What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

Unless mom thought there was no way she could make it up the hill and to help while carrying the baby.

Mom didn't make it very far once she separated from the others, so she must have been in bad shape. Presumably, leaving the baby with dad, who was too incapacitated to continue the hike and thus not in good condition to care for the baby, was the absolute last resort. She probably fretted about it too long, getting hotter and woozier all the time, before finally setting off on her own. How awful. It's easy for people sitting in their air-conditioned offices and houses to say no mother would leave her baby.

I suspect she had a brief moment of clarity in her last moments before she died and set off for help but just didn’t make it very far. She was beyond deciding whether or not to take the baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

+1 any mom with even a semblance of reason still about her takes the baby if she is trying to flee. I have thought the saddest possible scenario is that the baby passed out from heat stroke and couldn't be resuscitated and the parents just gave up and let the heat take them. But honestly, people survive walking days in the desert, it would still be surprising that BOTH died. And the dog.

That's a neat theory that heatstroke isn't a big deal. We have had a couple of deaths in Death Valley from heatstroke lately. Based on your theory, at least one of them should have survived.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/25/second-hiker-dies-within-days-from-heat-in-death-valley/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

+1 any mom with even a semblance of reason still about her takes the baby if she is trying to flee. I have thought the saddest possible scenario is that the baby passed out from heat stroke and couldn't be resuscitated and the parents just gave up and let the heat take them. But honestly, people survive walking days in the desert, it would still be surprising that BOTH died. And the dog.

That's a neat theory that heatstroke isn't a big deal. We have had a couple of deaths in Death Valley from heatstroke lately. Based on your theory, at least one of them should have survived.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/25/second-hiker-dies-within-days-from-heat-in-death-valley/

Here is one with data, where they aren't entirely sure it's heatstroke. They just have data of him wandering around in circles from his GPS watch. They think that might have been delirium. Or he was being chased by a boulder. He ran marathons. Five hours.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/pleasanton-runner-philip-kreycik-likely-died-from-heatstroke-in-106-degree-weather-investigators-say/

[Anonymous]

If the baby were in a carrier, you could still feel its legs and hear it. The other parent could check on it. Even if the baby died first, the parents if they could have saved themselves could have had another baby. People want to think the mom was the fitter one, but if you’re small hiking with a tall male, you basically have to take at least twice as many steps to keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the baby were in a carrier, you could still feel its legs and hear it. The other parent could check on it. Even if the baby died first, the parents if they could have saved themselves could have had another baby. People want to think the mom was the fitter one, but if you’re small hiking with a tall male, you basically have to take at least twice as many steps to keep up.

WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

+1 any mom with even a semblance of reason still about her takes the baby if she is trying to flee. I have thought the saddest possible scenario is that the baby passed out from heat stroke and couldn't be resuscitated and the parents just gave up and let the heat take them. But honestly, people survive walking days in the desert, it would still be surprising that BOTH died. And the dog.

That's a neat theory that heatstroke isn't a big deal. We have had a couple of deaths in Death Valley from heatstroke lately. Based on your theory, at least one of them should have survived.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/25/second-hiker-dies-within-days-from-heat-in-death-valley/

Here is one with data, where they aren't entirely sure it's heatstroke. They just have data of him wandering around in circles from his GPS watch. They think that might have been delirium. Or he was being chased by a boulder. He ran marathons. Five hours.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/pleasanton-runner-philip-kreycik-likely-died-from-heatstroke-in-106-degree-weather-investigators-say/

Because he wasn't found for almost a month, they weren't able to immediately determine that he died from the heat. Ordinarily it's not difficult.

Which proves that this family died from a different cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the baby were in a carrier, you could still feel its legs and hear it. The other parent could check on it. Even if the baby died first, the parents if they could have saved themselves could have had another baby. People want to think the mom was the fitter one, but if you’re small hiking with a tall male, you basically have to take at least twice as many steps to keep up.

WTF?

If the baby died first, you might still have the will to live, to have another baby.

[Anonymous]

I could see the baby having a medical emergency, the parents realizing and freaking out and exhausting themselves so much they collapse. But I would think the baby would be in their arms and not the carrier.

[Anonymous]

I don't get this "what mother would leave her baby" thing UNLESS the dad was the threat. I am a mom and if I were in trouble I'd absolutely trust my husband with the kids if for some reason we thought I had to be the one to get help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

+1 any mom with even a semblance of reason still about her takes the baby if she is trying to flee. I have thought the saddest possible scenario is that the baby passed out from heat stroke and couldn't be resuscitated and the parents just gave up and let the heat take them. But honestly, people survive walking days in the desert, it would still be surprising that BOTH died. And the dog.

That's a neat theory that heatstroke isn't a big deal. We have had a couple of deaths in Death Valley from heatstroke lately. Based on your theory, at least one of them should have survived.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/25/second-hiker-dies-within-days-from-heat-in-death-valley/

Here is one with data, where they aren't entirely sure it's heatstroke. They just have data of him wandering around in circles from his GPS watch. They think that might have been delirium. Or he was being chased by a boulder. He ran marathons. Five hours.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/pleasanton-runner-philip-kreycik-likely-died-from-heatstroke-in-106-degree-weather-investigators-say/

Because he wasn't found for almost a month, they weren't able to immediately determine that he died from the heat. Ordinarily it's not difficult.

Which proves that this family died from a different cause.

Jesus wept. No it does not prove the family died from something else. Philip's case is very similar to this he just had a less strenuous course. But of course, aliens and flying boulders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

+1 any mom with even a semblance of reason still about her takes the baby if she is trying to flee. I have thought the saddest possible scenario is that the baby passed out from heat stroke and couldn't be resuscitated and the parents just gave up and let the heat take them. But honestly, people survive walking days in the desert, it would still be surprising that BOTH died. And the dog.

That's a neat theory that heatstroke isn't a big deal. We have had a couple of deaths in Death Valley from heatstroke lately. Based on your theory, at least one of them should have survived.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/25/second-hiker-dies-within-days-from-heat-in-death-valley/

Here is one with data, where they aren't entirely sure it's heatstroke. They just have data of him wandering around in circles from his GPS watch. They think that might have been delirium. Or he was being chased by a boulder. He ran marathons. Five hours.

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/pleasanton-runner-philip-kreycik-likely-died-from-heatstroke-in-106-degree-weather-investigators-say/

Because he wasn't found for almost a month, they weren't able to immediately determine that he died from the heat. Ordinarily it's not difficult.

Which proves that this family died from a different cause.

Jesus wept. No it does not prove the family died from something else. Philip's case is very similar to this he just had a less strenuous course. But of course, aliens and flying boulders.

Okay. You know better than everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't get this "what mother would leave her baby" thing UNLESS the dad was the threat. I am a mom and if I were in trouble I'd absolutely trust my husband with the kids if for some reason we thought I had to be the one to get help.

If your husband and dog were keeling over from heat stroke, your instinct would be to try to get your baby out of there as quickly as possible, not leave her in the blazing sun for hours longer waiting for rescue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the baby were in a carrier, you could still feel its legs and hear it. The other parent could check on it. Even if the baby died first, the parents if they could have saved themselves could have had another baby. People want to think the mom was the fitter one, but if you’re small hiking with a tall male, you basically have to take at least twice as many steps to keep up.

WTF?

If the baby died first, you might still have the will to live, to have another baby.

If the child was in distress, they would have almost certainly tried cooling the child first with water. Likely from their water supply, and not the yet-to-be-proven toxic river. This would have only made their situation worse though and doomed them all.

[Anonymous]

An 8 mile high takes all day long. They were carrying the weight of the baby, and the weight of the packs with heavy water, with sun beating down on their heads with no shade and hot rocks reflecting heat back. If you don't wear a hat and stay hydrated, it's stressful on the heart and you pretty much fry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get this "what mother would leave her baby" thing UNLESS the dad was the threat. I am a mom and if I were in trouble I'd absolutely trust my husband with the kids if for some reason we thought I had to be the one to get help.

If your husband and dog were keeling over from heat stroke, your instinct would be to try to get your baby out of there as quickly as possible, not leave her in the blazing sun for hours longer waiting for rescue.

Assuming you weren't suffering from delirium.