Boycott/ Divest and Pull your College App from All States which violate Our Daughters' Civil Rights

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

You sound like you know nothing about being pregnant and trying to have a healthy safe pregnancy. If you don't want a child you may choose to end the pregnancy.....but for most pregnant women that are trying not have a successful outcome you are not doing any of those things.

But the PP said it is not a person until born. Her body her choice right?

Proud pro-life mommy to three.

Your grasping at straws. Have 3 more if you want...or 6....or 10...... that's fantastic and none of my business. Your views on my reproductive journey are not welcome or of any consideration as it should be.

I’m against murder and since you are pro-murder, then my views are valid.

What are you, 6 years old? Your views on my reproductive journey have no validity or effect. Even if you stamp your feet

Your “reproductive journey”? Hysterical. Seems you are the one stamping your childless feet.

My children are hard earned like so many with fertility issues. And if you don't understand that reproductive technologies are next on the chopping block, you are not paying attention.

And if you don’t understand, that many who fought hard and lost hard, very hard, to carry children, that life is precious at every stage - you never paid attention.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

Is it ok to feed your kid crap food or expose them to secondhand smoke?

Parents have made bad choices since the beginning of time. Are you going to judge and penalize them next?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will.

DP. Right, but according to your "logic," a fetus is *not* a child, nor are you a parent until that fetus is born. Right? So why does it matter what we put into our bodies when pregnant? We'll wait.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

Is it ok to feed your kid crap food or expose them to secondhand smoke?

Parents have made bad choices since the beginning of time. Are you going to judge and penalize them next?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will.

Then act responsibly on the front end. Use birth control.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

I think it’s murder that some people are dying waiting for a kidney while others have two. They could save that recipient’s life and continue living themselves with a low risk medical procedure. How is this different?

So then, you yourself are a murderer if you currently have two kidneys? Wow. Your "logic" is really... something.
DP

My family has a history of genetic kidney disease. Don’t assume that I have two or that I don’t need one. Anyone who needs an organ (that people can survive without) should be able to get one from a live donor, if infertile women can carry signs that say, “I will adopt your baby!”
It is exactly the same thing. You can compel me to use my body to save the “life” of a fetus but not to save the actual life of a person? No.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

Is it? Generally speaking, being pregnant is a result of consensual actions. Its not like the babies are implanted by aliens and then harvested by doctors.

There are countless reasons why a woman may not want to be pregnant. She doesn’t need to justify any of those reasons to you.

That is a decision for her and her doctor.

That's why so many people limit the size of their families by using birth control in a consistent, responsible manner. Abortions should be for medical reasons, rape, and incest. Not for convenience or a backup plan for casual sex hookups.

Have you met any humans? Dumb fcks couldn’t wear a mask for 15 minutes during a deadly pandemic. You think they’ll remember to carefully use multiple contraceptives every single time they have sex?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

You sound like you know nothing about being pregnant and trying to have a healthy safe pregnancy. If you don't want a child you may choose to end the pregnancy.....but for most pregnant women that are trying not have a successful outcome you are not doing any of those things.

But the PP said it is not a person until born. Her body her choice right?

Proud pro-life mommy to three.

Your grasping at straws. Have 3 more if you want...or 6....or 10...... that's fantastic and none of my business. Your views on my reproductive journey are not welcome or of any consideration as it should be.

I’m against murder and since you are pro-murder, then my views are valid.

What are you, 6 years old? Your views on my reproductive journey have no validity or effect. Even if you stamp your feet

Your “reproductive journey”? Hysterical. Seems you are the one stamping your childless feet.

My children are hard earned like so many with fertility issues. And if you don't understand that reproductive technologies are next on the chopping block, you are not paying attention.

And if you don’t understand, that many who fought hard and lost hard, very hard, to carry children, that life is precious at every stage - you never paid attention.

Been through almost all of it and understand it just fine. These old shriveled men that are ruling over our rights can not say the same.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

Is it? Generally speaking, being pregnant is a result of consensual actions. Its not like the babies are implanted by aliens and then harvested by doctors.

Sometimes not, and even if it is, "consequences" is a value judgment that should not apply here. If a woman did everything on earth to get pregnant, and then her life circumstances change and she decides to end the pregnancy... THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED. Because of bodily autonomy. Do you want me to force you do certain things to your body, against your will? Then keep out of mine.

I’m perplexed by the “forced birth” construction and what it is intended to achieve. During a pregnancy resulting from consensual sex between adults, is there any point in time after which an abortion should be restricted? After viability, for example? After the first trimester? Are folks pushing for a Roe standard? Or pushing for elective abortions up to the point of birth? And if Roe is the standard, why isn’t generally banning abortion after the first trimester referred to as “forced birth”? I think Roe was a reasonable and practical way to balance the competing interests of the mother and developing baby, but it certainly isn’t the only reasonable balancing.

The only “restriction” should be working with doctor on the right decision. Doctors are well equipped to understand the situation (unlike politicians) and balance out the options.

That’s fundamentally different from the bright line tests in Roe, but could be workable if the AMA (and/or other appropriate medical ethics and self-regulatory bodies established and published guidelines). Like generally no abortion after [x] weeks, with exceptions when conditions (a, b, or c) are present, with medical licensure penalties for violating the established ethics, etc.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

You sound like you know nothing about being pregnant and trying to have a healthy safe pregnancy. If you don't want a child you may choose to end the pregnancy.....but for most pregnant women that are trying not have a successful outcome you are not doing any of those things.

DP. You haven't answered the PP's question. If you believe you're not actually carrying a person - until they're born, of course - then why are you careful not to do any of those things during pregnancy?

Just Google it and educated yourself about fetal development and the negative effects some of these substances can have or ask a doctor.

Whooooosh... I know all about fetal development. It's a rhetorical question. Why do you - whom I'm guessing does not believe a fetus is a human being - care what you put into your body while pregnant? If it's not a human being, then why worry?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

Is it ok to feed your kid crap food or expose them to secondhand smoke?

Parents have made bad choices since the beginning of time. Are you going to judge and penalize them next?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will.

Then act responsibly on the front end. Use birth control.

There are countless reasons why women may not want to be pregnant. Most have nothing to do with birth control.

And none of those women need to justify their reasons to you. Mind your own body.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

No it isn’t, and no you aren’t. You do it because it’s in the best interest of the fetus, who you hope develops into a healthy child. Many do not.

You're saying I'm not pro-choice, because I dared to ask this question? Wrong.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

I think it’s murder that some people are dying waiting for a kidney while others have two. They could save that recipient’s life and continue living themselves with a low risk medical procedure. How is this different?

So then, you yourself are a murderer if you currently have two kidneys? Wow. Your "logic" is really... something.
DP

My family has a history of genetic kidney disease. Don’t assume that I have two or that I don’t need one. Anyone who needs an organ (that people can survive without) should be able to get one from a live donor, if infertile women can carry signs that say, “I will adopt your baby!”
It is exactly the same thing. You can compel me to use my body to save the “life” of a fetus but not to save the actual life of a person? No.

This has got to be the worst attempt at an analogy I've ever seen. You make absolutely zero sense. Essentially, you're saying anyone walking around with two kidneys is a "murderer" because they could have/should have donated one of their kidneys. Do you even hear yourself?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

Is it? Generally speaking, being pregnant is a result of consensual actions. Its not like the babies are implanted by aliens and then harvested by doctors.

Sometimes not, and even if it is, "consequences" is a value judgment that should not apply here. If a woman did everything on earth to get pregnant, and then her life circumstances change and she decides to end the pregnancy... THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED. Because of bodily autonomy. Do you want me to force you do certain things to your body, against your will? Then keep out of mine.

I’m perplexed by the “forced birth” construction and what it is intended to achieve. During a pregnancy resulting from consensual sex between adults, is there any point in time after which an abortion should be restricted? After viability, for example? After the first trimester? Are folks pushing for a Roe standard? Or pushing for elective abortions up to the point of birth? And if Roe is the standard, why isn’t generally banning abortion after the first trimester referred to as “forced birth”? I think Roe was a reasonable and practical way to balance the competing interests of the mother and developing baby, but it certainly isn’t the only reasonable balancing.

The only “restriction” should be working with doctor on the right decision. Doctors are well equipped to understand the situation (unlike politicians) and balance out the options.

That’s fundamentally different from the bright line tests in Roe, but could be workable if the AMA (and/or other appropriate medical ethics and self-regulatory bodies established and published guidelines). Like generally no abortion after [x] weeks, with exceptions when conditions (a, b, or c) are present, with medical licensure penalties for violating the established ethics, etc.

I’m fine with AMA guidelines. Move all abortions to regulated hospitals, not clinics. Treat it like medical care. Cover it with insurance like other ob/gyn procedures.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

Is it? Generally speaking, being pregnant is a result of consensual actions. Its not like the babies are implanted by aliens and then harvested by doctors.

Sometimes not, and even if it is, "consequences" is a value judgment that should not apply here. If a woman did everything on earth to get pregnant, and then her life circumstances change and she decides to end the pregnancy... THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED. Because of bodily autonomy. Do you want me to force you do certain things to your body, against your will? Then keep out of mine.

I’m perplexed by the “forced birth” construction and what it is intended to achieve. During a pregnancy resulting from consensual sex between adults, is there any point in time after which an abortion should be restricted? After viability, for example? After the first trimester? Are folks pushing for a Roe standard? Or pushing for elective abortions up to the point of birth? And if Roe is the standard, why isn’t generally banning abortion after the first trimester referred to as “forced birth”? I think Roe was a reasonable and practical way to balance the competing interests of the mother and developing baby, but it certainly isn’t the only reasonable balancing.

The only “restriction” should be working with doctor on the right decision. Doctors are well equipped to understand the situation (unlike politicians) and balance out the options.

That’s fundamentally different from the bright line tests in Roe, but could be workable if the AMA (and/or other appropriate medical ethics and self-regulatory bodies established and published guidelines). Like generally no abortion after [x] weeks, with exceptions when conditions (a, b, or c) are present, with medical licensure penalties for violating the established ethics, etc.

And this is exactly what France and other European countries have. Abortion is legal only up to certain gestational weeks. After that, they have restrictions. Which is common sense.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

You are trying way too hard with this and it is tiresome.