Race in college admissions is back in front of the Supreme Court Oral Argument on Oct. 31 (Monday)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

None of this adds up to 100% If you include white, asian, blacks, hispanics = > 100

These are admit rates and are affected by the number of applicants. Increasing the number of applicants will drive down the admit rate.

Admit rate would be more meaningful if the various groups had similar #s of applications. Or, at least, not have orders of magnitude difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

The PP sounds like the same racist jerk on the TJ threads who made comments about sneakers, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

None of this adds up to 100% If you include white, asian, blacks, hispanics = > 100

These are admit rates and are affected by the number of applicants. Increasing the number of applicants will drive down the admit rate.

Admit rate would be more meaningful if the various groups had similar #s of applications. Or, at least, not have orders of magnitude difference.

Yes, I would like to see this data alongside similar from Amherst, Williams, Wash & Lee, Pomona, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

Would you say that Asians score lower on the interviews because they put less effort into those areas?

Wrong. Asians actually scored high on 'Interveiws'
go back and check it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

How would anyone other than the kid know why they score lower?

I'll ask you this: how does an admission office who has never met the student give that student a low "personality" score even as the interviewer gave that student a high personality score.

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

The argument that black kids don't do as well on SATs compared to Asian kids must mean that the SAT is culturally bias is a dumb argument, as if an Asian American is culturally closer to white America than a black kid whose ancestors have probably lived in the US for many generations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

Would you say that Asians score lower on the interviews because they put less effort into those areas?

DP. considering that the records showed that interviews actually gave Asian Americans high marks but the admissions officer who had never met the student gave them low marks doesn't support what you are insinuating.

"Personality" assessments are MUCH more subjective than the SATs, and more open to discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of it is “legalized” cheating. I grew up in NY.

My Asian friends parents sent them to Cram schools in summer. They actually request the books for next school year then spend 40 hours a week all summer studying.

They had pros helping with Essay, SAT tutors. Many their focus was just homework. And they worked as a group helping each other.

Compared to me. I worked 20 hours a week in HS, had chores. SAT was a book I took out of library. Paid SAT and college fees my self no help. Most of childhood slept in living room as did not even a bedroom so no place to study.

But how do you compare GPAs and SATs scores. Could my Asian class mate done any better than me.

I got lucky and a college had a program for disadvantaged students with potential and I got on. I recall a fellow student was appalled I needed under a certain HS GPA and SAT score to qualify. He said unfair I got in by having a GPA under a random number. Ironically how is it fair he got in with a GPA over a random number? That guy ended up moving near me in my 40s, we both graduated college, got similar household incomes and similar jobs,

Basing admittance on a random number is silly. Holistic approach is better.

Holistic approach is good.
However what makes you think that you would be better in other extra areas such as ECs, Awards, Essay, Reasearch, etc than those
Asian kids.

Based on what you said, they are probably overall better on those areas as well.

Neither is "better" that is the point of having both in the same college.

They can't have everyone in the college.
let's not go to fairy tales

That's right, somebody sold the high SAT holders a "fairy tale" story if they give up their childhood for test prep they will be given the golden ticket. Then they see their peers with lower test scores going to their #1 college and they are mad that they were lied to, but they were lied to by their parents... not society, not colleges, their parents.

Both are just as good... so sometimes the low SAT score (of course it's still in the top 10% of the nation) get admitted over those with a slightly higher test score.

Asians are not getting passed over in favor of kids with a "slightly" lower SAT score, but a massively lower score.

Above a certain baseline level, for the most part, everyone will do well. Maybe some majors will have higher baselines in one area or another. The point is that above a certain level, higher SAT scores don’t really add anything to an application. This is particularly true if the person with “massively lower” (I doubt it, but ok) scores has actually done something with their abilities (published poetry, written and directed a play….) while the higher scorer not only has not gone beyond simply having high scores, but achieved them through focused tutoring.

tldr: Above a certain baseline level, higher test scores don’t really add that much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

How would anyone other than the kid know why they score lower?

I'll ask you this: how does an admission office who has never met the student give that student a low "personality" score even as the interviewer gave that student a high personality score.

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

The argument that black kids don't do as well on SATs compared to Asian kids must mean that the SAT is culturally bias is a dumb argument, as if an Asian American is culturally closer to white America than a black kid whose ancestors have probably lived in the US for many generations.

I have no idea why they score lower. I was not making a claim to know. PP made a claim what they knew it wasn't.

You understand that difference, right?

And we are not talking about "the kid" taking the test, which is an absurd reference. We're talking about races of people and a policy designed by colleges to ensure they can get the students they want to build the class they need. These questions of why are gigantic academic and intellectual ones which we may never solve in our lifetime. However, we can ensure those reasons - whatever they are - don't continue to hurt people and stop colleges from building the class they want.

[Anonymous]

I think the troll that's flooding this thread lately wants everyone to know that Asians are the perfect model students. Ok.

Harvard will be 100% Asian in a few years.

Happy now?

Bye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of it is “legalized” cheating. I grew up in NY.

My Asian friends parents sent them to Cram schools in summer. They actually request the books for next school year then spend 40 hours a week all summer studying.

They had pros helping with Essay, SAT tutors. Many their focus was just homework. And they worked as a group helping each other.

Compared to me. I worked 20 hours a week in HS, had chores. SAT was a book I took out of library. Paid SAT and college fees my self no help. Most of childhood slept in living room as did not even a bedroom so no place to study.

But how do you compare GPAs and SATs scores. Could my Asian class mate done any better than me.

I got lucky and a college had a program for disadvantaged students with potential and I got on. I recall a fellow student was appalled I needed under a certain HS GPA and SAT score to qualify. He said unfair I got in by having a GPA under a random number. Ironically how is it fair he got in with a GPA over a random number? That guy ended up moving near me in my 40s, we both graduated college, got similar household incomes and similar jobs,

Basing admittance on a random number is silly. Holistic approach is better.

Holistic approach is good.
However what makes you think that you would be better in other extra areas such as ECs, Awards, Essay, Reasearch, etc than those
Asian kids.

Based on what you said, they are probably overall better on those areas as well.

Neither is "better" that is the point of having both in the same college.

They can't have everyone in the college.
let's not go to fairy tales

That's right, somebody sold the high SAT holders a "fairy tale" story if they give up their childhood for test prep they will be given the golden ticket. Then they see their peers with lower test scores going to their #1 college and they are mad that they were lied to, but they were lied to by their parents... not society, not colleges, their parents.

Both are just as good... so sometimes the low SAT score (of course it's still in the top 10% of the nation) get admitted over those with a slightly higher test score.

Asians are not getting passed over in favor of kids with a "slightly" lower SAT score, but a massively lower score.

Above a certain baseline level, for the most part, everyone will do well. Maybe some majors will have higher baselines in one area or another. The point is that above a certain level, higher SAT scores don’t really add anything to an application. This is particularly true if the person with “massively lower” (I doubt it, but ok) scores has actually done something with their abilities (published poetry, written and directed a play….) while the higher scorer not only has not gone beyond simply having high scores, but achieved them through focused tutoring.

tldr: Above a certain baseline level, higher test scores don’t really add that much.

DP.. is there some data that supports what you are saying?

I'm not disagreeing with you but what would be the cutoff? Data would need to be analyzed to support that argument and define what that threshold is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

How would anyone other than the kid know why they score lower?

I'll ask you this: how does an admission office who has never met the student give that student a low "personality" score even as the interviewer gave that student a high personality score.

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

The argument that black kids don't do as well on SATs compared to Asian kids must mean that the SAT is culturally bias is a dumb argument, as if an Asian American is culturally closer to white America than a black kid whose ancestors have probably lived in the US for many generations.

I have no idea why they score lower. I was not making a claim to know. PP made a claim what they knew it wasn't.

You understand that difference, right?

And we are not talking about "the kid" taking the test, which is an absurd reference. We're talking about races of people and a policy designed by colleges to ensure they can get the students they want to build the class they need. These questions of why are gigantic academic and intellectual ones which we may never solve in our lifetime. However, we can ensure those reasons - whatever they are - don't continue to hurt people and stop colleges from building the class they want.

The "build the class they want" argument is the same argument that white people used way back to implement holistic admissions to keep out the Jews. It's basically social engineering in favor of one side over the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the troll that's flooding this thread lately wants everyone to know that Asians are the perfect model students. Ok.

Harvard will be 100% Asian in a few years.

Happy now?

Bye.

bye

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow this is crazy, you can be the 4th lowest decile aa and still be way above asians. crazy no wonder asians feel discriminated

Standardized tests are culturally biased and we're originally implemented by a racist.

If the index was normalized for tests, this alleged disparity ( SFFA is the source of this massaged data) would be much lower.

Anyways, the SAT / ACT impact will continue to diminish over time.

What are Asians and Whites in common but so much different for Blacks? culturally

What biase are we talking about?

What?

DP.. apparently, SATs are culturally bias, hence Black people score lower on SATs. But since Asian Americans score higher on SATs that must mean that they have more in common with white people.

That's the argument. And yes, it's laughable and ignorant.

Then what is your reason for AA people scoring lower?

Go ahead, say it out loud. I dare you. You know you think it. Have some courage and show everyone what you really think.

And that, right there, ladies and gents, is why colleges have the current policy.

not PP, but my guess is that they care less about education and put less effort.
Culturally they may value more in succeeding in the areas such as sports or entertainment industry like being a rapper or singer which are all ok. Nothing is wrong with that.

However if you want to improve on the education area, you have to go to the source of the problema and support and aid them to care more and put more effort in education instead of forcing it to increase the numbers artificially.

You actually did say it out loud! I am shocked! There it is, folks... your open racism of the day. Hope it is the last one you hear today, but unfortunately we are likely to get more.

PP you disgust me. You are repulsive. And also an imbecile. "Educate them more, but don't let them into the best colleges!" Lol.

Why are you mad??

The reason is simple on the surface, you care less and put less effort = lower score.
You care more and put more effort = higher score.

It's most likely a cultural thing. Asians probably care more about education and put more effort.

Seriously, what else could be the reason?

+1 work harder = better outcome. That applies to anyone, regardless of race, social economic background, or whether in academics or sports.

I tell my unathletic kid that if they want to be better at x sport, then they need to go outside and practice more, just as I tell them that if they want that A in math, then they need to study more.