Should kids that heavily prepped for the CoGat be allowed in AAP?

[Anonymous]

If you heavily prepped your kid so that they would get a strong CoGat score, does that mean they REALLY belong in AAP? Doesn't that defeat the original purpose of AAP?

[Anonymous]

How would you figure out who was who?

[Anonymous]

Yes.

You can prep all you want, if you’re not smart you’re not getting in. Prepping too much becomes useless and you’re just wasting your time, because the exam tests for critical thinking skills, and there’s only so much you can do to develop your skills to their max.

[Anonymous]

There is no way to discern whether, or how "heavily," a child prepped for the COGAT test. So the question is pointless: how would anyone prove or disprove that a child prepped too much?

[Anonymous]

It’s pretty clear from all the complaints in this forum this spring that test scores are only getting kids into the pool for consideration. GBRS and work samples carry the day. Administrators are clued in to prepping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty clear from all the complaints in this forum this spring that test scores are only getting kids into the pool for consideration. GBRS and work samples carry the day. Administrators are clued in to prepping.

I think this is true, up to a point. However, my kid was initially rejected a few years ago with CogAt and NNAT scores <5 points below the cutoff. We did not prep, and DC got in on appeal with a WISC. I can absolutely see why someone would be tempted to prep and save the $$ on a WISC after the first borderline test. I suspect if we'd done it, the CogAt would have been above the cutoff and the WISC wouldn't have been needed for admission. I can't guarantee the scores would've been higher if we'd prepped, but I'd bet any amount of money that it wouldn't have hurt. There are a ton of prep centers right around our house that stake their reputations on this, and they have been in business for years.

[Anonymous]

In answer to the title question - maybe. Just because a child was prepped does not mean they could not have gotten in “naturally” (for lack of a better term). The problem is there is no way to know (i.e. no way to know who prepped as well as if someone did what difference it made).

As far as the idea prepping doesn’t matter because if you’re jot smart you aren’t getting in, even if that were true that doesn’t address kids who dis not get in but also didn’t prep and could have done the same or better as those who prepped, and therefore would have gotten in.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think it matters too much as long as the kid is a good candidate otherwise. That’s why I like the holistic approach. The committee doesn’t just look at one data point, but many.

[Anonymous]

I hate the way the holistic approach is used to guess which kids may have prepped and keep them out of a program for which they're clearly smart enough. If a kid scores over 140 on the tests, then the kid should automatically be admitted. If the kid is in-pool on both NNAT and CogAT and is above grade level in reading and math, then the kid also is more than capable of handling AAP, even if the scores are a bit inflated from prepping.

The committee will never know who actually prepped, so they can only guess based on whether or not the teacher rated the kid highly. Since prepping only leads to a 5-10 point increase, it kills me to see kids with high test scores and above grade level in everything get rejected due to the holistic approach. Some of those kids probably didn't even prep. The teacher just didn't like the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate the way the holistic approach is used to guess which kids may have prepped and keep them out of a program for which they're clearly smart enough. If a kid scores over 140 on the tests, then the kid should automatically be admitted. If the kid is in-pool on both NNAT and CogAT and is above grade level in reading and math, then the kid also is more than capable of handling AAP, even if the scores are a bit inflated from prepping.

The committee will never know who actually prepped, so they can only guess based on whether or not the teacher rated the kid highly. Since prepping only leads to a 5-10 point increase, it kills me to see kids with high test scores and above grade level in everything get rejected due to the holistic approach. Some of those kids probably didn't even prep. The teacher just didn't like the kid.

Wait—so you personally know kids who were in pool with both tests and above level in math & reading AND not admitted? How many of these kids do you know for sure were not admitted?

[Anonymous]

Dude, people have been posting on here all
month about that exact situation. ^^^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dude, people have been posting on here all
month about that exact situation. ^^^

Actually, no. In this 26 page thread with test scores and acceptances/rejections, there are only 2 posts where the student had BOTH scores above 132 AND they were rejected. One of them is questionable because the author of the post also noted they were not in-pool, which would be incorrect. But in every other instance where a student was rejected, there was one score that was below 132.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/796281.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you heavily prepped your kid so that they would get a strong CoGat score, does that mean they REALLY belong in AAP? Doesn't that defeat the original purpose of AAP?

Behind this question is somehow the notion that there's some way to measure "true" aptitude, and that public programs such as AAP should reward this "true" aptitude rather than rely on actual performance that results when aptitude and practice is combined.

I have a strong emotional reaction to that. I think it's pseudo science. But foremost, there's the unfairness inherent in this view. There are plenty of resources to prepare for CogAT and similar tests. I do not know how effective they are, but it seems to me that if you're asked to take a test, you prepare for it. (Do you prepare for a final exam? SAT/ACT? GRE? I know I practiced weeks until I made sure I would get a perfect GRE/Analytical score every time.)
To say that you shouldn't prepare when preparation is available strikes me as deeply unfair and hypocritical since obviously some will prepare.

(I'm saying this as someone who gave permission to our GT to perform "unspecified" testing and assessment for gifted identification. Later we saw DD's 149 combined score and looked up what CogAT stood for. Success for us, but I would have kicked myself had things gone differently. How dare they administer tests without sharing how to prep for them. Left a really bad taste. Not in FCPS, obviously, since there everyone seems to be obsessed with CogAT, which btw multiplies the fairness and hypocrisy aspect.)

BTW, what do the AART teachers tell parents? Your kid will take this test, but don't prepare them? Or some kind of lie that prepping wouldn't affect performance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you heavily prepped your kid so that they would get a strong CoGat score, does that mean they REALLY belong in AAP? Doesn't that defeat the original purpose of AAP?

Behind this question is somehow the notion that there's some way to measure "true" aptitude, and that public programs such as AAP should reward this "true" aptitude rather than rely on actual performance that results when aptitude and practice is combined.

I have a strong emotional reaction to that. I think it's pseudo science. But foremost, there's the unfairness inherent in this view. There are plenty of resources to prepare for CogAT and similar tests. I do not know how effective they are, but it seems to me that if you're asked to take a test, you prepare for it. (Do you prepare for a final exam? SAT/ACT? GRE? I know I practiced weeks until I made sure I would get a perfect GRE/Analytical score every time.)
To say that you shouldn't prepare when preparation is available strikes me as deeply unfair and hypocritical since obviously some will prepare.

(I'm saying this as someone who gave permission to our GT to perform "unspecified" testing and assessment for gifted identification. Later we saw DD's 149 combined score and looked up what CogAT stood for. Success for us, but I would have kicked myself had things gone differently. How dare they administer tests without sharing how to prep for them. Left a really bad taste. Not in FCPS, obviously, since there everyone seems to be obsessed with CogAT, which btw multiplies the fairness and hypocrisy aspect.)

BTW, what do the AART teachers tell parents? Your kid will take this test, but don't prepare them? Or some kind of lie that prepping wouldn't affect performance?

I'm not sure how old you are. In years past, no one prepped or practiced or studied for the SATs and they were considered an IQ test proxy. There were scandals and eventually practicing for the SAT was no longer wrong. And the SATs are no longer an IQ proxy.

There's no reason to prep for the Cogat besides getting into a gifted program. I appreciate AAP for my gifted kid and appreciate gen ed for my other kid.

[Anonymous]

I doubt anyone is trying to prep their average kids into the program. They're worried about the arbitrariness of the system and want to make sure that their bright, advanced children get in. If your child is capable of doing the work, why risk having that child get rejected?

I didn't prep for my older child, and the kid was rejected with a 130 CogAT, 15 GBRS, and above grade level in math and reading. I wish I had prepped, because even a few extra points on the CogAT would have spared me from having to pay for IQ testing.