Trapped/Re-aging Families, How are you having the conversation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did people see this?

https://www.northshoreunited.org/

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but THE factor.

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but NOT THE factor. (Sorry typo)

Can add https://spokanesounders.org/u-s-soccer-age-group-change-what-it-means-for-spokane-shadow/. "Our philosophy remains the same: most players develop best in their true age group." And like many others, they have flexibility.

And a pretty good read here on a timeless piece if you are thinking your child should play up where they say it depends on the kid and using grade is a bad reason, https://changingthegameproject.com/child-play-dos-donts-moving-kids-older-age-groups/

Hahaha...

Directly from your Sounders link. Pretty obvious that they plan to group by grade but dont want to say it directly to allow for flexibility.

"What if my player’s birthdate and school grade don’t align?
We know some players, especially those with August or early-September birthdays, may not align perfectly with their grade level because Spokane schools start around September 1.

Our directors will review each situation case by case to find the best developmental and social fit for each player. The goal is always to keep kids challenged and comfortable, whether that means staying with classmates or training within their natural age group.

If your child’s birthdate and grade year don’t align, we encourage you to contact your director right away so they can conduct a proper audit."

Yes, their rec leagues will lean grade but travel is to make the best teams, "On our most competitive teams, we form the strongest possible age-specific pools.
On neighborhood-based teams, placement may occasionally reflect family or community factors."

So grouping by age with flexibility.

So you're saying that on their most competitive teams they plan to roster Aug/Sept players down a grade so they cant get recruited.

It will be fun to see all the traction this will get with parents.

It depends on whether the parent is like or like many of the folks here who see a lot more nuance when it comes to development.

Yea most parents appreciate clubs setting up their kids into a situation where they get ignored by college recruiters.

Sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

The constant whacks on the head are hilarious. I don't understand why people are arguing against college recruitment.

I don't understand why someone doesn't think playing on age at a top tier club is a bad idea, especially when there's multiple ways to get recruited beyond whatever team you are currently on. It's all so fluid and has the potential to change every year and at non-team events, such as showcases, ID camps and combines. Simply put, you get yourself on the best team you can and go from there.

Sure, playing with your grade or higher is probably better than not, but the dude here trying to pigeonhole people into a box of grade doesn't see the forest of opportunity that exists and different pathways people take.

What you dont understand is that top tier clubs have queues 5-10 players deep for each position at every age group. This means they wont waste their time developing an Aug/Sept player that's playing down a grade in school. They have plenty of talent avaliable playing their grade in school.

Playing down a grade in school is a dead end for players, clubs, and other players/parents that will end up resenting the player playing down.

This isn't a unique to soccer, you know. Fun chat about this in baseball on Reddit, even includes your side but again that's not the only side: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homeplate/comments/1ojju8s/how_important_is_it_to_play_with_grade_level_vs/

I don't believe in playing down.

But, the reason playing down, redshirting, regarding, being held back, whatever you want to call it works in other sports is because players grade in school and level they play at are in alignment.

Aug/Sept players playing down in SY are out of alignment with their grade in school. This tells recruiters that this player is likely a trojan horse. You can get around this by holding your kid back in school. This would align the club team they play on with their grade in school. The problem with this is its a can of worms that leagues dont want to get involved in. Nobody wants to be the reason some crazy parent is holding their kid back in school.

Your system would ironically create an incentive for August and some September parents to hold their kid back in school. So by trying to avoid holdbacks/redshirting, your targeting August kids by forcing them to play up if they went to school on time would create unintended consequences. This is a good example of why random people can't figure out why the rules are the way they are. When you try to tweak the rules to cover edge cases, you create a mess.

Please explain how if leagues enforced players playing on at team that's their grade in school forces anyone to hold their kid back. There might be some parents that choose to hold their kid back but leagues are providing playing options and representing players to college recruiters in the best way possible.

Why do you keep using the term “college recruiters” like it’s a thing? No one calls them that. College coaches do the recruiting. Head coaches. Assistant coaches. It’s the college coaching staff, not “college recruiters”. If you were familiar with the recruiting process you would know this.

In any case, it’s clear there is no rule forcing anyone to do anything. Clubs will handle this on a case by case basis. As they should. Sometimes better to play on grade, sometimes better to play on age. Done and dusted, time to move on.

[Anonymous]

59 pages. The panic is real LOL. Guys it is just youth soccer and if your DD or DS can’t get an athletic scholarship, they can try merit and if not get a student loan. In the end everyone will go to college. Relax and let the kids enjoy their sport. Jeez

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did people see this?

https://www.northshoreunited.org/

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but THE factor.

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but NOT THE factor. (Sorry typo)

Can add https://spokanesounders.org/u-s-soccer-age-group-change-what-it-means-for-spokane-shadow/. "Our philosophy remains the same: most players develop best in their true age group." And like many others, they have flexibility.

And a pretty good read here on a timeless piece if you are thinking your child should play up where they say it depends on the kid and using grade is a bad reason, https://changingthegameproject.com/child-play-dos-donts-moving-kids-older-age-groups/

Hahaha...

Directly from your Sounders link. Pretty obvious that they plan to group by grade but dont want to say it directly to allow for flexibility.

"What if my player’s birthdate and school grade don’t align?
We know some players, especially those with August or early-September birthdays, may not align perfectly with their grade level because Spokane schools start around September 1.

Our directors will review each situation case by case to find the best developmental and social fit for each player. The goal is always to keep kids challenged and comfortable, whether that means staying with classmates or training within their natural age group.

If your child’s birthdate and grade year don’t align, we encourage you to contact your director right away so they can conduct a proper audit."

Yes, their rec leagues will lean grade but travel is to make the best teams, "On our most competitive teams, we form the strongest possible age-specific pools.
On neighborhood-based teams, placement may occasionally reflect family or community factors."

So grouping by age with flexibility.

So you're saying that on their most competitive teams they plan to roster Aug/Sept players down a grade so they cant get recruited.

It will be fun to see all the traction this will get with parents.

It depends on whether the parent is like or like many of the folks here who see a lot more nuance when it comes to development.

Yea most parents appreciate clubs setting up their kids into a situation where they get ignored by college recruiters.

Sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

The constant whacks on the head are hilarious. I don't understand why people are arguing against college recruitment.

I don't understand why someone doesn't think playing on age at a top tier club is a bad idea, especially when there's multiple ways to get recruited beyond whatever team you are currently on. It's all so fluid and has the potential to change every year and at non-team events, such as showcases, ID camps and combines. Simply put, you get yourself on the best team you can and go from there.

Sure, playing with your grade or higher is probably better than not, but the dude here trying to pigeonhole people into a box of grade doesn't see the forest of opportunity that exists and different pathways people take.

What you dont understand is that top tier clubs have queues 5-10 players deep for each position at every age group. This means they wont waste their time developing an Aug/Sept player that's playing down a grade in school. They have plenty of talent avaliable playing their grade in school.

Playing down a grade in school is a dead end for players, clubs, and other players/parents that will end up resenting the player playing down.

This isn't a unique to soccer, you know. Fun chat about this in baseball on Reddit, even includes your side but again that's not the only side: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homeplate/comments/1ojju8s/how_important_is_it_to_play_with_grade_level_vs/

I don't believe in playing down.

But, the reason playing down, redshirting, regarding, being held back, whatever you want to call it works in other sports is because players grade in school and level they play at are in alignment.

Aug/Sept players playing down in SY are out of alignment with their grade in school. This tells recruiters that this player is likely a trojan horse. You can get around this by holding your kid back in school. This would align the club team they play on with their grade in school. The problem with this is its a can of worms that leagues dont want to get involved in. Nobody wants to be the reason some crazy parent is holding their kid back in school.

Your system would ironically create an incentive for August and some September parents to hold their kid back in school. So by trying to avoid holdbacks/redshirting, your targeting August kids by forcing them to play up if they went to school on time would create unintended consequences. This is a good example of why random people can't figure out why the rules are the way they are. When you try to tweak the rules to cover edge cases, you create a mess.

Please explain how if leagues enforced players playing on at team that's their grade in school forces anyone to hold their kid back. There might be some parents that choose to hold their kid back but leagues are providing playing options and representing players to college recruiters in the best way possible.

I am going to give you a break again because English reading comprehension can be difficult if it is your second language. Incentive, something that motivates/encourages one to do something. And unintended consequences, unforeseen/unpredicted and often unplanned outcomes of an action or decision as incentives are changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did people see this?

https://www.northshoreunited.org/

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but THE factor.

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but NOT THE factor. (Sorry typo)

Can add https://spokanesounders.org/u-s-soccer-age-group-change-what-it-means-for-spokane-shadow/. "Our philosophy remains the same: most players develop best in their true age group." And like many others, they have flexibility.

And a pretty good read here on a timeless piece if you are thinking your child should play up where they say it depends on the kid and using grade is a bad reason, https://changingthegameproject.com/child-play-dos-donts-moving-kids-older-age-groups/

Hahaha...

Directly from your Sounders link. Pretty obvious that they plan to group by grade but dont want to say it directly to allow for flexibility.

"What if my player’s birthdate and school grade don’t align?
We know some players, especially those with August or early-September birthdays, may not align perfectly with their grade level because Spokane schools start around September 1.

Our directors will review each situation case by case to find the best developmental and social fit for each player. The goal is always to keep kids challenged and comfortable, whether that means staying with classmates or training within their natural age group.

If your child’s birthdate and grade year don’t align, we encourage you to contact your director right away so they can conduct a proper audit."

Yes, their rec leagues will lean grade but travel is to make the best teams, "On our most competitive teams, we form the strongest possible age-specific pools.
On neighborhood-based teams, placement may occasionally reflect family or community factors."

So grouping by age with flexibility.

So you're saying that on their most competitive teams they plan to roster Aug/Sept players down a grade so they cant get recruited.

It will be fun to see all the traction this will get with parents.

It depends on whether the parent is like or like many of the folks here who see a lot more nuance when it comes to development.

Yea most parents appreciate clubs setting up their kids into a situation where they get ignored by college recruiters.

Sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

The constant whacks on the head are hilarious. I don't understand why people are arguing against college recruitment.

I don't understand why someone doesn't think playing on age at a top tier club is a bad idea, especially when there's multiple ways to get recruited beyond whatever team you are currently on. It's all so fluid and has the potential to change every year and at non-team events, such as showcases, ID camps and combines. Simply put, you get yourself on the best team you can and go from there.

Sure, playing with your grade or higher is probably better than not, but the dude here trying to pigeonhole people into a box of grade doesn't see the forest of opportunity that exists and different pathways people take.

What you dont understand is that top tier clubs have queues 5-10 players deep for each position at every age group. This means they wont waste their time developing an Aug/Sept player that's playing down a grade in school. They have plenty of talent avaliable playing their grade in school.

Playing down a grade in school is a dead end for players, clubs, and other players/parents that will end up resenting the player playing down.

This isn't a unique to soccer, you know. Fun chat about this in baseball on Reddit, even includes your side but again that's not the only side: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homeplate/comments/1ojju8s/how_important_is_it_to_play_with_grade_level_vs/

I don't believe in playing down.

But, the reason playing down, redshirting, regarding, being held back, whatever you want to call it works in other sports is because players grade in school and level they play at are in alignment.

Aug/Sept players playing down in SY are out of alignment with their grade in school. This tells recruiters that this player is likely a trojan horse. You can get around this by holding your kid back in school. This would align the club team they play on with their grade in school. The problem with this is its a can of worms that leagues dont want to get involved in. Nobody wants to be the reason some crazy parent is holding their kid back in school.

Your system would ironically create an incentive for August and some September parents to hold their kid back in school. So by trying to avoid holdbacks/redshirting, your targeting August kids by forcing them to play up if they went to school on time would create unintended consequences. This is a good example of why random people can't figure out why the rules are the way they are. When you try to tweak the rules to cover edge cases, you create a mess.

Please explain how if leagues enforced players playing on at team that's their grade in school forces anyone to hold their kid back. There might be some parents that choose to hold their kid back but leagues are providing playing options and representing players to college recruiters in the best way possible.

Forcing the Aug kids that went to school on time to play up and letting August kids that were held back a year in school to play in their correct age group wouldn't be viewed as a fair system and it creates an incentive to holdback back Aug kids so they could merely get what the rules are, to play on age.

But the only ones that can be held back and play at the lower level would be Aug/Sept + younger players.

They don't want the Inconsistency, which is why age 12 month window was chosen by leagues and clubs with limited exceptions play up based on skill.

Asking "What grade are you in?"

Is not a problem for grouping players.

Some states have teams across state lines and they play teams from other states and they often have differing age cutoffs for school. Forcing GY into age groups just wouldn't be fair and even. Kids from any birth month could get to play up, but it is based on skill.

Also this is not GY.

It's SY 8/1-7/31 but players younger than the eligibility window (Aug/Sept birthdays) play with their grade.

The big difference is that because of the eligibility window older players cant play down. Which is the reason most people hate GY.

Forcing grade creates backdoor GY. But grade isn't like a birthdate in that it can be in flux and nebulous and undocumentable. It's 8/1, no buts, best earn playing up, clubs and leagues have spoke, 9 to 1. Warning, pretending the rules don't exist can be a hazard to your health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did people see this?

https://www.northshoreunited.org/

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but THE factor.

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but NOT THE factor. (Sorry typo)

Can add https://spokanesounders.org/u-s-soccer-age-group-change-what-it-means-for-spokane-shadow/. "Our philosophy remains the same: most players develop best in their true age group." And like many others, they have flexibility.

And a pretty good read here on a timeless piece if you are thinking your child should play up where they say it depends on the kid and using grade is a bad reason, https://changingthegameproject.com/child-play-dos-donts-moving-kids-older-age-groups/

Hahaha...

Directly from your Sounders link. Pretty obvious that they plan to group by grade but dont want to say it directly to allow for flexibility.

"What if my player’s birthdate and school grade don’t align?
We know some players, especially those with August or early-September birthdays, may not align perfectly with their grade level because Spokane schools start around September 1.

Our directors will review each situation case by case to find the best developmental and social fit for each player. The goal is always to keep kids challenged and comfortable, whether that means staying with classmates or training within their natural age group.

If your child’s birthdate and grade year don’t align, we encourage you to contact your director right away so they can conduct a proper audit."

Yes, their rec leagues will lean grade but travel is to make the best teams, "On our most competitive teams, we form the strongest possible age-specific pools.
On neighborhood-based teams, placement may occasionally reflect family or community factors."

So grouping by age with flexibility.

So you're saying that on their most competitive teams they plan to roster Aug/Sept players down a grade so they cant get recruited.

It will be fun to see all the traction this will get with parents.

It depends on whether the parent is like or like many of the folks here who see a lot more nuance when it comes to development.

Yea most parents appreciate clubs setting up their kids into a situation where they get ignored by college recruiters.

Sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

The constant whacks on the head are hilarious. I don't understand why people are arguing against college recruitment.

I don't understand why someone doesn't think playing on age at a top tier club is a bad idea, especially when there's multiple ways to get recruited beyond whatever team you are currently on. It's all so fluid and has the potential to change every year and at non-team events, such as showcases, ID camps and combines. Simply put, you get yourself on the best team you can and go from there.

Sure, playing with your grade or higher is probably better than not, but the dude here trying to pigeonhole people into a box of grade doesn't see the forest of opportunity that exists and different pathways people take.

What you dont understand is that top tier clubs have queues 5-10 players deep for each position at every age group. This means they wont waste their time developing an Aug/Sept player that's playing down a grade in school. They have plenty of talent avaliable playing their grade in school.

Playing down a grade in school is a dead end for players, clubs, and other players/parents that will end up resenting the player playing down.

This isn't a unique to soccer, you know. Fun chat about this in baseball on Reddit, even includes your side but again that's not the only side: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homeplate/comments/1ojju8s/how_important_is_it_to_play_with_grade_level_vs/

I don't believe in playing down.

But, the reason playing down, redshirting, regarding, being held back, whatever you want to call it works in other sports is because players grade in school and level they play at are in alignment.

Aug/Sept players playing down in SY are out of alignment with their grade in school. This tells recruiters that this player is likely a trojan horse. You can get around this by holding your kid back in school. This would align the club team they play on with their grade in school. The problem with this is its a can of worms that leagues dont want to get involved in. Nobody wants to be the reason some crazy parent is holding their kid back in school.

Your system would ironically create an incentive for August and some September parents to hold their kid back in school. So by trying to avoid holdbacks/redshirting, your targeting August kids by forcing them to play up if they went to school on time would create unintended consequences. This is a good example of why random people can't figure out why the rules are the way they are. When you try to tweak the rules to cover edge cases, you create a mess.

Please explain how if leagues enforced players playing on at team that's their grade in school forces anyone to hold their kid back. There might be some parents that choose to hold their kid back but leagues are providing playing options and representing players to college recruiters in the best way possible.

Forcing the Aug kids that went to school on time to play up and letting August kids that were held back a year in school to play in their correct age group wouldn't be viewed as a fair system and it creates an incentive to holdback back Aug kids so they could merely get what the rules are, to play on age.

But the only ones that can be held back and play at the lower level would be Aug/Sept + younger players.

They don't want the Inconsistency, which is why age 12 month window was chosen by leagues and clubs with limited exceptions play up based on skill.

Asking "What grade are you in?"

Is not a problem for grouping players.

Lack of formal consistent documentation for grades makes this a non starter. It's why leagues use ages, birth certificates work.

So what? If young Aug/Sept players choose to lie about their grade in school it will only hurt them when it comes time to be recruited for college.

Lying about grades would be constant complaints to clubs and undermine the game.

[Anonymous]

Why is this guy still talking about forcing kids to play on grade? The age range has nothing to do with grade. He needs help. And a break from arguing against the wall. It’s 8/1 - 7/31. No, Aug and Sept kids will not be forced to play on grade. No, “recruiters” won’t care - if they’re good they’re good. Let it go!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is this guy still talking about forcing kids to play on grade? The age range has nothing to do with grade. He needs help. And a break from arguing against the wall. It’s 8/1 - 7/31. No, Aug and Sept kids will not be forced to play on grade. No, “recruiters” won’t care - if they’re good they’re good. Let it go!

It helps his DD if an August kid on his team is forced to play up so he is trying to shame certain kids (and their parents) into playing up, trying to wrongly convince some kids that playing up is necessary to play in college and use an anon forum to convince clubs and leagues that his idea is the greatest idea since sliced bread. It is just a classic misinformation campaign where he hasn't even the wherewithal to develop alternative facts and just keeps making unsubstantiated claims while miscomprehending clubs written guidance. Good times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did people see this?

https://www.northshoreunited.org/

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but THE factor.

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but NOT THE factor. (Sorry typo)

Can add https://spokanesounders.org/u-s-soccer-age-group-change-what-it-means-for-spokane-shadow/. "Our philosophy remains the same: most players develop best in their true age group." And like many others, they have flexibility.

And a pretty good read here on a timeless piece if you are thinking your child should play up where they say it depends on the kid and using grade is a bad reason, https://changingthegameproject.com/child-play-dos-donts-moving-kids-older-age-groups/

Hahaha...

Directly from your Sounders link. Pretty obvious that they plan to group by grade but dont want to say it directly to allow for flexibility.

"What if my player’s birthdate and school grade don’t align?
We know some players, especially those with August or early-September birthdays, may not align perfectly with their grade level because Spokane schools start around September 1.

Our directors will review each situation case by case to find the best developmental and social fit for each player. The goal is always to keep kids challenged and comfortable, whether that means staying with classmates or training within their natural age group.

If your child’s birthdate and grade year don’t align, we encourage you to contact your director right away so they can conduct a proper audit."

Yes, their rec leagues will lean grade but travel is to make the best teams, "On our most competitive teams, we form the strongest possible age-specific pools.
On neighborhood-based teams, placement may occasionally reflect family or community factors."

So grouping by age with flexibility.

So you're saying that on their most competitive teams they plan to roster Aug/Sept players down a grade so they cant get recruited.

It will be fun to see all the traction this will get with parents.

It depends on whether the parent is like or like many of the folks here who see a lot more nuance when it comes to development.

Yea most parents appreciate clubs setting up their kids into a situation where they get ignored by college recruiters.

Sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

The constant whacks on the head are hilarious. I don't understand why people are arguing against college recruitment.

I don't understand why someone doesn't think playing on age at a top tier club is a bad idea, especially when there's multiple ways to get recruited beyond whatever team you are currently on. It's all so fluid and has the potential to change every year and at non-team events, such as showcases, ID camps and combines. Simply put, you get yourself on the best team you can and go from there.

Sure, playing with your grade or higher is probably better than not, but the dude here trying to pigeonhole people into a box of grade doesn't see the forest of opportunity that exists and different pathways people take.

What you dont understand is that top tier clubs have queues 5-10 players deep for each position at every age group. This means they wont waste their time developing an Aug/Sept player that's playing down a grade in school. They have plenty of talent avaliable playing their grade in school.

Playing down a grade in school is a dead end for players, clubs, and other players/parents that will end up resenting the player playing down.

This isn't a unique to soccer, you know. Fun chat about this in baseball on Reddit, even includes your side but again that's not the only side: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homeplate/comments/1ojju8s/how_important_is_it_to_play_with_grade_level_vs/

I don't believe in playing down.

But, the reason playing down, redshirting, regarding, being held back, whatever you want to call it works in other sports is because players grade in school and level they play at are in alignment.

Aug/Sept players playing down in SY are out of alignment with their grade in school. This tells recruiters that this player is likely a trojan horse. You can get around this by holding your kid back in school. This would align the club team they play on with their grade in school. The problem with this is its a can of worms that leagues dont want to get involved in. Nobody wants to be the reason some crazy parent is holding their kid back in school.

Your system would ironically create an incentive for August and some September parents to hold their kid back in school. So by trying to avoid holdbacks/redshirting, your targeting August kids by forcing them to play up if they went to school on time would create unintended consequences. This is a good example of why random people can't figure out why the rules are the way they are. When you try to tweak the rules to cover edge cases, you create a mess.

Please explain how if leagues enforced players playing on at team that's their grade in school forces anyone to hold their kid back. There might be some parents that choose to hold their kid back but leagues are providing playing options and representing players to college recruiters in the best way possible.

Forcing the Aug kids that went to school on time to play up and letting August kids that were held back a year in school to play in their correct age group wouldn't be viewed as a fair system and it creates an incentive to holdback back Aug kids so they could merely get what the rules are, to play on age.

But the only ones that can be held back and play at the lower level would be Aug/Sept + younger players.

They don't want the Inconsistency, which is why age 12 month window was chosen by leagues and clubs with limited exceptions play up based on skill.

Asking "What grade are you in?"

Is not a problem for grouping players.

Lack of formal consistent documentation for grades makes this a non starter. It's why leagues use ages, birth certificates work.

So what? If young Aug/Sept players choose to lie about their grade in school it will only hurt them when it comes time to be recruited for college.

Lying about grades would be constant complaints to clubs and undermine the game.

But it wouldn't matter because the only person getting screwed over is the player playjng down a grade. By cheating they'd be hurting themself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did people see this?

https://www.northshoreunited.org/

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but THE factor.

Yeah, if you'd like, there are 8 clubs now that say "grade" is a factor but NOT THE factor. (Sorry typo)

Can add https://spokanesounders.org/u-s-soccer-age-group-change-what-it-means-for-spokane-shadow/. "Our philosophy remains the same: most players develop best in their true age group." And like many others, they have flexibility.

And a pretty good read here on a timeless piece if you are thinking your child should play up where they say it depends on the kid and using grade is a bad reason, https://changingthegameproject.com/child-play-dos-donts-moving-kids-older-age-groups/

Hahaha...

Directly from your Sounders link. Pretty obvious that they plan to group by grade but dont want to say it directly to allow for flexibility.

"What if my player’s birthdate and school grade don’t align?
We know some players, especially those with August or early-September birthdays, may not align perfectly with their grade level because Spokane schools start around September 1.

Our directors will review each situation case by case to find the best developmental and social fit for each player. The goal is always to keep kids challenged and comfortable, whether that means staying with classmates or training within their natural age group.

If your child’s birthdate and grade year don’t align, we encourage you to contact your director right away so they can conduct a proper audit."

Yes, their rec leagues will lean grade but travel is to make the best teams, "On our most competitive teams, we form the strongest possible age-specific pools.
On neighborhood-based teams, placement may occasionally reflect family or community factors."

So grouping by age with flexibility.

So you're saying that on their most competitive teams they plan to roster Aug/Sept players down a grade so they cant get recruited.

It will be fun to see all the traction this will get with parents.

It depends on whether the parent is like or like many of the folks here who see a lot more nuance when it comes to development.

Yea most parents appreciate clubs setting up their kids into a situation where they get ignored by college recruiters.

Sounds like a reasonable thing to do.

The constant whacks on the head are hilarious. I don't understand why people are arguing against college recruitment.

I don't understand why someone doesn't think playing on age at a top tier club is a bad idea, especially when there's multiple ways to get recruited beyond whatever team you are currently on. It's all so fluid and has the potential to change every year and at non-team events, such as showcases, ID camps and combines. Simply put, you get yourself on the best team you can and go from there.

Sure, playing with your grade or higher is probably better than not, but the dude here trying to pigeonhole people into a box of grade doesn't see the forest of opportunity that exists and different pathways people take.

What you dont understand is that top tier clubs have queues 5-10 players deep for each position at every age group. This means they wont waste their time developing an Aug/Sept player that's playing down a grade in school. They have plenty of talent avaliable playing their grade in school.

Playing down a grade in school is a dead end for players, clubs, and other players/parents that will end up resenting the player playing down.

This isn't a unique to soccer, you know. Fun chat about this in baseball on Reddit, even includes your side but again that's not the only side: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homeplate/comments/1ojju8s/how_important_is_it_to_play_with_grade_level_vs/

I don't believe in playing down.

But, the reason playing down, redshirting, regarding, being held back, whatever you want to call it works in other sports is because players grade in school and level they play at are in alignment.

Aug/Sept players playing down in SY are out of alignment with their grade in school. This tells recruiters that this player is likely a trojan horse. You can get around this by holding your kid back in school. This would align the club team they play on with their grade in school. The problem with this is its a can of worms that leagues dont want to get involved in. Nobody wants to be the reason some crazy parent is holding their kid back in school.

Your system would ironically create an incentive for August and some September parents to hold their kid back in school. So by trying to avoid holdbacks/redshirting, your targeting August kids by forcing them to play up if they went to school on time would create unintended consequences. This is a good example of why random people can't figure out why the rules are the way they are. When you try to tweak the rules to cover edge cases, you create a mess.

Please explain how if leagues enforced players playing on at team that's their grade in school forces anyone to hold their kid back. There might be some parents that choose to hold their kid back but leagues are providing playing options and representing players to college recruiters in the best way possible.

Forcing the Aug kids that went to school on time to play up and letting August kids that were held back a year in school to play in their correct age group wouldn't be viewed as a fair system and it creates an incentive to holdback back Aug kids so they could merely get what the rules are, to play on age.

But the only ones that can be held back and play at the lower level would be Aug/Sept + younger players.

They don't want the Inconsistency, which is why age 12 month window was chosen by leagues and clubs with limited exceptions play up based on skill.

Asking "What grade are you in?"

Is not a problem for grouping players.

Lack of formal consistent documentation for grades makes this a non starter. It's why leagues use ages, birth certificates work.

So what? If young Aug/Sept players choose to lie about their grade in school it will only hurt them when it comes time to be recruited for college.

Lying about grades would be constant complaints to clubs and undermine the game.

But it wouldn't matter because the only person getting screwed over is the player playjng down a grade. By cheating they'd be hurting themself.

Great, let's go with only hurting themselves. You will find clarity then in thinking anyone playing in an age category that you feel they should not be in because of their grade is lying about their grade. Problem for your head solved. Move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its 9-1 now with clubs putting skill ahead of grade and even the 1 says it's open to exceptions.

You are reading into whats written.

Even if I was to use your interpretation. The players with the "best" skills will be the oldest ones which will likely be the youngest Aug/Sept grade up players. This will translate into top teams all playing by grade. With maybe a few grade down players playing up.

Might want to rewrite, you just validated RAE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its 9-1 now with clubs putting skill ahead of grade and even the 1 says it's open to exceptions.

You are reading into whats written.

Even if I was to use your interpretation. The players with the "best" skills will be the oldest ones which will likely be the youngest Aug/Sept grade up players. This will translate into top teams all playing by grade. With maybe a few grade down players playing up.

Might want to rewrite, you just validated RAE.

How does "if I was to use your interpretation" validate rae?

Im just explaining things to you in a way you'll understand because you believe in rae.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its 9-1 now with clubs putting skill ahead of grade and even the 1 says it's open to exceptions.

You are reading into whats written.

Even if I was to use your interpretation. The players with the "best" skills will be the oldest ones which will likely be the youngest Aug/Sept grade up players. This will translate into top teams all playing by grade. With maybe a few grade down players playing up.

Might want to rewrite, you just validated RAE.

How does "if I was to use your interpretation" validate rae?

Im just explaining things to you in a way you'll understand because you believe in rae.

FYI, you had a mistead, youngest few months don't get to play on top teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its 9-1 now with clubs putting skill ahead of grade and even the 1 says it's open to exceptions.

You are reading into whats written.

Even if I was to use your interpretation. The players with the "best" skills will be the oldest ones which will likely be the youngest Aug/Sept grade up players. This will translate into top teams all playing by grade. With maybe a few grade down players playing up.

Might want to rewrite, you just validated RAE.

How does "if I was to use your interpretation" validate rae?

Im just explaining things to you in a way you'll understand because you believe in rae.

FYI, you had a mistead, youngest few months don't get to play on top teams.

Using rae logic (which I dont believe in for top teams) the younger than the eligibility window players are the most likely to be playing up because they would be the oldest for their age eligibility window. What this means is statistically the top teams will be 99.9% grade correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its 9-1 now with clubs putting skill ahead of grade and even the 1 says it's open to exceptions.

You are reading into whats written.

Even if I was to use your interpretation. The players with the "best" skills will be the oldest ones which will likely be the youngest Aug/Sept grade up players. This will translate into top teams all playing by grade. With maybe a few grade down players playing up.

Might want to rewrite, you just validated RAE.

How does "if I was to use your interpretation" validate rae?

Im just explaining things to you in a way you'll understand because you believe in rae.

FYI, you had a mistead, youngest few months don't get to play on top teams.

Using rae logic (which I dont believe in for top teams) the younger than the eligibility window players are the most likely to be playing up because they would be the oldest for their age eligibility window. What this means is statistically the top teams will be 99.9% grade correct.

Flawed logic, assumes playing up is allowed en masse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think its 9-1 now with clubs putting skill ahead of grade and even the 1 says it's open to exceptions.

You are reading into whats written.

Even if I was to use your interpretation. The players with the "best" skills will be the oldest ones which will likely be the youngest Aug/Sept grade up players. This will translate into top teams all playing by grade. With maybe a few grade down players playing up.

Might want to rewrite, you just validated RAE.

How does "if I was to use your interpretation" validate rae?

Im just explaining things to you in a way you'll understand because you believe in rae.

FYI, you had a mistead, youngest few months don't get to play on top teams.

Using rae logic (which I dont believe in for top teams) the younger than the eligibility window players are the most likely to be playing up because they would be the oldest for their age eligibility window. What this means is statistically the top teams will be 99.9% grade correct.

Flawed logic, assumes playing up is allowed en masse.

Why not? Playing up is allowed and using rae logic the oldest players have the most opportunities and are therefore the best / most developed. Wouldn't these statistically the ones playing up?