That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Even if she was totally on board and left that party with him willingly, even if she had gone behind the dumpsters and had willingly begun to fool around with him, the minute she became unresponsive and unaware of her surroundings he needed to stop immediately. We don't know what happened or how they ended up behind the dumpsters.

The Swedes apparently saw what they thought was a rape. I haven't read their statements so I don't know exactly what they have described seeing. But it sounds as though they saw this guy dry humping this half naked, passed out girl - and that is what led them to chase him and tackle him.

No one knows how much these two were doing together before she passed out. It could be that she was actively fooling around with him and that her underwear was removed by her - we don't know. Maybe she passed out on the sidewalk and he dragged her unconscious body behind the dumpster and proceeded to remove her clothes and assault her. We don't know.

One thing that we do know is that no woman on God's green earth would ever want to be in a situation like this. This woman has been violated so many times - by this guy shoving his fingers into her or at least dry humping her passed out body, by the cops photographing her half naked passed out body, by the complete rape kit exam (swabbing, dye, more stuff shoved into her) and the additional crime photographs of her naked body. Now the trial and seeing all of that graphic evidence splayed out for all to see.

As a woman, this whole process absolutely sickens me. But I also see how - because of her drunken, unresponsive state the authorities had no more idea what happened to this woman than she did.

If f the Swedes hadn't come by, whatever he had done before or after she passed out, she never would have known. Nobody would have known, not her, not us.

Yep. There are lots of levels of scary to this whole thing. Ladies do not allow yourself to ever, EVER get this drunk.

Assaults can happen to anyone but at least be in a state to be a good advocate and witness for yourself. Look out for YOU.

There is no amount of non-drinking that will prevent a rape. Sometimes you fall unconscious, due to spiking or slipping something in your drink, even if you turn away for a second, or have your drink brought by a trusted same-sex friend. Shit happens.

The only thing that can prevent rape, is to just not rape someone. There is NO amount of perfect protection a woman can take.

Teach your sons not to rape girls and women. You may think it goes without saying, but clearly it does not. That's how you prevent rape - not by staying sober.

Okay. Thanks!

You think you're being cute, but PP is correct.

In a perfect world in which all parents will teach their sons to be responsible for their own behavior and never take advantage of others and rape or engage in other criminal behavior, sure. Since that's not the case, it's absurd to say that staying sober and alert doesn't help. No one on this thread has said there's perfect protection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

What exactly is my mentality - that I share with Brock's dad?

FWIW we do teach our girls to respect other people, personal space, and "no/stop".

But I don't think they are likely rapists. Who are these kids - boys - that I should be teaching? How exactly do I do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Even if she was totally on board and left that party with him willingly, even if she had gone behind the dumpsters and had willingly begun to fool around with him, the minute she became unresponsive and unaware of her surroundings he needed to stop immediately. We don't know what happened or how they ended up behind the dumpsters.

The Swedes apparently saw what they thought was a rape. I haven't read their statements so I don't know exactly what they have described seeing. But it sounds as though they saw this guy dry humping this half naked, passed out girl - and that is what led them to chase him and tackle him.

No one knows how much these two were doing together before she passed out. It could be that she was actively fooling around with him and that her underwear was removed by her - we don't know. Maybe she passed out on the sidewalk and he dragged her unconscious body behind the dumpster and proceeded to remove her clothes and assault her. We don't know.

One thing that we do know is that no woman on God's green earth would ever want to be in a situation like this. This woman has been violated so many times - by this guy shoving his fingers into her or at least dry humping her passed out body, by the cops photographing her half naked passed out body, by the complete rape kit exam (swabbing, dye, more stuff shoved into her) and the additional crime photographs of her naked body. Now the trial and seeing all of that graphic evidence splayed out for all to see.

As a woman, this whole process absolutely sickens me. But I also see how - because of her drunken, unresponsive state the authorities had no more idea what happened to this woman than she did.

If f the Swedes hadn't come by, whatever he had done before or after she passed out, she never would have known. Nobody would have known, not her, not us.

Yep. There are lots of levels of scary to this whole thing. Ladies do not allow yourself to ever, EVER get this drunk.

Assaults can happen to anyone but at least be in a state to be a good advocate and witness for yourself. Look out for YOU.

There is no amount of non-drinking that will prevent a rape. Sometimes you fall unconscious, due to spiking or slipping something in your drink, even if you turn away for a second, or have your drink brought by a trusted same-sex friend. Shit happens.

The only thing that can prevent rape, is to just not rape someone. There is NO amount of perfect protection a woman can take.

Teach your sons not to rape girls and women. You may think it goes without saying, but clearly it does not. That's how you prevent rape - not by staying sober.

Okay. Thanks!

You think you're being cute, but PP is correct.

In a perfect world in which all parents will teach their sons to be responsible for their own behavior and never take advantage of others and rape or engage in other criminal behavior, sure. Since that's not the case, it's absurd to say that staying sober and alert doesn't help. No one on this thread has said there's perfect protection.

+1000

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why anyone still things rape is complicated, with all these "but what if" or suggestions to girls/women.

Women can rape. They very rarely do, but it's not impossible. Going out late at night, drinking alcohol, I have NEVER been in a questionable situation about consent with a man. Never.

All these "what if" scenarios are ridiculous. And if there's an iota of doubt, then don't! It's that simple. There is never any gray area. Consent is not some rocket science or difficult thing to figure out, even if you've had a couple of drinks.

This entitled racist man obviously knew what he was doing was wrong - he just chose to ignore that semblance of a moral compass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

What exactly is my mentality - that I share with Brock's dad?

FWIW we do teach our girls to respect other people, personal space, and "no/stop".

But I don't think they are likely rapists. Who are these kids - boys - that I should be teaching? How exactly do I do that?

You asked for suggestions, I provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Even if she was totally on board and left that party with him willingly, even if she had gone behind the dumpsters and had willingly begun to fool around with him, the minute she became unresponsive and unaware of her surroundings he needed to stop immediately. We don't know what happened or how they ended up behind the dumpsters.

The Swedes apparently saw what they thought was a rape. I haven't read their statements so I don't know exactly what they have described seeing. But it sounds as though they saw this guy dry humping this half naked, passed out girl - and that is what led them to chase him and tackle him.

No one knows how much these two were doing together before she passed out. It could be that she was actively fooling around with him and that her underwear was removed by her - we don't know. Maybe she passed out on the sidewalk and he dragged her unconscious body behind the dumpster and proceeded to remove her clothes and assault her. We don't know.

One thing that we do know is that no woman on God's green earth would ever want to be in a situation like this. This woman has been violated so many times - by this guy shoving his fingers into her or at least dry humping her passed out body, by the cops photographing her half naked passed out body, by the complete rape kit exam (swabbing, dye, more stuff shoved into her) and the additional crime photographs of her naked body. Now the trial and seeing all of that graphic evidence splayed out for all to see.

As a woman, this whole process absolutely sickens me. But I also see how - because of her drunken, unresponsive state the authorities had no more idea what happened to this woman than she did.

If f the Swedes hadn't come by, whatever he had done before or after she passed out, she never would have known. Nobody would have known, not her, not us.

Yep. There are lots of levels of scary to this whole thing. Ladies do not allow yourself to ever, EVER get this drunk.

Assaults can happen to anyone but at least be in a state to be a good advocate and witness for yourself. Look out for YOU.

There is no amount of non-drinking that will prevent a rape. Sometimes you fall unconscious, due to spiking or slipping something in your drink, even if you turn away for a second, or have your drink brought by a trusted same-sex friend. Shit happens.

The only thing that can prevent rape, is to just not rape someone. There is NO amount of perfect protection a woman can take.

Teach your sons not to rape girls and women. You may think it goes without saying, but clearly it does not. That's how you prevent rape - not by staying sober.

Okay. Thanks!

You think you're being cute, but PP is correct.

Thank you for posting this! 100% spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why anyone still things rape is complicated, with all these "but what if" or suggestions to girls/women.

Women can rape. They very rarely do, but it's not impossible. Going out late at night, drinking alcohol, I have NEVER been in a questionable situation about consent with a man. Never.

All these "what if" scenarios are ridiculous. And if there's an iota of doubt, then don't! It's that simple. There is never any gray area. Consent is not some rocket science or difficult thing to figure out, even if you've had a couple of drinks.

This entitled racist man obviously knew what he was doing was wrong - he just chose to ignore that semblance of a moral compass.

^ that should have been "rapist" not "racist" - autocorrect fail!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

And how about, women are not puzzles to solve so you can score. Women are human beings, and sex is not the end goal of an obstacle course.

So who are these boys I can teach and how do I do this given that I'm not their parent/teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Even if she was totally on board and left that party with him willingly, even if she had gone behind the dumpsters and had willingly begun to fool around with him, the minute she became unresponsive and unaware of her surroundings he needed to stop immediately. We don't know what happened or how they ended up behind the dumpsters.

The Swedes apparently saw what they thought was a rape. I haven't read their statements so I don't know exactly what they have described seeing. But it sounds as though they saw this guy dry humping this half naked, passed out girl - and that is what led them to chase him and tackle him.

No one knows how much these two were doing together before she passed out. It could be that she was actively fooling around with him and that her underwear was removed by her - we don't know. Maybe she passed out on the sidewalk and he dragged her unconscious body behind the dumpster and proceeded to remove her clothes and assault her. We don't know.

One thing that we do know is that no woman on God's green earth would ever want to be in a situation like this. This woman has been violated so many times - by this guy shoving his fingers into her or at least dry humping her passed out body, by the cops photographing her half naked passed out body, by the complete rape kit exam (swabbing, dye, more stuff shoved into her) and the additional crime photographs of her naked body. Now the trial and seeing all of that graphic evidence splayed out for all to see.

As a woman, this whole process absolutely sickens me. But I also see how - because of her drunken, unresponsive state the authorities had no more idea what happened to this woman than she did.

If f the Swedes hadn't come by, whatever he had done before or after she passed out, she never would have known. Nobody would have known, not her, not us.

Yep. There are lots of levels of scary to this whole thing. Ladies do not allow yourself to ever, EVER get this drunk.

Assaults can happen to anyone but at least be in a state to be a good advocate and witness for yourself. Look out for YOU.

There is no amount of non-drinking that will prevent a rape. Sometimes you fall unconscious, due to spiking or slipping something in your drink, even if you turn away for a second, or have your drink brought by a trusted same-sex friend. Shit happens.

The only thing that can prevent rape, is to just not rape someone. There is NO amount of perfect protection a woman can take.

Teach your sons not to rape girls and women. You may think it goes without saying, but clearly it does not. That's how you prevent rape - not by staying sober.

Okay. Thanks!

You think you're being cute, but PP is correct.

You've omitted opportunity. Why do you think Hannah Graham was targeted?

Thank you for posting this! 100% spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

What exactly is my mentality - that I share with Brock's dad?

FWIW we do teach our girls to respect other people, personal space, and "no/stop".

But I don't think they are likely rapists. Who are these kids - boys - that I should be teaching? How exactly do I do that?

You asked for suggestions, I provided.

But you want me to stop focusing on protecting my girls and try to stop racists. How can I do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

What exactly is my mentality - that I share with Brock's dad?

FWIW we do teach our girls to respect other people, personal space, and "no/stop".

But I don't think they are likely rapists. Who are these kids - boys - that I should be teaching? How exactly do I do that?

You asked for suggestions, I provided.

But you want me to stop focusing on protecting my girls and try to stop racists. How can I do that?

I never said stop focusing on protecting your girls. I've said numerous times in this thread that everyone is responsible for their personal safety. What I don't agree with is continuing this discussion based on the premise that the victim should've or could've done more to prevent her attack. The problem is that the guy is a rapist and there was nothing she could do about that. So part of the problem here is that everyone needs to do what they can to just further the message that rape is never right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

What exactly is my mentality - that I share with Brock's dad?

FWIW we do teach our girls to respect other people, personal space, and "no/stop".

But I don't think they are likely rapists. Who are these kids - boys - that I should be teaching? How exactly do I do that?

You asked for suggestions, I provided.

But you want me to stop focusing on protecting my girls and try to stop racists. How can I do that?

Teaching our girls and boys how to take steps to protect themselves IS important, along with teaching them how to treat others. Hannah Graham's parents have openly wept as they wished Hannah had made some different choices re her personal safety.

[Anonymous]

This article was in today's Washington Post. Colleges With Most Reports of Rape. Stanford made the top ten list though I still think Stanford is a good school academically.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/06/07/these-colleges-have-the-most-reports-of-rape/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

And how about, women are not puzzles to solve so you can score. Women are human beings, and sex is not the end goal of an obstacle course.

So who are these boys I can teach and how do I do this given that I'm not their parent/teacher?

You're being facetious here, but regardless: teach your girls to expect and demand that they will be treated as human beings. Teach them to speak up when they see women and girls being belittled.

[Anonymous]

It's not only that he did it, it's that he's trying to escape the consequences and Daddy & the Stanford alumni Judge are helping him. Grow up and deal with your new life, Brock. Daddy, you need to grow up too and recognize that you raised a rapist. That's the real life sentence, here in the digital age.