Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the focus on race is outdated, if anything it should be that kids who come from less means; rural poverty, inner city low income situations get a bump in admissions if they have stats that would otherwise put them in the bottom 25 percent of typical admits. That is what will bring real diversity to campuses. A poor white kid from appalachia who worked their butt off in school brings more diversity of life experience than a black kid who went to GDS, vacations on Martha's Vineyard and is full pay.
Racial diversity was very much needed 20 years ago on college campuses but now they need to focus on economic diversity. The colleges will continue to admit a variety of racial groups because there are thousands "URM" who will still get in without their race being considered. They have the merits.

UC system in the 1990s tried the "economic diversity" approach hoping that they'd increase the number of blacks and Hispanics but what they got were a lot of Eastern Europeans and Vietnamese. As that wasn't the kind of "diversity" they were looking for, they dropped it.

Well what's wrong with Eastern Europeans and Vietnamese? The whole point of what I was saying is that you admit without trying to engineer the racial result and only admit those who have the merit to attend, but give a bump to those who come from low income situations. The sad issue is that there are populations of Blacks and Hispanics in S. CA that don't have good public school systems from preschool-HS. That needs to be fixed but those kids should not get into UCLA because of their race above an eastern european or a low income white kid from bakersfield who is actually prepared academically to go to that UC.

So you think a student from one of those terrible schools with a score 300 points below a rich prep kids should not get into UCLA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

Actually the high scorers who were a tiny bit lower than the top scorers did work harder at something, many things… community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Because of their hard work they were chosen over your kid who studied hard but was not willing to put the hard work in where it counts.

Your kid really just needs to step it up and do more and be better.

Do you know a lot of Asians. At my highly competitive area, the Asian kids are on varsity and ranked athletes, hold leadership positions in competitive clubs, going to national competitions, participating in and winning awards across a range of the arts, have a gazillion volunteer hours… on top of doing well academically. Your notion of the Asian student who only studies is a very outdated (and racist) one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

Actually the high scorers who were a tiny bit lower than the top scorers did work harder at something, many things… community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Because of their hard work they were chosen over your kid who studied hard but was not willing to put the hard work in where it counts.

Your kid really just needs to step it up and do more and be better.

how do you know this?

And actually, those Asian American students who have top scores also did many things ... community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Apparently, they do so well at all these things, that they have to score higher and do more than certain other groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

I really do not understand why this is a mystery. Asians study 4x more hours than Blacks. That is a massive difference. It would be really peculiar if that didn't affect scores.

So you are saying Asians need to study 4x harder than blacks to get a minuscule higher score ? Are you saying that they are not very smart and they need to work way harder than the normal student, because their grades are no anywhere near 4x higher.

Asians study much harder and get massively higher scores, especially at the right hand side of the curve.

By this admission, since I got a 1420 after taking the SAT once. I should get admitted to Harvard too!

Ill take the being paid more than everyone else ( https://www.vox.com/2016/7/6/12081082/wage-gap-race) but again, I dont see the emphasis on discriminatory pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

Actually the high scorers who were a tiny bit lower than the top scorers did work harder at something, many things… community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Because of their hard work they were chosen over your kid who studied hard but was not willing to put the hard work in where it counts.

Your kid really just needs to step it up and do more and be better.

Do you know a lot of Asians. At my highly competitive area, the Asian kids are on varsity and ranked athletes, hold leadership positions in competitive clubs, going to national competitions, participating in and winning awards across a range of the arts, have a gazillion volunteer hours… on top of doing well academically. Your notion of the Asian student who only studies is a very outdated (and racist) one.

exactly.. yet, I'm sure the ^PP thinks they are so enlightened and not racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

Actually the high scorers who were a tiny bit lower than the top scorers did work harder at something, many things… community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Because of their hard work they were chosen over your kid who studied hard but was not willing to put the hard work in where it counts.

Your kid really just needs to step it up and do more and be better.

Do you know a lot of Asians. At my highly competitive area, the Asian kids are on varsity and ranked athletes, hold leadership positions in competitive clubs, going to national competitions, participating in and winning awards across a range of the arts, have a gazillion volunteer hours… on top of doing well academically. Your notion of the Asian student who only studies is a very outdated (and racist) one.

How are they able to accomplish all of that? Not intellectually...monetarily, time, etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the focus on race is outdated, if anything it should be that kids who come from less means; rural poverty, inner city low income situations get a bump in admissions if they have stats that would otherwise put them in the bottom 25 percent of typical admits. That is what will bring real diversity to campuses. A poor white kid from appalachia who worked their butt off in school brings more diversity of life experience than a black kid who went to GDS, vacations on Martha's Vineyard and is full pay.
Racial diversity was very much needed 20 years ago on college campuses but now they need to focus on economic diversity. The colleges will continue to admit a variety of racial groups because there are thousands "URM" who will still get in without their race being considered. They have the merits.

UC system in the 1990s tried the "economic diversity" approach hoping that they'd increase the number of blacks and Hispanics but what they got were a lot of Eastern Europeans and Vietnamese. As that wasn't the kind of "diversity" they were looking for, they dropped it.

Well what's wrong with Eastern Europeans and Vietnamese? The whole point of what I was saying is that you admit without trying to engineer the racial result and only admit those who have the merit to attend, but give a bump to those who come from low income situations. The sad issue is that there are populations of Blacks and Hispanics in S. CA that don't have good public school systems from preschool-HS. That needs to be fixed but those kids should not get into UCLA because of their race above an eastern european or a low income white kid from bakersfield who is actually prepared academically to go to that UC.

So you think a student from one of those terrible schools with a score 300 points below a rich prep kids should not get into UCLA?

If you're not prepared, you're not prepared. You may not be happy with the outcome but the problem is well upstream of the college admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

Actually the high scorers who were a tiny bit lower than the top scorers did work harder at something, many things… community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Because of their hard work they were chosen over your kid who studied hard but was not willing to put the hard work in where it counts.

Your kid really just needs to step it up and do more and be better.

Do you know a lot of Asians. At my highly competitive area, the Asian kids are on varsity and ranked athletes, hold leadership positions in competitive clubs, going to national competitions, participating in and winning awards across a range of the arts, have a gazillion volunteer hours… on top of doing well academically. Your notion of the Asian student who only studies is a very outdated (and racist) one.

How are they able to accomplish all of that? Not intellectually...monetarily, time, etc?

Dp.. are you insinuating that URM kids don't do all that because they don't have the intellect to do so?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

Actually the high scorers who were a tiny bit lower than the top scorers did work harder at something, many things… community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Because of their hard work they were chosen over your kid who studied hard but was not willing to put the hard work in where it counts.

Your kid really just needs to step it up and do more and be better.

how do you know this?

And actually, those Asian American students who have top scores also did many things ... community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Apparently, they do so well at all these things, that they have to score higher and do more than certain other groups.

That is what needs to be shown to prove the point that’s it’s a race based bias. Please post the National honors stats, the community engagement stats, the athletic stats. The arts stats.

The SAT stats are meaningless.

Show me students that excel at those things turned down for another student with no honors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the focus on race is outdated, if anything it should be that kids who come from less means; rural poverty, inner city low income situations get a bump in admissions if they have stats that would otherwise put them in the bottom 25 percent of typical admits. That is what will bring real diversity to campuses. A poor white kid from appalachia who worked their butt off in school brings more diversity of life experience than a black kid who went to GDS, vacations on Martha's Vineyard and is full pay.
Racial diversity was very much needed 20 years ago on college campuses but now they need to focus on economic diversity. The colleges will continue to admit a variety of racial groups because there are thousands "URM" who will still get in without their race being considered. They have the merits.

UC system in the 1990s tried the "economic diversity" approach hoping that they'd increase the number of blacks and Hispanics but what they got were a lot of Eastern Europeans and Vietnamese. As that wasn't the kind of "diversity" they were looking for, they dropped it.

Well what's wrong with Eastern Europeans and Vietnamese? The whole point of what I was saying is that you admit without trying to engineer the racial result and only admit those who have the merit to attend, but give a bump to those who come from low income situations. The sad issue is that there are populations of Blacks and Hispanics in S. CA that don't have good public school systems from preschool-HS. That needs to be fixed but those kids should not get into UCLA because of their race above an eastern european or a low income white kid from bakersfield who is actually prepared academically to go to that UC.

So you think a student from one of those terrible schools with a score 300 points below a rich prep kids should not get into UCLA?

I think that if a student from one of those terrible schools scored in the bottom 25 percent of what typical admits score, and they are coming from a low income area of LA, then they should get into UCLA regardless of their race, but because they are obviously working very hard and trying to pull themselves out of the low income situation they were born into. (Some of these students would obviously end up being non-white students) My point is that race should not be the focus.
There are shitty schools in Bakersfield and Barstow(dear god it is sad there!) and those poor white kids who score 300 points below a rich prep kid should have a shot of getting into UCLA too and not have their race hurt their ability of moving out of poverty. Another example, I think a student growing up in Alhambra, CA( likely Asian, statistically), whose family has very little means, should get a bump too. It is about diversity added through hard working students and making an effort in admissions to make sure that they are including some students *regardless of race* who are trying to break the cycle of poverty. It would be natural to have the racial percentages fluctuate year to year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

Actually the high scorers who were a tiny bit lower than the top scorers did work harder at something, many things… community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Because of their hard work they were chosen over your kid who studied hard but was not willing to put the hard work in where it counts.

Your kid really just needs to step it up and do more and be better.

Do you know a lot of Asians. At my highly competitive area, the Asian kids are on varsity and ranked athletes, hold leadership positions in competitive clubs, going to national competitions, participating in and winning awards across a range of the arts, have a gazillion volunteer hours… on top of doing well academically. Your notion of the Asian student who only studies is a very outdated (and racist) one.

exactly.. yet, I'm sure the ^PP thinks they are so enlightened and not racist.

Lol @ varsity

You don’t understand national honors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

Actually the high scorers who were a tiny bit lower than the top scorers did work harder at something, many things… community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Because of their hard work they were chosen over your kid who studied hard but was not willing to put the hard work in where it counts.

Your kid really just needs to step it up and do more and be better.

how do you know this?

And actually, those Asian American students who have top scores also did many things ... community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Apparently, they do so well at all these things, that they have to score higher and do more than certain other groups.

That is what needs to be shown to prove the point that’s it’s a race based bias. Please post the National honors stats, the community engagement stats, the athletic stats. The arts stats.

The SAT stats are meaningless.

Show me students that excel at those things turned down for another student with no honors.

Well Harvard has a composite academic measure that is clearly more than SAT, no surprise it's completely consistent with this picture.

What I've noticed in this "debate" is that all evidence on observables points in one direction -- namely, in favor of Asians. The response is always that somehow the data that we can't observe happens to go the other way, and strongly enough that it compensates for the observables. As it happens, Asians outperformed Whites in alumni interviews at Harvard in the overall measure, and performed at parity on the personality measure. (The personality bias everyone mentions happened at the admissions office.) The one thing Whites outperform on systematically is being legacies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the focus on race is outdated, if anything it should be that kids who come from less means; rural poverty, inner city low income situations get a bump in admissions if they have stats that would otherwise put them in the bottom 25 percent of typical admits. That is what will bring real diversity to campuses. A poor white kid from appalachia who worked their butt off in school brings more diversity of life experience than a black kid who went to GDS, vacations on Martha's Vineyard and is full pay.
Racial diversity was very much needed 20 years ago on college campuses but now they need to focus on economic diversity. The colleges will continue to admit a variety of racial groups because there are thousands "URM" who will still get in without their race being considered. They have the merits.

UC system in the 1990s tried the "economic diversity" approach hoping that they'd increase the number of blacks and Hispanics but what they got were a lot of Eastern Europeans and Vietnamese. As that wasn't the kind of "diversity" they were looking for, they dropped it.

Well what's wrong with Eastern Europeans and Vietnamese? The whole point of what I was saying is that you admit without trying to engineer the racial result and only admit those who have the merit to attend, but give a bump to those who come from low income situations. The sad issue is that there are populations of Blacks and Hispanics in S. CA that don't have good public school systems from preschool-HS. That needs to be fixed but those kids should not get into UCLA because of their race above an eastern european or a low income white kid from bakersfield who is actually prepared academically to go to that UC.

So you think a student from one of those terrible schools with a score 300 points below a rich prep kids should not get into UCLA?

I think that if a student from one of those terrible schools scored in the bottom 25 percent of what typical admits score, and they are coming from a low income area of LA, then they should get into UCLA regardless of their race, but because they are obviously working very hard and trying to pull themselves out of the low income situation they were born into. (Some of these students would obviously end up being non-white students) My point is that race should not be the focus.
There are shitty schools in Bakersfield and Barstow(dear god it is sad there!) and those poor white kids who score 300 points below a rich prep kid should have a shot of getting into UCLA too and not have their race hurt their ability of moving out of poverty. Another example, I think a student growing up in Alhambra, CA( likely Asian, statistically), whose family has very little means, should get a bump too. It is about diversity added through hard working students and making an effort in admissions to make sure that they are including some students *regardless of race* who are trying to break the cycle of poverty. It would be natural to have the racial percentages fluctuate year to year.

We agree and that happens. People call it locality diversity when school pluck someone from a fly over state with top scores but “300 points lower” than the top students.

It’s happening for all groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the troll that's flooding this thread lately wants everyone to know that Asians are the perfect model students. Ok.

Harvard will be 100% Asian in a few years.

Happy now?

Bye.

If you made HYP a "pure merit" system it would be like TJ High School - 60% or 70% Asian and 20% white.

I'd be fine with that but blacks would scream their heads off just like they did about TJ demographics.

Define "pure merit"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.

Actually the high scorers who were a tiny bit lower than the top scorers did work harder at something, many things… community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Because of their hard work they were chosen over your kid who studied hard but was not willing to put the hard work in where it counts.

Your kid really just needs to step it up and do more and be better.

how do you know this?

And actually, those Asian American students who have top scores also did many things ... community engagement, arts, sports to name a few. Apparently, they do so well at all these things, that they have to score higher and do more than certain other groups.

That is what needs to be shown to prove the point that’s it’s a race based bias. Please post the National honors stats, the community engagement stats, the athletic stats. The arts stats.

The SAT stats are meaningless.

Show me students that excel at those things turned down for another student with no honors.

Well Harvard has a composite academic measure that is clearly more than SAT, no surprise it's completely consistent with this picture.

What I've noticed in this "debate" is that all evidence on observables points in one direction -- namely, in favor of Asians. The response is always that somehow the data that we can't observe happens to go the other way, and strongly enough that it compensates for the observables. As it happens, Asians outperformed Whites in alumni interviews at Harvard in the overall measure, and performed at parity on the personality measure. (The personality bias everyone mentions happened at the admissions office.) The one thing Whites outperform on systematically is being legacies.

Nobody know the whole story. David Hogg was very open about his terrible scores, yet he is at Harvard. Why?