Airplane noise concerns overblown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s your neighborhood?

We're in Bethesda, a couple of blocks from the DC line.

so are we, right off Mass Ave in Westmoreland Hills and this has never once bothered us. I truly can't comprehend how this is an issue. Do you sleep with every window open and in complete silence. Does your home have a roof?

If this somehow bothers you, why don't you move? You live a block from one of the busiest cities in the world. What do you expect? Quiet skies? That's what Cumberland is for.

I have a roof. My windows are closed. If I could post a recording of the jet currently flying over my house, I would.

I don't expect silence. But what I'd like is approximately the noise level that existed when we moved here. The uptick is noticeable to my out-of-town family who complained that they couldn't sleep, and they've been visiting me here for 25 years without ever commenting on it.

I kinda doubt that you live where you say you live.

I promise you I live right near the park. Invest in a better roof and insulation? You expect the noise to be the same it was TWENTY FIVE years ago?? Are you kidding. Your generation has lost it. DC was a totally different animal pre-9/11. The growth and sprawl has exponentially increase and you live right near the heart of it. I can't believe people think this wouldn't change in 25 years..

DC metro had a population of 3.8M in 1999 and now it's just under 6M. Do you not expect increased flights with a 50% increase in population?

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/23174/washington-dc/population

Changing roof and insulation is cost prohibitive for most people. Also, people move to SFHs to enjoy private outdoor space. If planes fly constantly you cannot sit outside or play outside in your own yard or a deck. Maybe turning the entire metro area into an airway highway by means of having a super busy airport smack in teh middle of it is not a good idea?

...you still aren't addressing the fact that you chose to live 500 yards from the DC line, right along the Potomac river, a few miles from DCA.

People move to SFHs in the far out suburbs for quiet and tranquility. They live where you live for a bit more space and convenience (which has pros and cons).

This is a minority view that is peddled by the Montgomery County delegation on the Community Working Group representing one small wealthy area of Potomac. It was not always that way. When they started getting involved with the Working Group they asked the FAA to move the waypoint for arriving airplanes from Potomac to areas further north with less population density. When that was rejected by the FAA they needed a new idea. That's when the closer in and therefore more densely populated areas suddenly became the target.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, that’s just ridiculous. Maybe read the last 59 pages for why this is legitimately a concern. It is also the case that there is a proven correlation with gradual hearing loss but that doesn’t lessen the effects of daily pollution exposure

The entire DC area is polluted in this case. We have 2 major airports here. DC flights go all over the place and many of them fly relatively low even far inland over suburban areas miles from the airport. Never understood this.

Not at all. Not to repeat the science, you can read the threads or google it.
Also, the idea that you shouldn’t be able to sleep with an open window in a multimillion $$ house or any house is very warped.

...you can, just not in a major city! Would you complain about not sleeping with a window open in Midtown Manhattan?

I’ve done it and it doesn’t compare. I’ll take Manhattan over Macarthur any day or night. Anyway, it’s not the noise that will get you before your time according to the most recent science on this topic. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

2:17 AM, plane just flew over in Bethesda. Are they even allowed to take off at this time of night/morning? Yes, gaslighting PP, the windows are CLOSED. Roof was replaced 5 years ago. I know that I've become a light sleeper as I've gotten older. But my hearing has gotten worse also. I'm going to have to start sleeping with ear plugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2:17 AM, plane just flew over in Bethesda. Are they even allowed to take off at this time of night/morning? Yes, gaslighting PP, the windows are CLOSED. Roof was replaced 5 years ago. I know that I've become a light sleeper as I've gotten older. But my hearing has gotten worse also. I'm going to have to start sleeping with ear plugs.

PP, are you by any chance somewhere East of Persimmon Tree Road? Perhaps Carderock Springs? I might be able to tell you what's happening.

Unfortunately, they can fly to and out of DCA 24/7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2:17 AM, plane just flew over in Bethesda. Are they even allowed to take off at this time of night/morning? Yes, gaslighting PP, the windows are CLOSED. Roof was replaced 5 years ago. I know that I've become a light sleeper as I've gotten older. But my hearing has gotten worse also. I'm going to have to start sleeping with ear plugs.

703-417-1204 is the number for Noise Information Office at the airport. Please ask why you suddenly have airplanes over your community and let us know the response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2:17 AM, plane just flew over in Bethesda. Are they even allowed to take off at this time of night/morning? Yes, gaslighting PP, the windows are CLOSED. Roof was replaced 5 years ago. I know that I've become a light sleeper as I've gotten older. But my hearing has gotten worse also. I'm going to have to start sleeping with ear plugs.

And air filter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think there's any winning about the DCA flight patterns. Whatever they do, someone has to listen to this (as I am at 11:44 pm at night). The working group should advocate for moving as many flights as possible to Dulles and BWI.

I never thought I'd want to sell our house and move. But as soon as our last kid graduates high school in a couple of years, I think that's where I am. Such a shame. I love our neighborhood and DC.

Dulles airport needs a major revamp to handle more traffic. Their older terminals are a shame with these stupid little buses taking you to the plane. I think they can do better distributing DCA traffic in all directions and not targeting specific areas and completely skipping others. It would be better to have fewer flights from there and more from Dulles that's also metro accessible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s your neighborhood?

We're in Bethesda, a couple of blocks from the DC line.

so are we, right off Mass Ave in Westmoreland Hills and this has never once bothered us. I truly can't comprehend how this is an issue. Do you sleep with every window open and in complete silence. Does your home have a roof?

If this somehow bothers you, why don't you move? You live a block from one of the busiest cities in the world. What do you expect? Quiet skies? That's what Cumberland is for.

I have a roof. My windows are closed. If I could post a recording of the jet currently flying over my house, I would.

I don't expect silence. But what I'd like is approximately the noise level that existed when we moved here. The uptick is noticeable to my out-of-town family who complained that they couldn't sleep, and they've been visiting me here for 25 years without ever commenting on it.

I kinda doubt that you live where you say you live.

I promise you I live right near the park. Invest in a better roof and insulation? You expect the noise to be the same it was TWENTY FIVE years ago?? Are you kidding. Your generation has lost it. DC was a totally different animal pre-9/11. The growth and sprawl has exponentially increase and you live right near the heart of it. I can't believe people think this wouldn't change in 25 years..

DC metro had a population of 3.8M in 1999 and now it's just under 6M. Do you not expect increased flights with a 50% increase in population?

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/23174/washington-dc/population

Changing roof and insulation is cost prohibitive for most people. Also, people move to SFHs to enjoy private outdoor space. If planes fly constantly you cannot sit outside or play outside in your own yard or a deck. Maybe turning the entire metro area into an airway highway by means of having a super busy airport smack in teh middle of it is not a good idea?

...you still aren't addressing the fact that you chose to live 500 yards from the DC line, right along the Potomac river, a few miles from DCA.

People move to SFHs in the far out suburbs for quiet and tranquility. They live where you live for a bit more space and convenience (which has pros and cons).

IDK what you are talking about. Planes fly way inland and rather low. They even fly over the CIA which I would think is a restricted area? You can hear planes in DT Mclean, which is not anywhere near Potomac or close to the airport. IDK why the hell they fly so low. And no, it's not just nearby neighborhoods or areas along the Potomac. It's residential burbs inland too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s your neighborhood?

We're in Bethesda, a couple of blocks from the DC line.

so are we, right off Mass Ave in Westmoreland Hills and this has never once bothered us. I truly can't comprehend how this is an issue. Do you sleep with every window open and in complete silence. Does your home have a roof?

If this somehow bothers you, why don't you move? You live a block from one of the busiest cities in the world. What do you expect? Quiet skies? That's what Cumberland is for.

I have a roof. My windows are closed. If I could post a recording of the jet currently flying over my house, I would.

I don't expect silence. But what I'd like is approximately the noise level that existed when we moved here. The uptick is noticeable to my out-of-town family who complained that they couldn't sleep, and they've been visiting me here for 25 years without ever commenting on it.

I kinda doubt that you live where you say you live.

I promise you I live right near the park. Invest in a better roof and insulation? You expect the noise to be the same it was TWENTY FIVE years ago?? Are you kidding. Your generation has lost it. DC was a totally different animal pre-9/11. The growth and sprawl has exponentially increase and you live right near the heart of it. I can't believe people think this wouldn't change in 25 years..

DC metro had a population of 3.8M in 1999 and now it's just under 6M. Do you not expect increased flights with a 50% increase in population?

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/23174/washington-dc/population

Changing roof and insulation is cost prohibitive for most people. Also, people move to SFHs to enjoy private outdoor space. If planes fly constantly you cannot sit outside or play outside in your own yard or a deck. Maybe turning the entire metro area into an airway highway by means of having a super busy airport smack in teh middle of it is not a good idea?

...you still aren't addressing the fact that you chose to live 500 yards from the DC line, right along the Potomac river, a few miles from DCA.

People move to SFHs in the far out suburbs for quiet and tranquility. They live where you live for a bit more space and convenience (which has pros and cons).

IDK what you are talking about. Planes fly way inland and rather low. They even fly over the CIA which I would think is a restricted area? You can hear planes in DT Mclean, which is not anywhere near Potomac or close to the airport. IDK why the hell they fly so low. And no, it's not just nearby neighborhoods or areas along the Potomac. It's residential burbs inland too.

McLean or Potomac isn’t far out

Live in Olney or Clifton if you want quiet

[Anonymous]

Why? Right here in DC, there are two no fly zones. They are quiet. If $ doesn’t stretch to Woodley Park, EOTP is very quiet too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s your neighborhood?

We're in Bethesda, a couple of blocks from the DC line.

so are we, right off Mass Ave in Westmoreland Hills and this has never once bothered us. I truly can't comprehend how this is an issue. Do you sleep with every window open and in complete silence. Does your home have a roof?

If this somehow bothers you, why don't you move? You live a block from one of the busiest cities in the world. What do you expect? Quiet skies? That's what Cumberland is for.

I have a roof. My windows are closed. If I could post a recording of the jet currently flying over my house, I would.

I don't expect silence. But what I'd like is approximately the noise level that existed when we moved here. The uptick is noticeable to my out-of-town family who complained that they couldn't sleep, and they've been visiting me here for 25 years without ever commenting on it.

I kinda doubt that you live where you say you live.

I promise you I live right near the park. Invest in a better roof and insulation? You expect the noise to be the same it was TWENTY FIVE years ago?? Are you kidding. Your generation has lost it. DC was a totally different animal pre-9/11. The growth and sprawl has exponentially increase and you live right near the heart of it. I can't believe people think this wouldn't change in 25 years..

DC metro had a population of 3.8M in 1999 and now it's just under 6M. Do you not expect increased flights with a 50% increase in population?

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/cities/23174/washington-dc/population

Changing roof and insulation is cost prohibitive for most people. Also, people move to SFHs to enjoy private outdoor space. If planes fly constantly you cannot sit outside or play outside in your own yard or a deck. Maybe turning the entire metro area into an airway highway by means of having a super busy airport smack in teh middle of it is not a good idea?

...you still aren't addressing the fact that you chose to live 500 yards from the DC line, right along the Potomac river, a few miles from DCA.

People move to SFHs in the far out suburbs for quiet and tranquility. They live where you live for a bit more space and convenience (which has pros and cons).

IDK what you are talking about. Planes fly way inland and rather low. They even fly over the CIA which I would think is a restricted area? You can hear planes in DT Mclean, which is not anywhere near Potomac or close to the airport. IDK why the hell they fly so low. And no, it's not just nearby neighborhoods or areas along the Potomac. It's residential burbs inland too.

The CIA is not a prohibited area.

All the recent changes in flight paths have been spearheaded by the Community Working Groups at DCA. Are you referring to arrivals or departures?

[Anonymous]

Maybe it's the clear air, but I've notice a lot more airplane noise the past few weeks in AU Park (near Turtle Park). I assume it is still northbound flights along the river and the noise reaches here, and am not complaining (I know it's not even close to being along the river), but something seems different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been listening to the planes all night while trying to read. It's miserable. Tried talking to "the working group" and basically was gaslighted that this noise is all in my head.

I appreciated the PP who said that he hears it and his wife doesn't. Same. Doesn't bother my husband in the least because he's a little hard of hearing at 67. He wants to move to Georgetown (even worse than our neighborhood) and I told him to forget it.

I think the only solution is to drastically scale down the number of flights in and out of DCA.

Speaking of gaslighting on the Working Group, here's an email sent by the Montgomery County reps to a resident who observed that the change in the flight path pushed through by the Working Group shifted airplanes closer to other communities. The Working Group reps claim it is not possible for the human eye to notice that. Here's their e-mail:

"determining the location (ground track) from the ground by a single observer is next to impossible. The observer would need a theodolite and would have to work in concert with other observers, also with theodolites. There are so many factors working against s single observer, the best that can be done is to get a casual idea of what’s going on.

For example, it would be natural to look at which way the nose of the aircraft is pointing and assume that’s the direction it is flying. However, that’s not the case. The winds can cause the pilot to turn the plane into the direction of the wind to maintain course.
(similar to a boat on a lake). This presents a confusing picture from the ground.

Also, it's hard to distinguish distance to the plane — simply because our personal reference frame can’t deal with how big the planes are. Through our life we get pretty good at it because we naturally get trained to the size of things - people, cars, horses, etc. and their distance from us. The average person doesn’t live in an environment of big stuff and doesn’t get trained accordingly. This also fuzzies up our perception."


Gaslighting at its finest.

They responded to us in a similar manner when we complained about an increase in noise in bethesda. We were told that a human ear cannot possibly detect a small increase in airplane noise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your observations are correct.

At the request of Potomac residents on the dca noise community working group and Montgomery county the flight path for departures heading north and west was shifted to over the river and closer to Westmoreland Hills. It started in 2021. Your community was not consulted. In fact, the FAA opened a comment period for Montgomery county residents to provide input on the change, but your county representatives decided not to tell you about it.

Bethesda was not the only community thrown under the bus. Spring Valley was also affected.

The noise analysis that was done showed a noise increase in areas as far away as Chevy Chase on the east side of River road as well as areas in DC near the MD border. I am surprised the representatives from DC on the working group agreed to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your observations are correct.

At the request of Potomac residents on the dca noise community working group and Montgomery county the flight path for departures heading north and west was shifted to over the river and closer to Westmoreland Hills. It started in 2021. Your community was not consulted. In fact, the FAA opened a comment period for Montgomery county residents to provide input on the change, but your county representatives decided not to tell you about it.

As stated above, at the request of the DCA Working group the westerly flight path was moved from noise compatible area in Virginia towards the river and closer to the heavily populated communities in Bethesda. It did not provide any noise reduction for Bethesda but it only made things worse.

We are learning that a crash over water presents the worst case scenario. Perhaps this is something that can be taken into account by the Working Group when pushing for flight path changes in the future. There are instances when it makes sense to move the flight path to the river, but this 2021 change is not one of them.

This is actually a question for the NTSB.