Airplane noise concerns overblown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

Lived on a plane route once and it annoyed me. Lived not far from train tracks where I could hear trains in the distance. It didn’t bother me.

As others already said no airplane noise in Potomac.

I have a close friend that lives in Avenel and he complains about the noise all the time. I don't notice it as much at his house as I do at my brother-in-law's place in Georgetown. We can't even sit outside there because it it constant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

Lived on a plane route once and it annoyed me. Lived not far from train tracks where I could hear trains in the distance. It didn’t bother me.

As others already said no airplane noise in Potomac.

I have a close friend that lives in Avenel and he complains about the noise all the time. I don't notice it as much at his house as I do at my brother-in-law's place in Georgetown. We can't even sit outside there because it it constant.

The suffering will continue until people start calling their representatives en masse and demanding accountability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s weird to me that the palisades and surrounding neighborhoods have never mentioned Anacostia and Southern PG as similarly affected, even though the flight pattern often has low flying planes in that direction.

So weird they don’t seem to care about these communities. I wonder why that is…

Just reading this thread and the comments from 2023. What an excellent point and how very relevant right now.
Probably part of the reason is that PG county government seems to be asleep at the wheel so others feel they don't have to care either. Pg county residents deserve better.

Yes. When Vianair did the community survey the smallest number of respondents came from Accokeek! I am sure they did not realize how important it was because there was probably no proper outreach by the county. It is sad.
https://www.vianair.com/soa/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/SOA-Community-Survey-Results-Summary-v090224.pdf

I have not seen any information about the community meetings yet but the plan is to have everything finalized and sent to the FAA by mid march. We may witnessing the fastest public process ever.

Accokeek is in District 9 of Prince George's County. District 9 is huge and Accokeek in on the very edge of it which may be part of the problem. The council representative for that district in Sydney Harrison, 301-9523820, e-mail: [e-mail] if anybody has any questions. His offices are in Largo.

When the DCA Working Group first starting discussing extending South Flow SIDs (departures) farther towards Accokeek in January 2022, the FAA presented maps showing not just population density, but maps showing communities of low income and people of color. The discussion with maps is on pages two and three:

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2022-04/DCA%20CWG%20Final%20meeting%20Summary%201.27.2022.pdf

Some of the most interesting quotes:

"Implementing DCA SIDs would have negative impacts over State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) locations in VA and MD. • They also have to look at environmental justice demographics on the impact on minority and low income populations."

"On the environmental justice issue, has an assessment been made on whether minorities or low-income communities would be impacted?"

"Stephen Thayer: Where does that leave us? • Charles Armstead (FAA): In a nutshell, you want to develop a procedure to move the noise farther east over someone else’s neighborhood. • Stephen Thayer: No, it’s over the river. • Charles Armstead : Moving the track farther east could push the noise into other communities."

None of these issues were discussed at the last meeting so I wonder what has already been done or what is planned. Hopefully, it does not involve SHPO or other bureaucrats rubber stamping documents they don't fully understand.

[Anonymous]

Potomac as a rich, no-flight zone?! lol. Maybe 29 years ago. Thank you for the humor in the midst of airplane noise despair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s weird to me that the palisades and surrounding neighborhoods have never mentioned Anacostia and Southern PG as similarly affected, even though the flight pattern often has low flying planes in that direction.

So weird they don’t seem to care about these communities. I wonder why that is…

Just reading this thread and the comments from 2023. What an excellent point and how very relevant right now.
Probably part of the reason is that PG county government seems to be asleep at the wheel so others feel they don't have to care either. Pg county residents deserve better.

Yes. When Vianair did the community survey the smallest number of respondents came from Accokeek! I am sure they did not realize how important it was because there was probably no proper outreach by the county. It is sad.
https://www.vianair.com/soa/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/SOA-Community-Survey-Results-Summary-v090224.pdf

I have not seen any information about the community meetings yet but the plan is to have everything finalized and sent to the FAA by mid march. We may witnessing the fastest public process ever.

Accokeek is in District 9 of Prince George's County. District 9 is huge and Accokeek in on the very edge of it which may be part of the problem. The council representative for that district in Sydney Harrison, 301-9523820, e-mail: [e-mail] if anybody has any questions. His offices are in Largo.

When the DCA Working Group first starting discussing extending South Flow SIDs (departures) farther towards Accokeek in January 2022, the FAA presented maps showing not just population density, but maps showing communities of low income and people of color. The discussion with maps is on pages two and three:

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2022-04/DCA%20CWG%20Final%20meeting%20Summary%201.27.2022.pdf

Some of the most interesting quotes:

"Implementing DCA SIDs would have negative impacts over State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) locations in VA and MD. • They also have to look at environmental justice demographics on the impact on minority and low income populations."

"On the environmental justice issue, has an assessment been made on whether minorities or low-income communities would be impacted?"

"Stephen Thayer: Where does that leave us? • Charles Armstead (FAA): In a nutshell, you want to develop a procedure to move the noise farther east over someone else’s neighborhood. • Stephen Thayer: No, it’s over the river. • Charles Armstead : Moving the track farther east could push the noise into other communities."

None of these issues were discussed at the last meeting so I wonder what has already been done or what is planned. Hopefully, it does not involve SHPO or other bureaucrats rubber stamping documents they don't fully understand.

"Charles Armstead (FAA): In a nutshell, you want to develop a procedure to move the noise farther east over someone else’s neighborhood. • Stephen Thayer: No, it’s over the river. • Charles Armstead : Moving the track farther east could push the noise into other communities."

This is huge! The FAA is acknowledging that shifting planes to the river is not a panacea for noise. And it does not work for most people except for those who don't live near the river. The noise from departures does not stay directly under the plane but travels for miles on either side of the flight path. This aggressive push for shifting all the planes to the center of the river started with a small group of people on the DCA Working Group who wanted to use it to their advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the agenda items at the last Working Group meeting was a proposal for changing flight paths south of the airport. The areas affected are Fairfax County, Alexandria and Prince George's County. It involves both departures and arrivals.

Southbound departures currently travel along the Potomac River before making a turn to the west past Alexandria. The proposal eliminates the early turn over Alexandria/Fairfax County and extends the departure flight path further south to Accokeek. The goal is to allow airplanes to have an "unrestricted climb" so they could gain the altitude faster.

This is interesting because Montgomery County had the unrestricted climb scenario until a few years ago. However, Potomac residents did not like being near it and asked the FAA to introduce an early turn over Bethesda with the goal of stopping the airplanes from reaching Potomac. The airplanes that now make that early turn are very low and make a lot of noise.

So, if the Working Group thought the unrestricted climb was not good enough for Potomac in MoCo, why do they now believe it is good enough for Accokeek in Prince George's County?

The proposed solutions to the noise in Accokeek are minor. They involve a slight increase in the altitude of arrivals. All those who are involved with airplane noise know that 300 or 400 ft will make no difference. In fact, according to the Working Group a decrease in noise below 3db will not be audible to the human ear.

The Working Group continues to avoid discussions of decreasing the number of airplanes landing over Accokeek because there are those on the Working Group who refuse to share the noise equitably while only reaping benefits. Such solutions would not come from the consultant re-designing the flight path (it is not to his advantage anyways), but rather through direct talks between the Working Group participants and the FAA.

The explanation given for that particular design is that there are fewer people living in Accokeek and some further out parts of Fairfax than in Alexandria or other close-in communities. But the flight path for departures north of the airport was moved from scarcely populated compatible land to a densely populated area in Bethesda!

Are those less populated communities further out in Fairfax like Lorton or Occoquan represented on the Working Group? They will be affected. What is being done to reach out to them?

Public meetings will be held in PG, Alexandria and Fairfax County so that residents can learn about the proposal and decide on it. I hope this process will be transparent, well publicized, and will allow for full participation of all communities affected by the proposed changes.

Here's the presentation:
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2025-01/DCA%20SOA%20CWG%20Presentation%2020250123%20vFinal.pdf

One neighborhood that will be affected terribly by this is Mount Vernon. I don't see how anybody there would agree to this. You might as well move out now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s weird to me that the palisades and surrounding neighborhoods have never mentioned Anacostia and Southern PG as similarly affected, even though the flight pattern often has low flying planes in that direction.

So weird they don’t seem to care about these communities. I wonder why that is…

Just reading this thread and the comments from 2023. What an excellent point and how very relevant right now.
Probably part of the reason is that PG county government seems to be asleep at the wheel so others feel they don't have to care either. Pg county residents deserve better.

Yes. When Vianair did the community survey the smallest number of respondents came from Accokeek! I am sure they did not realize how important it was because there was probably no proper outreach by the county. It is sad.
https://www.vianair.com/soa/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/SOA-Community-Survey-Results-Summary-v090224.pdf

I have not seen any information about the community meetings yet but the plan is to have everything finalized and sent to the FAA by mid march. We may witnessing the fastest public process ever.

Just like in the case of PG County there was not much outreach in Fairfax County so it appears that most of the respondents to the survey came from Alexandria. Very few responses were submitted from Fairfax including Mount Vernon and from PG Co including Accokeek. It is here:

"Jim Allerdice provides updates on the progress of the survey and upcoming public meetings, mentions that Alexandria is the only jurisdiction that has pushed
information out so far."
https://www.vianair.com/soa/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/DCA-SoA-Committee-Design-Team-Meeting-8-Summary-20240515-FINAL.pdf

[Anonymous]

I live in Travilah rd. We keep hearing airplane noise nonstop. Like we are next to highway. Even they decided to change the route. This way is not fair to us. Right now is 10:02 pm and the whole 40 minutes I am sitting on couch I didn’t have even two minutes without noise.
I noticed the change in last three weeks. Nobody care? When I bought this house I pay attention to everything last two years ago. I can’t move again is not that simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in Travilah rd in MD.We keep hearing airplane noise nonstop. Like we are next to highway. Even they decided to change the route. This way is not fair to us. Right now is 10:02 pm and the whole 40 minutes I am sitting on couch I didn’t have even two minutes without noise.
I noticed the change in last three weeks. Nobody care? When I bought this house I pay attention to everything last two years ago. I can’t move again is not that simple. Should we get at least a warning!!!

[Anonymous]

A very dcum story:

Well, this fired back on you spectacularly, didn’t it OP?

— A Clearly Bothered Individual

😂 😂 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in Travilah rd. We keep hearing airplane noise nonstop. Like we are next to highway. Even they decided to change the route. This way is not fair to us. Right now is 10:02 pm and the whole 40 minutes I am sitting on couch I didn’t have even two minutes without noise.
I noticed the change in last three weeks. Nobody care? When I bought this house I pay attention to everything last two years ago. I can’t move again is not that simple.

Have you reached out to the Montgomery County representatives on the Community Noise Working Group?

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2025-03/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_12FEB2025.pdf

All the changes to flight paths over Montgomery County in the last few years were the result of the work of this group. Montgomery Co community representatives on that roundtable asked the FAA to scatter the arrivals over a wider area so the noise is not concentrated only over their own neighborhoods. You must be in one of the newly overflown communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A very dcum story:

Well, this fired back on you spectacularly, didn’t it OP?

— A Clearly Bothered Individual

😂 😂 😂

Very grateful to whoever started this thread. They deserve an award. There is no other place anywhere where you can find so much information about airplane noise in DMV. I would not bother with the first 30 pages though. Someone who clearly knew a lot about what was happening was trying to shut down the conversation, minimized the changes that were being discussed ("it was just a minor change to redistribute the noise") and called posters names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A very dcum story:

Well, this fired back on you spectacularly, didn’t it OP?

— A Clearly Bothered Individual

😂 😂 😂

Very grateful to whoever started this thread. They deserve an award. There is no other place anywhere where you can find so much information about airplane noise in DMV. I would not bother with the first 30 pages though. Someone who clearly knew a lot about what was happening was trying to shut down the conversation, minimized the changes that were being discussed ("it was just a minor change to redistribute the noise") and called posters names.

You are welcome. I have to say that 2 years into owning a house near the flight path I am still bothered on days when the aircraft are going northbound. Southbound is no problemo. My wife---bless her---is blissfully unaware and could not care less. I suspect most people living near the flight path fall in this latter category but if you are an unlucky soul cursed with compulsion, preternaturally good hearing, or some other kind of cognitive defect that makes you aware of airplanes, I advise you to think carefully before purchasing a home near the river. That said, if given the choice again, I would make the same choice and love living here---the pros outweigh the cons, although there are times when my faith is tested.

[Anonymous]

No you wouldn’t, don’t lie. Who would choose to live under a flight path knowing everything you’ve read in these pages even if you otherwise live under a rock?

“Cognitive defect that makes you aware of airplanes”. OP you’re an , but useful since the truth will out, and oh boy did it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No you wouldn’t, don’t lie. Who would choose to live under a flight path knowing everything you’ve read in these pages even if you otherwise live under a rock?

“Cognitive defect that makes you aware of airplanes”. OP you’re an , but useful since the truth will out, and oh boy did it.

I see the poster from the first 30 pages is still active. Have a nice life!