Fire in upper NW?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a stretch, but I would hope MPD has done at least the following: Subpoena Google or Apple to hand over any phones that reported GPS coordinates in the Woodley Park area and then reported again to the area where the Porsche was left burning. I can't imagine there being many phones that travel between Woodley Park and PG County that day. This is assuming the perpetrators had Android phones and GPS turned on, but you never know.

I sure hope they haven't. A blanket subpeana for all phones? Where's the probable cause?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the theory of holding the family in the house with one perp while the other drove to the bank with the mom or dad to order a wire transfer.
Perhaps the they arrived too late on Wed. to make that happen? They need to be ordered before 2:00 at our bank.
Could the delay in leaving the house be caused be a time difference between the east coast and the receiving bank (and therefore the confirmation of funds)?

Wouldn't that be risky letting her speak to the teller. At our bank our teller would be suspicious if someone other than my kids or husband came up to the window with me to wire money.

Yes, I was the one above who said too risky. And obv if she went in alone she would have them call the police.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the theory of holding the family in the house with one perp while the other drove to the bank with the mom or dad to order a wire transfer.
Perhaps the they arrived too late on Wed. to make that happen? They need to be ordered before 2:00 at our bank.
Could the delay in leaving the house be caused be a time difference between the east coast and the receiving bank (and therefore the confirmation of funds)?

Wouldn't that be risky letting her speak to the teller. At our bank our teller would be suspicious if someone other than my kids or husband came up to the window with me to wire money.

Yes, I was the one above who said too risky. And obv if she went in alone she would have them call the police.

And you don't need to go to a bank to do a wire transfer anyway.... No need to leave the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the theory of holding the family in the house with one perp while the other drove to the bank with the mom or dad to order a wire transfer.
Perhaps the they arrived too late on Wed. to make that happen? They need to be ordered before 2:00 at our bank.
Could the delay in leaving the house be caused be a time difference between the east coast and the receiving bank (and therefore the confirmation of funds)?

Wouldn't that be risky letting her speak to the teller. At our bank our teller would be suspicious if someone other than my kids or husband came up to the window with me to wire money.

Yes, I was the one above who said too risky. And obv if she went in alone she would have them call the police.

So where does a quadruple homocidial maniac go in the middle of his crime? Or did he leave for good and then joy ride for six hours. I cannot even imagine what that was all about.

[Anonymous]

In the Petit case, the criminals sent the wife in to the bank alone. Under threat of her family back home no doubt. But that is how the wife managed to have a conversation with the teller and tell her a bit of what was going on and the teller had the where with all to immediately call the police after the wife left. The teller's call to 911 is online in that case. But agreed, it's a huge risk to take either way -- go in to the bank and you are definitely on video surveillence and the teller may be suspicious if they indeed know their clients and family. OR don't go in and hope the wife believes your threat that you will harm her 10 year old if she makes a peep. But if it's a wire transfer maybe they just did it online and it took X hours (12 hours?) to hit the criminal's account, but didn't require an actual visit to the bank?

[Anonymous]

Housekeeper #2 didn't respond to the voice mails. I don't think them calling and texting more than once is off. I'm sure the phone records of the housekeeper have already been taken by the cops.

I don't understand the delay between Wednesday evening and Thursday at 1:30. That's a lot of time. The delay between fire and the car fire seems weird too. It's not very far to drive. Why not ditch it sooner if it was stolen from a home where 4 people died.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could it be that it was someone Housekeeper#2 knows but that she was not in on it? Maybe they wanted to make sure she didn't show up?

+1 I don't think she is involved. However, I think the perpetrator(s) could be someone that envied her wealthy employer and nice work conditions and devised a crime of opportunity unbeknownst to her and did not want her there.

[Anonymous]

If they really did transfer money to the killers, or somebody associated them, the police would have them identified by now using the transfer records, no? They just need to know which routing numbers the transfer went to and subpoena the receiving bank for the account holder's information.

[Anonymous]

to me it looks like only part of the second floor burned up. there should be some evidence on lower floor or other rooms. i think when mobster professionals do this they burn the whole house down to the ground. plus, i cannot image pros sticking around for twenty-four hours. then it looks like they take the car out in the middle of it all like they forgot something! criminals are stupid. they always leave something undone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could it be that it was someone Housekeeper#2 knows but that she was not in on it? Maybe they wanted to make sure she didn't show up?

+1 I don't think she is involved. However, I think the perpetrator(s) could be someone that envied her wealthy employer and nice work conditions and devised a crime of opportunity unbeknownst to her and did not want her there.

+1

[Anonymous]

Well, if wire transfer traceable. I think surviving housekeeper not in on it...she just seems dumb.
In terms of arm chair sleuth I agree with many of his points. The racial profiling thing on Fox was that knives are often a preferred weapon of Latinos. Black men more likely to use guns. This is based on years of experience and facts of criminal cases.
The knife thing also connects to the husbands strange interest in martial arts using swords. If you look at who he followed in various chat rooms this is weird. No way around it. Maybe some think violent martial arts using weapons is norm but it is anything but for woodland drive and the cathedral...curiouser and curiouser...down the rabbit hole we go.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My first thought, upon reading the Washington Post article, was that this was unfortunately a case of familiscide, in which the housekeeper Mrs. Figueroa, was a collateral victim.

Why, I thought, would Mr. Savopoulos supposedly have told the other housekeeper, Mrs. Gutierrez, in advance, to come to a work site on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday of that particular week, instead of coming to clean his house on Thursday, as was her regular schedule. If that request was indeed simply for business-related reasons, then Mrs. Gutierrez is very fortunate.

A previous poster asked if anyone saw Savvas at work on Wednesday morning. The housekeeper who was not in the house, Mrs. Gutierrez, reported that she allegedly spoke to Savaas in person on the Chantilly job site on Wednesday morning. It was there that Mr. Savopoulos supposedly mentioned to Mrs. Gutierrez that his wife had plans to go out that night.

Then there is the fact that Mr. Savopoulos, assuming the contents of the alleged voicemails and text are confirmed, is the only person we know for certain was still alive in the house on Wednesday evening.

Finally there is the speculation regarding Mr. Savopoulos's extensive martial arts training and experience. Someone with that experience and traing could presumably take down a person or persons, particularly if they confronted those persons one by one throughout the day. And the may well have sustained blunt force injuries themselves in the ensuing struggle.

Of course, there is the loose end of the burned out vehicle discovered burning at some remote location more than five hours after the firefighters found the bodies in the house. It is possible that Mr. Savopoulos could have retained someone he knew to be capable of unorthodox jobs, to take the car away and torch it. The person might have known not to ask questions, thinking perhaps it was part of an insurance scam, but in no way knowing that the vehicle was related to the murders until later. (Why do this? For life insurance reasons, or to save your reputation among surviving family and friends.)

That last paragraph would require so much advanced planning by Savvas, and is just so forced into the narrative, that I no longer believe this was familicide, but rather a more common, amateur theft gone terribly awry.

You realize that Savopoulos was one of the victims, right?

I know that now, of course, as the police have determined that all four were victims.

Imagine a man is assaulted on the street by an assailant with a knife. The victim also carries a knife, and he fights off the assailant to the death. You come run across the two men dead on the street, both have sustained numerous knife wounds and other injuries. Initially, how do you know which one is the assailant and which one is the victim?

The assailant in this case got away. Are you reading about the same case? Whoever killed them took the car.

The point I am hung up on is this. There was allegedly a repeated emphasis that week on NOT having Mrs. Gutierrez come to work at the Savoloupos house that fateful Thursday.

First, Mr. Savoloupos allegedly orders Mrs. Gutierrez - earlier that week, or perhaps the previous week - to NOT come to the Savoloupos house on Thursday, but instead to work at the Chantilly work site on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday. Why did Mr. Savoloupos order Mrs. Gutierrez NOT to come on Thursday (if, in fact, he did so)? Was it simply a lucky coincidence for Mrs. Gutierrez? Did Mr. Savoloupos know something about that Thursday in advance? Or is the story not, in fact, true?

Second, Mrs. Gutierrez - while she is at work cleaning another house on a day she would otherwise be working at the Savoloupos house - receives a text from the phone of Mrs. Savoloupos to make sure she will NOT come to work at the Savoloupos house that day.

Before I read that all of the victims were in fact dead before the fire began, I wondered (as in an Agatha Christie mystery) if Mr. Savoloupos had planned the murders (For what purpose? Escape from financial problems? Insurance for his survivors? Anger at an affair?), thus his instruction re-arranging Mrs. Gutierrez's schedule to keep her away from the house on Thursday. He would have sustained blunt force trauma in the struggle to kill three other people, of course, and then subsequently set the fire to kill himself and cover up the evidence.

And the vehicle found hours later? Well, it could have been a pre-arranged diversion. Hire someone you know is willing to do an "ethically questionable" job, to take your wife's vehicle on Thursday and torch it. That person might suspect it is for an insurance scheme, but certainly not to cover up a murder. If the person you hire to do the job is here illegally, or on parole, or even of a certain race or ethnicity, they might be scared to come forward later, for fear of being accused of the murders.

All this over-the-top, Agatha Christie-type speculation and conjecture was, of course, before I learned that everyone was dead before the fire was set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Woodley adjacent to that neighborhood and walk my dog on Woodland. The private security is someone in a black "urban alarm" SUV. I dont know what they do other than drive up and down that street. I also have never seen the SUV go as far up Woodland as the Savopoulos home. I see it on the southern end of Woodland and on McGill Terrace. I assumed it was affiliated with the [b]Argentina ambassador residence since that is the area in which the van consistently is patrolling.

So Argentinian Ambassador lives down the street? Noticeable black SUV patrolling street and neighborhood? With this level of security activity, why on earth would criminals randomly pick Savopoulos home (unless criminals were completely unaware)?

No. Typical DCUM nonsense. The Argentinian Ambassador lives in Spring Valley. She has actually invited neighbors to her house later this month to benefit Mann Elem.

She meant Guatemala. Huge gated compound at woodland and normanstone terrace.

Wow, pretty glitzy for Guatemala!

You've never heard the phrase "livin' like a Latin American dictator"?

[Anonymous]

Ugh. I have to stop obsessing over this crime, but it is so terrible. I keep hoping that the police find the people who did this soon. They are animals and should not be loose on the streets. If they can do all the things they did, they would do anything to anyone.

[Anonymous]

Two years while while commuting home from work, DH calls me and asks if someone had been in our house that day, my heat dropped, and I told him no? Why? DH had been working all day, as well. DH then proceeded to tell me that our bathroom window was wide open, and there were dirty boot prints on the bathroom floor leading to our bedrooms. I told him to exit the house imeediately, who cares what is missing, just get out and call police now! To make matters worse I was about two months pregnant and my heart was beating out of my chest. When I finally arrived home after my hour commute, about 5 police cars were there with 2 detectives. It was terrifying! Turns out they stole quite a bit of my jewelry. I wouldn't go back into the house without an officer searching every closet and every nook and cranny. The idiot was finally caught after pawning my jewelry, and showing his license. We had no personal connection to him, he was just a strung out heroin addict. I have never felt so terrified and violated in my life. We are far from wealthy, and we still live in the same house without a security system because my DH feels that we don't need one.