What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

No ill immediate effects

[Anonymous]

Law enforcement initially treated it as a hazmat situation but lifted that the next day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

[Anonymous]

I’ve really come around to the heat stroke theory, but we’ve never once heard investigators say they think this is the most likely explanation or even hint at that. Have we? It is the most obvious explanation to the average person though, so some piece of critical info has not been released. I mean, don’t victims of heat stroke vomit all over themselves and take off as many layers as possible? Maybe there was no vomit residue. Maybe there was something about the way they were dressed that was off. Something else happened. Heat stroke is not such a big mystery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

+1 any mom with even a semblance of reason still about her takes the baby if she is trying to flee. I have thought the saddest possible scenario is that the baby passed out from heat stroke and couldn't be resuscitated and the parents just gave up and let the heat take them. But honestly, people survive walking days in the desert, it would still be surprising that BOTH died. And the dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

Unless mom thought there was no way she could make it up the hill and to help while carrying the baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

+1 any mom with even a semblance of reason still about her takes the baby if she is trying to flee. I have thought the saddest possible scenario is that the baby passed out from heat stroke and couldn't be resuscitated and the parents just gave up and let the heat take them. But honestly, people survive walking days in the desert, it would still be surprising that BOTH died. And the dog.

This is such bs.

[Anonymous]

It's kind of hard to take care of your own baby after you're already dead, and unnecessary if the baby is already dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don't believe they all could have died of heat stroke, I recommend the book "Over The Edge: Death in Grand Canyon". People rarely die of murder or from animal attacks. Guess what kills most of the people there? It can be amazing how quickly they perish from the heat. One of the saddest stories was about a pack of boy scouts who had adult leaders who were idiots. Even people who train and have adequate water perish.

Here's a short true story about heatstroke, it was interesting and scary

https://rescue911.fandom.com/wiki/Heatstroke_Hiker

[Anonymous]

The toxicology results can’t come fast enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

+1 any mom with even a semblance of reason still about her takes the baby if she is trying to flee. I have thought the saddest possible scenario is that the baby passed out from heat stroke and couldn't be resuscitated and the parents just gave up and let the heat take them. But honestly, people survive walking days in the desert, it would still be surprising that BOTH died. And the dog.

This is such bs.

It is BS that people survive for days? I mean it is uncommon but it happens. And this was like 5 hours and they weren't lost.

But honestly the biggest argument against heat stroke is the fact that the investigators are NOT acting like it is heat stroke. And as that is the most logical explanation they must have a reason to think otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The toxicology results can’t come fast enough.

Agreed. This is so sad and terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don't believe they all could have died of heat stroke, I recommend the book "Over The Edge: Death in Grand Canyon". People rarely die of murder or from animal attacks. Guess what kills most of the people there? It can be amazing how quickly they perish from the heat. One of the saddest stories was about a pack of boy scouts who had adult leaders who were idiots. Even people who train and have adequate water perish.

Here's a short true story about heatstroke, it was interesting and scary

https://rescue911.fandom.com/wiki/Heatstroke_Hiker

Wow. I posted upthread about global warming - we're all going to have to be careful about this stuff. Especially in the DC area where the humidity makes heat stroke even more dangerous.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-keep-clear-of-heatstroke-pay-attention-to-this-metric-11625823001

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP and I've read every post.

Two things related to PPs

1) Women tend to be more naturally well-equipped than men to handle things like ultramarathons and so on. It's fairly likely that a woman would last longer in harsh conditions than a man 15 years her senior.

2) For those asking what mother, even if poisoned, would abandon her baby... Besides the obvious, that you might not be thinking the most clearly! If the father poisoned them all approximately simultaneously (gave them poisoned water in quick succession) then the baby could have died first while the mother realized what was happening-- that is, she may have realized (or been told) there was no hope for the baby and just tried to save herself.

I think the family annihilation theory is quite far fetched at this point, but your (2) obviously works just fine if you substitute heatstroke for poison.

Re your (1), I do think it was the dad, perhaps plus either/both baby or dog, who was incapacitated first. I think they made the decision she should try to go for help or to get more water/snacks or first aid from the car while he rested with the other two. Re her fitness level, it was clearly high, but we don’t know if she wore herself out carrying the baby or dog part of the way or if she was possibly still breast-feeding the baby, which could have left her dehydrated.

If it’s heat and mom went ahead she is taking baby so she can put baby in car AC. Cooling down is the only thing that will help you if it’s heat related.

Unless mom thought there was no way she could make it up the hill and to help while carrying the baby.

Mom didn't make it very far once she separated from the others, so she must have been in bad shape. Presumably, leaving the baby with dad, who was too incapacitated to continue the hike and thus not in good condition to care for the baby, was the absolute last resort. She probably fretted about it too long, getting hotter and woozier all the time, before finally setting off on her own. How awful. It's easy for people sitting in their air-conditioned offices and houses to say no mother would leave her baby.