carelessness." And nobody deserves what happened to her. And when you do what you're doing, which is assign guilt, you're telling every single person that reads your words that if they're raped, they should go over what they did and think about they're role in it.

[Anonymous]

this case is not black and white.

was she hooking up with him, 2nd base, 3rd base, before she passed out?

did he know that she had passed out during the hook up?

they were both EXTREMELY wasted.

and of course his father will try to defend him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this case is not black and white.actually it might be

was she hooking up with him, 2nd base, 3rd base, before she passed out?no

did he know that she had passed out during the hook up?he had to have known or should've known. Two strangers could tell

they were both EXTREMELY wasted.except he wasn't unconscious

and of course his father will try to defend him.

yup