RTO and No Childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know… many of the people that work in SCIFS get “wellness” hours to go workout every day? The people I know who work in natsec do get a lot of flexibility. Why is this a debate here? No one is working more than 40 hours a week in the office without some perks, including moderate ad hoc telework, wellness hours, flexible start/end times, and credit hours.

If I am coming back in 5 days a week, I’ll be taking full advantage of every one of those things. I’ll also use some of my sick leave to take full days off for doctor’s appointments and minor colds. And I’ll probably use annual leave more regularly to take super long weekends. Coming back in isn’t going to change anything other than the amount of money I spend on gas and food.

Absolutely not true. Yes people work more than 40 hours. Those on contracts cannot but feds and employees of companies can and do and not all work happens in the scif depending on the job. There are no wellness hours or credit hours.

NP here. My sister works in a SCIF and gets to choose her start time, does not regularly work more than 40 hours and if she has to, she gets to either take it as comp time or leave early/come in late the following day, and does indeed get wellness hours.

Yup. People like to play suffering Olympics here to make it seem like there are different classes of feds… but really the biggest division is between bargaining unit employees and non BU employees. And even then, the differences aren’t that stark. ALL GS feds get some flexibility and do not work more than 40 hours without credit hours, comp time, etc.

This is simply not true. Plenty of feds do not get credit hours and work tons of OT.

If they are working unpaid/uncompensated OT it is illegal. People need to stop doing it as they cannot be forced to—if folks are retaliated against for refusing to work uncompensated time, that’s an IG issue. Enough is enough. We can’t keep slashing jobs and pay, and dumping work on management. I worked a lot of nights and weekends this year. That ends now, especially if they make me commute 5 days a week.

I don't think this is true for certain positions. Attorneys work lots of OT for no extra compensation. There are ethical obligations to meet court deadlines.

Pretty much. DOJ was sued about it decades ago, and the agency’s position ever since has been that attorneys can accomplish all their work in 40 hours. Everyone knows that’s not true in practice, so it just means attorneys have to work unpaid OT.

This isn’t accurate. The case was lost because the attorneys had never had overtime requests approved. DOJ policy prohibits approval of overtime for attorneys. The policy does not require attorneys to work more than 40 hours a week. DOJ attorneys working more than 40 without comp time or credit hours are suckers. Stop working for free, let the leadership and Congress see how understaffed/paid you are.

Why can’t they request credit hours? The government does not pay credit hours. Or do you mean they can’t request credit hours after they reached the max 24 hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know… many of the people that work in SCIFS get “wellness” hours to go workout every day? The people I know who work in natsec do get a lot of flexibility. Why is this a debate here? No one is working more than 40 hours a week in the office without some perks, including moderate ad hoc telework, wellness hours, flexible start/end times, and credit hours.

If I am coming back in 5 days a week, I’ll be taking full advantage of every one of those things. I’ll also use some of my sick leave to take full days off for doctor’s appointments and minor colds. And I’ll probably use annual leave more regularly to take super long weekends. Coming back in isn’t going to change anything other than the amount of money I spend on gas and food.

Absolutely not true. Yes people work more than 40 hours. Those on contracts cannot but feds and employees of companies can and do and not all work happens in the scif depending on the job. There are no wellness hours or credit hours.

NP here. My sister works in a SCIF and gets to choose her start time, does not regularly work more than 40 hours and if she has to, she gets to either take it as comp time or leave early/come in late the following day, and does indeed get wellness hours.

Yup. People like to play suffering Olympics here to make it seem like there are different classes of feds… but really the biggest division is between bargaining unit employees and non BU employees. And even then, the differences aren’t that stark. ALL GS feds get some flexibility and do not work more than 40 hours without credit hours, comp time, etc.

This is simply not true. Plenty of feds do not get credit hours and work tons of OT.

If they are working unpaid/uncompensated OT it is illegal. People need to stop doing it as they cannot be forced to—if folks are retaliated against for refusing to work uncompensated time, that’s an IG issue. Enough is enough. We can’t keep slashing jobs and pay, and dumping work on management. I worked a lot of nights and weekends this year. That ends now, especially if they make me commute 5 days a week.

I don't think this is true for certain positions. Attorneys work lots of OT for no extra compensation. There are ethical obligations to meet court deadlines.

Pretty much. DOJ was sued about it decades ago, and the agency’s position ever since has been that attorneys can accomplish all their work in 40 hours. Everyone knows that’s not true in practice, so it just means attorneys have to work unpaid OT.

This isn’t accurate. The case was lost because the attorneys had never had overtime requests approved. DOJ policy prohibits approval of overtime for attorneys. The policy does not require attorneys to work more than 40 hours a week. DOJ attorneys working more than 40 without comp time or credit hours are suckers. Stop working for free, let the leadership and Congress see how understaffed/paid you are.

Why can’t they request credit hours? The government does not pay credit hours. Or do you mean they can’t request credit hours after they reached the max 24 hours?

My USAO operates under the fiction that the job can be done in 40 hours a week. It can’t and everyone I know works closer to 60 hours a week, but the office’s official position is that that’s your failing as an attorney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a lack of childcare that’s the problem; it’s that these women want to have it both ways. They don’t want to pay anyone else to watch their children, they prefer to fleece their employers.

+1

There are plenty of before and after care options. People just don’t want to pay. Though it’s the responsibility of mom and dad, not just mom, in ideal circumstances.

-A single mom breadwinner with sole custody who pays for child care and full time summer camp

Completely depends where you are, all the daycare centers that offer full daycare are at capacity around me. Preschool runs until 3pm at the latest. There is a waitlist for the school offered after care if your kid is school age.

There is a waitlist if you sign up today. If you had signed up years ago when your kid started K, you would be off the waitlist by now.

Look, I totally get that people wanted to save money on childcare and have their kids home with them. But just own it. Own that it was a choice that you intentionally made. It was great while it lasted but now you have to pay the piper and it’s not everybody else’s fault/problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a lack of childcare that’s the problem; it’s that these women want to have it both ways. They don’t want to pay anyone else to watch their children, they prefer to fleece their employers.

+1

There are plenty of before and after care options. People just don’t want to pay. Though it’s the responsibility of mom and dad, not just mom, in ideal circumstances.

-A single mom breadwinner with sole custody who pays for child care and full time summer camp

Completely depends where you are, all the daycare centers that offer full daycare are at capacity around me. Preschool runs until 3pm at the latest. There is a waitlist for the school offered after care if your kid is school age.

There is a waitlist if you sign up today. If you had signed up years ago when your kid started K, you would be off the waitlist by now.

Look, I totally get that people wanted to save money on childcare and have their kids home with them. But just own it. Own that it was a choice that you intentionally made. It was great while it lasted but now you have to pay the piper and it’s not everybody else’s fault/problem.

no one is suggesting this is 'everyone else's fault/problem'? Weird that you think this is about you.

[Anonymous]

this thread seems to be overrun with trolls and/or bots... who says parents want to fleece their employers?

its terrible to be part-way through the school year and have to scramble to find extra care because now one or both working parents needs to work from an office.

i feel for all the working families out there trying to scramble midway through the year to re arrange their schedules and/or find care.

[Anonymous]

And here we go - rocketing back to the times when it was a badge of honor to have an all-hours job where you ignored your children and gave everything to work umpteen hours a day. And for what? The ability to bore your younger colleagues with your war stories until you finally retire and get out of their way? Yay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

For white mothers.
Black mothers didn’t have that privilege

My working class white grandmother had to work too.

Yes, the blatant racism on this board has got to stop. My white immigrant grandmother worked as a maid from age 16-60. My other white grandmother worked as a "lunch lady" at the local public school from 6am until 3pm, when real food was actually cooked there.

The kids just had to grow up faster and learn to take care of themselves.

The point is that the 1950s ideals was exclusively available to white families, even though it was hardly universal among them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you know… many of the people that work in SCIFS get “wellness” hours to go workout every day? The people I know who work in natsec do get a lot of flexibility. Why is this a debate here? No one is working more than 40 hours a week in the office without some perks, including moderate ad hoc telework, wellness hours, flexible start/end times, and credit hours.

If I am coming back in 5 days a week, I’ll be taking full advantage of every one of those things. I’ll also use some of my sick leave to take full days off for doctor’s appointments and minor colds. And I’ll probably use annual leave more regularly to take super long weekends. Coming back in isn’t going to change anything other than the amount of money I spend on gas and food.

Absolutely not true. Yes people work more than 40 hours. Those on contracts cannot but feds and employees of companies can and do and not all work happens in the scif depending on the job. There are no wellness hours or credit hours.

NP here. My sister works in a SCIF and gets to choose her start time, does not regularly work more than 40 hours and if she has to, she gets to either take it as comp time or leave early/come in late the following day, and does indeed get wellness hours.

It sounds like she is a contractor and that’s normal. If you work directly for a company it may or may not be 40 hours.

Fed work like this as well. I hope they keep the wellness hours. Gonna need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a lack of childcare that’s the problem; it’s that these women want to have it both ways. They don’t want to pay anyone else to watch their children, they prefer to fleece their employers.

+1

There are plenty of before and after care options. People just don’t want to pay. Though it’s the responsibility of mom and dad, not just mom, in ideal circumstances.

-A single mom breadwinner with sole custody who pays for child care and full time summer camp

Completely depends where you are, all the daycare centers that offer full daycare are at capacity around me. Preschool runs until 3pm at the latest. There is a waitlist for the school offered after care if your kid is school age.

There is a waitlist if you sign up today. If you had signed up years ago when your kid started K, you would be off the waitlist by now.

Look, I totally get that people wanted to save money on childcare and have their kids home with them. But just own it. Own that it was a choice that you intentionally made. It was great while it lasted but now you have to pay the piper and it’s not everybody else’s fault/problem.

Don’t be such a nitwit. Daycare centers provide care for infants through preschool. That’s where you put your name on a waitlist before you’re even pregnant and by the time your imagined child is 2, you’re usually offered a spot.

For children in kindergarten and up, aftercare is offered by the school and the waitlists don’t carry over year to year. The school offers a limited number of spots in the Fall and if you don’t get a spot, you’re out of luck until the next school year starts, with very little chance of getting a spot off waitlist.

And, as for other childcare options, as we learned during the pandemic, many providers bailed on that industry after finally realizing they could receive better pay and benefits by working in other fields. So, there aren’t a lot of options right now.

I realize you’re likely not interested in the facts, but offering this explanation just in case you, or others, have any interest in understanding the issues at play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a lack of childcare that’s the problem; it’s that these women want to have it both ways. They don’t want to pay anyone else to watch their children, they prefer to fleece their employers.

+1

There are plenty of before and after care options. People just don’t want to pay. Though it’s the responsibility of mom and dad, not just mom, in ideal circumstances.

-A single mom breadwinner with sole custody who pays for child care and full time summer camp

Completely depends where you are, all the daycare centers that offer full daycare are at capacity around me. Preschool runs until 3pm at the latest. There is a waitlist for the school offered after care if your kid is school age.

There is a waitlist if you sign up today. If you had signed up years ago when your kid started K, you would be off the waitlist by now.

Look, I totally get that people wanted to save money on childcare and have their kids home with them. But just own it. Own that it was a choice that you intentionally made. It was great while it lasted but now you have to pay the piper and it’s not everybody else’s fault/problem.

So you think a kid who has a parent at home after school should spend years in aftercare just in case? I doubt a program with a wait-list would let you pay for a spot youre not using. I do not think that is rational.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a lack of childcare that’s the problem; it’s that these women want to have it both ways. They don’t want to pay anyone else to watch their children, they prefer to fleece their employers.

+1

There are plenty of before and after care options. People just don’t want to pay. Though it’s the responsibility of mom and dad, not just mom, in ideal circumstances.

-A single mom breadwinner with sole custody who pays for child care and full time summer camp

Completely depends where you are, all the daycare centers that offer full daycare are at capacity around me. Preschool runs until 3pm at the latest. There is a waitlist for the school offered after care if your kid is school age.

There is a waitlist if you sign up today. If you had signed up years ago when your kid started K, you would be off the waitlist by now.

Look, I totally get that people wanted to save money on childcare and have their kids home with them. But just own it. Own that it was a choice that you intentionally made. It was great while it lasted but now you have to pay the piper and it’s not everybody else’s fault/problem.

Don’t be such a nitwit. Daycare centers provide care for infants through preschool. That’s where you put your name on a waitlist before you’re even pregnant and by the time your imagined child is 2, you’re usually offered a spot.

For children in kindergarten and up, aftercare is offered by the school and the waitlists don’t carry over year to year. The school offers a limited number of spots in the Fall and if you don’t get a spot, you’re out of luck until the next school year starts, with very little chance of getting a spot off waitlist.

And, as for other childcare options, as we learned during the pandemic, many providers bailed on that industry after finally realizing they could receive better pay and benefits by working in other fields. So, there aren’t a lot of options right now.

I realize you’re likely not interested in the facts, but offering this explanation just in case you, or others, have any interest in understanding the issues at play.

Your post gave me a thought. My Kindergarten child has a SACC spot right now. Am I supposed to renew it yearly? I have not done anything as I assumed it carried over indefinitely until I notify them otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a lack of childcare that’s the problem; it’s that these women want to have it both ways. They don’t want to pay anyone else to watch their children, they prefer to fleece their employers.

+1

There are plenty of before and after care options. People just don’t want to pay. Though it’s the responsibility of mom and dad, not just mom, in ideal circumstances.

-A single mom breadwinner with sole custody who pays for child care and full time summer camp

Completely depends where you are, all the daycare centers that offer full daycare are at capacity around me. Preschool runs until 3pm at the latest. There is a waitlist for the school offered after care if your kid is school age.

There is a waitlist if you sign up today. If you had signed up years ago when your kid started K, you would be off the waitlist by now.

Look, I totally get that people wanted to save money on childcare and have their kids home with them. But just own it. Own that it was a choice that you intentionally made. It was great while it lasted but now you have to pay the piper and it’s not everybody else’s fault/problem.

So you think a kid who has a parent at home after school should spend years in aftercare just in case? I doubt a program with a wait-list would let you pay for a spot youre not using. I do not think that is rational.

They could actually use the spot. We have plenty of neighbors who do that. They actually have to do work at home so they can't pop out to the bus stop or get snacks out or host a playdate while "working".

Again, this is on parents who thought they could F around and found out.

I have never, in 15 years of federal service, been required to be in the office for 40 hours/week. I have always had childcare coverage for all hours I am working. Your idea that we should have planned for something that has never been true is irrational. Why don't I also just plan for magic being real at some point? For teleportation? For nuclear war?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

For white mothers.
Black mothers didn’t have that privilege

Exactly. Black parents were forced to depend on family and their neighborhood and church communities.

It was only white feminists who could enjoy their “equality” at the office, while minority women had to do their housekeeping and babysitting.

[Anonymous]

Apparently I was in the minority, but my ES age kid did aftercare even though we had a hybrid schedule / someone is WFH most days. I don’t want my kid around when I am still working!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this thread seems to be overrun with trolls and/or bots... who says parents want to fleece their employers?

its terrible to be part-way through the school year and have to scramble to find extra care because now one or both working parents needs to work from an office.

i feel for all the working families out there trying to scramble midway through the year to re arrange their schedules and/or find care.

Guess what happened during the 2020-2021 school year. Schools randomly closed with little to no notice. They called off hybrid sometimes with a fews hours notice. Guess what parents who work outside the home did. They figured it out. They had backups. They paid for care knowing it was best to have it when it was needed.

Yeah, and there were horrible negative repercussions to kids. Is that what you are supporting?