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Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...
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Anonymous
Yes, you've said what you had to say, but your reluctance to answer (or perhaps even consider) the difficult question posed in 16:22 really draws the venom from your feigned indignation. |
Anonymous
I'm sure you could. That's kinda the point. A novel is, of course, fiction. |
Anonymous
You don't read the "good" birth stories about hospitals because the vast majority of the 97% of women who choose a hospital delivery don't give a damn about their "birth story" and just want to have mother and baby safely tended to by a LICENSED physician, nurses and all the benefits that they perceive that modern medicine provides. I really didn't give a damn about my "journey" as long as it resulted in a healthy mother and baby, so I'm not going to bore people at parties with the details or blog about it or put pieces of my placenta in a scrapbook. |
Anonymous
You obviously haven't spent much time reading birth stories. Inserting fingers/objects into a vagina w/o permission IS rape...even at a hospital. It happens. |
Anonymous
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Back to the issue at hand -- Karen Carr had a little "license" issue in PA in 2004. She knew what she was getting into with this situation and licensing.
I still don't understand the political reasons behind no-license but if you are going to flirt with the law you may get caught. She did. |
Anonymous
But this is exactly the issue - people are so focused on the individual choices/decisions that they fail to look at the larger systemic failure of our society to give women access to the best care - which would be the opportunity to attempt a vaginal breech birth in a hospital with c-section available as a back-up. Since this option doesn't exist in the ENTIRE METROPOLITAN DC AREA with the exception of 1 doctor who may or may not be available on any given day, women are being forced to make compromises - either an automatic c-section or birth at home with the risk of complications. This is a failure of the U.S. medical system and should be thought of as such, not as one individual's choice. |
Anonymous
Don't feed the freaks. |
Anonymous
Love the unnecessary snark. Adds so much to the discussion. |
Anonymous
I think we can all agree that some people have wonderful birth experiences in the hospital and some horrible ones. But I think it is unfair to dismiss those with bad experiences just because it (fortunately) doesn't happen to everyone. Here's an example of a pretty horrible one: http://www.homebirth.net.au/2010/05/could-it-happen-at-your-hospital.html |
Anonymous
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I cannot believe the denialism prevalent in the past few pages of this thread about the fact that women get abused, coerced, bullied, and have things done to them without their consent in hospitals when they are in labor. Is this THE universal hospital experience? No, thank God. But talk to any doula (think what you will about the profession, but they witness a lot of births) and they will tell you that these things happen ALL THE TIME. I just a few days ago heard yet another story from a friend of a nurse who tried to break a mother's water without even informing her first what she was trying to do, much less asking for her consent. (Fortunately the mother caught on soon enough to tell her to stop, which also fortunately the nurse did ... though apparently that was not the only negative thing that happened during this woman's labor). Many, many women have experiences where they are treated with respect and caring in hospitals. Many, many others are not treated so well. Do I know the exact percentage? No. I do know that it seems to depend a lot on the hospital, and which nurse you get, and the attitude of the care provider, and the ability and willingness of the patient to be assertive if necessary. I also know that lower-income women are more likely to be treated with disrespect, but the same thing has happened to upper-income women I know.
Now, should knowing this type of treatment is a possibility in a hospital drive you to make decisions that jeopardize the life of your baby? No. But please, stop with the blanket rosy pronouncements about how great hospitals are and the absurd contention that people who home birth make things up about hospitals. For Christ's sake, a good portion of the home birth population are women who themselves have had those things happen to them in hospitals and don't want to experience it again. |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
I am afraid that just the fact that most of these anecdotes come from homebirth websites makes them suspect to many people. Of course that is where you would read dire stories, told through that person's lens. |
Anonymous
Just because a woman chooses a HB doesn't mean her bad experience is any less valid. Personally, I've read many of these stories on"mainstream" boards, heard about them from doula friends, heard about them directly, IRL from Mamas and have even experienced the abuse myself (though, thankfully not a birth rape). Just because it hasn't happened to gyou doesn't mean it doesn't happen. |
Anonymous
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I am an Board Certified OB/GYN provider that has delivered over 2500 babies. I have 3 children delivered vaginally and support midwives in my rural practice. I am acqauinted with some of the outcomes of K. Carr's deliveries- the good as well as some of the bad.
Most women will have good outcomes statistically no matter what. You need a skilled provider for those minority of cases when something goes wrong quickly and you have to recognize what is happening and intervene. I am not in a position to judge this particular situation as I am not privy to all of the facts of the case. I can say, that a first time mother (one who has never delivered vaginally) is subject to strict criteria for a breech extraction by todays standards. That includes footling breech, complete breech and frank breech. Ultrasound is required to check position at the time of labor and at times during delivery. According to ACOG Committee Opinion #340 - informed consent is required, strict weight criteria and position are absolutes, the maternal pelvis should be adequate- ie preferally delivered vaginally before-, amniotic fluid levels have to be adequate and labor progress should be normal. There are known standards of care and the same standards should apply to midwives. I know of no doctor who would labor a 43 year old first time mother in any breech presentation. That is typically an unacceptable risk to take. I have delivered vaginal breech babies and I have performed C-sections. I have never had a mother complain when I hand them a healthy newborn, but know of many who blame the doctor for not informing them of risks when something goes wrong. We have come a long way in obstetrics, to the extent that may women feel modern inervention is unnecessary. That is her choice. I can honestly say 95% of the time when something bad happens, despite informed consent, patient autonomy and the mother's wishes, the provider takes the blame....and often we should. We know more than you do. We have seen the good, the bad and the ugly. I have seen heads get stuck, horrible shoulder dystocias, DIC, amniotic fluid embolisms,abruptions and horrible maternal hemorrhages. That is the nature of the field. I am trained to recognize them. Obstetrics is a high risk speciality and one is prepared for the unthinkable, because emergencies can happen at any time under normal conditions. A good provider knows when they are outside of their realm of expertise and when they should transfer or ask for help. It is never good to demonize one group over another. There are OBs who are fantastic and those that are poor there are Midwives who are as well...and most of the time you are going to get a good outcome no matter what you do. There is room and necessity in our health care environment for both. As OBs we have a bulls eye on our back. We get the blame when something goes wrong and little praise when it goes right. To the extent that some women feel it is unnecessary to have us at all. I hope this episode will shine light on the need to have safe provders for every one regardless of where or whom you chose to deliver. I support a woman's right for options, I counsel all of my patients who desire home births where to go to deliver. This issue is one of judgement, and not one of where to deliver. Low risk pregnant woman can deliver safely at home. But low risk can turn to high risk instantly. A skillled support person is a must. In todays malpractice climate, I would not believe any provider who says they have a lot of experience delivering vaginal breech infants. That is because the overwhelming majority of babies are head down and most women who are breech deliver via C-Section. There are vanishingly few doctors who have the requisite skills to perform singleton vaginal breech extractions under the best conditions. My heart goes out to Karen Carr, no provider desires a bad outcome. It is my desire that the two modes of delivery can peacefully co-exist with certain common sense conditions. In a high risk situation. a healthy outcome trumps the mode and place of delivery every time. |
Anonymous
The story is ridiculous - it would require every member of the staff to have been part of the abuse conspiracy. Slammed, forced, threatened? Classical incision so she can NEVER TRY A VBAC AGAIN? Not particularly believable. |