Big Beautiful Bill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to Senator Wyden, the Senate bill will cut $930 billion from Medicaid. That's more than the House bill.

Red state governors should be furious about this. Like a third of their residents or more are on Medicaid. 40% of the Speaker’s district.

The red state rednecks voted for him and, personally, I don't care if they die from lack of medical care.

When you say the quiet part out loud like that, you're not all that different from Trump and MAGA.

They are getting what they voted for.

No one voted for this. You just sound like a bad pets with your posts.

MAGA absolutely voted for this. It was in the GOP agenda known as Project2025.

Trump promised many times that he would not implement Project 2025. So no, no one voted for this. They voted for the opposite. Don't let your bitterness blind you.

Believing Donald Trump is an extraordinary failure in judgement. They deserve whatever is coming to them and more.

“They” is US!

Most of US here didn’t believe Donald Trump, nor did we vote for him.

+1 the election was clearly stolen. Dems just rolled over because they didn't want to question the election process. But, IMO, they should have.

As opposed to: Democrats know that they would need ironclad proof of any suspicions or accusations— and at that point didn’t have it? What would have been accomplished by questioning the election process without immutable proof, only to have any challenges end up with the current Supreme Court? It’s unlikely, but it would be very powerful if the world’s richest man, at some point, gets impulsive enough to fess up.

DP. I won't say that the election was stolen and votes were changed until I see a whole lot more evidence.

But I know that the Colorado case was BS and that Trump is disqualified under the Fourteenth Amendment for engaging in insurrection, whether charged or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This bill

1. Cuts $930 Billion from Medicaid
2. 16M people will lose health insurance
3. Slashes food assistance for poor families by $186 Billion
4. Lowers incomes for bottom 40% of families
5. Increases deficit by $3.3 Trillion dollars
6. $45 Billion for new immigration jails and another several hundred billion for more ICE forces
7. Billions for defense contractors

The funny thing is the defense contractors are going to lose the NATO market. This will drive cost way up. The only country who will “buy” our weapons will be Israel and they really do not buy the weapons. We give the weapons.

What weapons are you talking about? I completely disagree but I’m more in a niche weapons field.

Pretty much everything we make. From f-35, artillery, air/missile defense, offensive missiles, satellite surveillance, electronic warfare, signal intelligence etc, etc. Europe has come to the conclusion that the US is not a reliable ally. US systems are dependent on the US willingness to supply parts, maintenance and updates. The US weapons are extremely expensive. Plus the back logs are crazy. Look at the US submarines sales to Australia. What is the turn around time 10-15 years? Australia will most likely buy the French submarines. ATACMS Have a what 2-3 year back log?

Europe is building out their defense industry and US weapons are not going to be a part of it. Europe does not need f-35 and other extremely expensive weapon systems to defend Europe. Read up on what is happening in Europe. They are going it alone as quickly as possible.

Also you do not need systems like the f-35 or f-47 to defeat Russia crappy weapons and Israel is planning to attack Turkey. Which side will the US land on if that happens?

PARIS — European nations are in the process of pouring billions of dollars into their defense budgets, individually and collectively, quickly becoming one of the hottest growth markets for defense on the planet. As Anduril executive Greg Kausner put it, the continent is “having a moment right now.”

And at this year’s Paris Air Show, it was evident that the influx of cash has caught the attention of American companies eager to expand their customer base and to do what they can to dive, Scrooge McDuck-style, into that new European pot of money.

But nailing down contracts may not be so easy. Geopolitical tensions between Washington and European capitals have pushed European officials to look more to European solutions, favoring — and in some cases mandating — domestic production of defense articles to reinforce national sovereignty.

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/06/europe-is-pouring-money-into-defense-can-us-firms-reap-the-reward-amid-trans-atlantic-tension/

Increased defense spending could significantly boost Europe’s economic growth and industrial base if outlays are targeted at high-tech, regionally made armaments. A new Kiel Report by the Kiel Institute shows that gross domestic product (GDP) could increase by 0.9 percent to 1.5 percent per year if governments raised annual defense spending from the NATO target of 2 percent to 3.5 percent of GDP and shifted from buying weapons designed and mainly made in the USA to home-grown innovations

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/news/guns-and-growth-the-economic-consequences-of-surging-defense-spending/

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/06/business/europe-military-spending-economic-growth-intl

https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/how-much-will-rising-defense-spending-boost-europes-economy

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/3/21/europe-working-on-plan-to-replace-us-in-nato-in-five-to-10-years-report

The European press is even better with its coverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Statement from North America’s Building Trades Unions on Trump’s “Big Billionaire Bill”:

“If enacted, this stands to be the biggest job-killing bill in the history of this country. Simply put, it is the equivalent of terminating more than 1,000 Keystone XL pipeline projects”

Why? What provisions kill jobs?

There is about 38 billion invested in EVs and EV batteries plants that will be shut down and 200,000 factory jobs. This does not count the construction jobs. These 32 of the 37 manufacturing facilities are in red states. They will be closing or canceling plants in South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama etc.

This bill also goes after and shuts down green energy generation. That is 21% of the US grid and was to grow at 12% over the next decade to 45%. All of that stops. Construction is at a standstill still. Texas solar and wind industry is done. In 2015 Texas generated 12% from wind and solar. Now it generates 34%. This was projected to double by 2035. Some days Texas generates 76% of its electricity from wind and solar.

The difference with renewable and fossil fuels is the cost for renewables are up front. Build a solar or wind farm you have to pay for the plant all at once. Fossil fuel a big chunk of the cost is the cost of the fuel but you pay that as you use it. So it is cheaper in the short term without government subsidies to build fossils fuel plants.

The rest of the world is moving forward with this stuff. China has reduced its demand for oil so much that it is now past peak oil. The demand curve for oil is falling for the next decade in China and it keeps getting revised down wards. This is one of the reason for falling oil prices.

Trump and republicans are living in the 1970’s in terms of energy policy. This is f’ing crazy. This will put the US at a serious competitive disadvantage for the next 20 years.

The renewable energy companies built 49 manufacturing plants last year and 160 more are permitted and have broken ground or are about to. Those plants will close based on the Senate bill.

[Anonymous]

The GOP is winning the ad war on the bill.

It has spent more than twice what the Democrats have.

The ads all tout tax cuts to help working families.

So I don't think Democrats are getting what they want from the public opinion in the short-term. The bill will pass, Fox News will laud it, right-wing voters will for the most part get excited at paying fewer taxes...

... and then next year a few might realize that they're actually paying more total.

Democrats are in disarray right now but they really need a mid-term strategy. They're being handed a gift on a silver platter right on schedule here with the near-certain passing of this bill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The GOP is winning the ad war on the bill.

It has spent more than twice what the Democrats have.

The ads all tout tax cuts to help working families.

So I don't think Democrats are getting what they want from the public opinion in the short-term. The bill will pass, Fox News will laud it, right-wing voters will for the most part get excited at paying fewer taxes...

... and then next year a few might realize that they're actually paying more total.

Democrats are in disarray right now but they really need a mid-term strategy. They're being handed a gift on a silver platter right on schedule here with the near-certain passing of this bill.

The ad war hasn't budged the negative polling for the BBB. Just saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The GOP is winning the ad war on the bill.

It has spent more than twice what the Democrats have.

The ads all tout tax cuts to help working families.

So I don't think Democrats are getting what they want from the public opinion in the short-term. The bill will pass, Fox News will laud it, right-wing voters will for the most part get excited at paying fewer taxes...

... and then next year a few might realize that they're actually paying more total.

Democrats are in disarray right now but they really need a mid-term strategy. They're being handed a gift on a silver platter right on schedule here with the near-certain passing of this bill.

Spending money on ads won't save the GOP. The bill is highly unpopular. Americans aren't stupid. We call all see with our own eyes that is reverse Robin Hood. Newsflash, we sick and tired of billionaires thinking they can rule over us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sort of curious how it will work to "tax solar and wind" such that it becomes non-viable yet we have expanded energy demand, particularly from the "manufacture" of crypto and AI.

Nuclear.

No nuclear is out. They fired most of the government scientists.

GOP/MAGA idiots handing China green energy on a platter. I honestly think this bill will sink us more than the felon ever could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The GOP is winning the ad war on the bill.

It has spent more than twice what the Democrats have.

The ads all tout tax cuts to help working families.

So I don't think Democrats are getting what they want from the public opinion in the short-term. The bill will pass, Fox News will laud it, right-wing voters will for the most part get excited at paying fewer taxes...

... and then next year a few might realize that they're actually paying more total.

Democrats are in disarray right now but they really need a mid-term strategy. They're being handed a gift on a silver platter right on schedule here with the near-certain passing of this bill.

And yet, poll after poll shows how much Americans hate this bill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sort of curious how it will work to "tax solar and wind" such that it becomes non-viable yet we have expanded energy demand, particularly from the "manufacture" of crypto and AI.

Nuclear.

No nuclear is out. They fired most of the government scientists.

GOP/MAGA idiots handing China green energy on a platter. I honestly think this bill will sink us more than the felon ever could.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-s-ceo-says-china-s-ev-progress-is-the-most-humbling-thing-he-s-ever-seen/ar-AA1HFrhS?ocid=finance-verthp-feeds

We are in a global competition with China, and it's not just EVs. And if we lose this, we do not have a future Ford," he added.

We've already lost, thanks to Trump and MAGA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sort of curious how it will work to "tax solar and wind" such that it becomes non-viable yet we have expanded energy demand, particularly from the "manufacture" of crypto and AI.

Nuclear.

No nuclear is out. They fired most of the government scientists.

GOP/MAGA idiots handing China green energy on a platter. I honestly think this bill will sink us more than the felon ever could.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-s-ceo-says-china-s-ev-progress-is-the-most-humbling-thing-he-s-ever-seen/ar-AA1HFrhS?ocid=finance-verthp-feeds

We are in a global competition with China, and it's not just EVs. And if we lose this, we do not have a future Ford," he added.

We've already lost, thanks to Trump and MAGA.

American companies have been innovating and leading in energy efficiency and green energy for decades without support from Congress and they will continue to do so. It is not well publicized but it is happening. And it will continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Statement from North America’s Building Trades Unions on Trump’s “Big Billionaire Bill”:

“If enacted, this stands to be the biggest job-killing bill in the history of this country. Simply put, it is the equivalent of terminating more than 1,000 Keystone XL pipeline projects”

Why? What provisions kill jobs?

There is about 38 billion invested in EVs and EV batteries plants that will be shut down and 200,000 factory jobs. This does not count the construction jobs. These 32 of the 37 manufacturing facilities are in red states. They will be closing or canceling plants in South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama etc.

This bill also goes after and shuts down green energy generation. That is 21% of the US grid and was to grow at 12% over the next decade to 45%. All of that stops. Construction is at a standstill still. Texas solar and wind industry is done. In 2015 Texas generated 12% from wind and solar. Now it generates 34%. This was projected to double by 2035. Some days Texas generates 76% of its electricity from wind and solar.

The difference with renewable and fossil fuels is the cost for renewables are up front. Build a solar or wind farm you have to pay for the plant all at once. Fossil fuel a big chunk of the cost is the cost of the fuel but you pay that as you use it. So it is cheaper in the short term without government subsidies to build fossils fuel plants.

The rest of the world is moving forward with this stuff. China has reduced its demand for oil so much that it is now past peak oil. The demand curve for oil is falling for the next decade in China and it keeps getting revised down wards. This is one of the reason for falling oil prices.

Trump and republicans are living in the 1970’s in terms of energy policy. This is f’ing crazy. This will put the US at a serious competitive disadvantage for the next 20 years.

100 percent this. Republicans are determined to destroy energy in the US. This bill profoundly weakens America and will lead to heaps of job losses - especially in states like Texas. I'm pretty cynical when it comes to American politics, but I did not think even Republicans would do this. House and Senate Republicans are genuinely awful human beings for pursuing this - not to mention the 12 million Americans that are about to lose their health insurance. Plus the additional $3.3 trillion in debt that every taxpayer in America is on the hook for. It's breathtaking how awful Republicans are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The GOP is winning the ad war on the bill.

It has spent more than twice what the Democrats have.

The ads all tout tax cuts to help working families.

So I don't think Democrats are getting what they want from the public opinion in the short-term. The bill will pass, Fox News will laud it, right-wing voters will for the most part get excited at paying fewer taxes...

... and then next year a few might realize that they're actually paying more total.

Democrats are in disarray right now but they really need a mid-term strategy. They're being handed a gift on a silver platter right on schedule here with the near-certain passing of this bill.

And yet, poll after poll shows how much Americans hate this bill.

The poling doesn’t matter, it’s all a giant money grab on the way out the door.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This bill

1. Cuts $930 Billion from Medicaid
2. 16M people will lose health insurance
3. Slashes food assistance for poor families by $186 Billion
4. Lowers incomes for bottom 40% of families
5. Increases deficit by $3.3 Trillion dollars
6. $45 Billion for new immigration jails and another several hundred billion for more ICE forces
7. Billions for defense contractors

The funny thing is the defense contractors are going to lose the NATO market. This will drive cost way up. The only country who will “buy” our weapons will be Israel and they really do not buy the weapons. We give the weapons.

It was little noticed in the US at the time, but the US and Elon Musk's Starlink turned off all support for US weapons systems in Ukraine during Russia's offensive to retake Kursk. The entire world took notice however. A weapons system - whether HIMARs or F-35s - comes with a forty year tail of support, from software updates to ammo. And the entire planet took note of how capricious Republicans are. Obviously, no nation can be put in a position where they rely on American weapons systems when one of the major parties in the US is so willing to turn off support and let soldiers die when defending their country. Europe, Canada, and Asia are all pivoting to domestic systems now. The European arms industry in particular is absolutely booming right now. I'm sure Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, BAE, General Dynamics and so on are absolutely pissed. That is trillions in lost revenue for them.


What weapons are you talking about? I completely disagree but I’m more in a niche weapons field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It was little noticed in the US at the time, but the US and Elon Musk's Starlink turned off all support for US weapons systems in Ukraine during Russia's offensive to retake Kursk. The entire world took notice however. A weapons system - whether HIMARs or F-35s - comes with a forty year tail of support, from software updates to ammo. And the entire planet took note of how capricious Republicans are. Obviously, no nation can be put in a position where they rely on American weapons systems when one of the major parties in the US is so willing to turn off support and let soldiers die when defending their country. Europe, Canada, and Asia are all pivoting to domestic systems now. The European arms industry in particular is absolutely booming right now. I'm sure Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, BAE, General Dynamics and so on are absolutely pissed. That is trillions in lost revenue for them.

It was noticed here at the time and it will destroy Starlink. Boeing, Lockheed etc rushed to assure everyone that there is no kill switch in their planes or weapons.

The world wants to decouple from American defense weapons (and tech) but realistically it won't happen. However, Starlink is cooked. And Musk's shenanigans with MITRE and CVE will chop up the current organized system of computer hardware and software to multiple quasi-interoperable systems. Too bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The GOP is winning the ad war on the bill.

It has spent more than twice what the Democrats have.

The ads all tout tax cuts to help working families.

So I don't think Democrats are getting what they want from the public opinion in the short-term. The bill will pass, Fox News will laud it, right-wing voters will for the most part get excited at paying fewer taxes...

... and then next year a few might realize that they're actually paying more total.

Democrats are in disarray right now but they really need a mid-term strategy. They're being handed a gift on a silver platter right on schedule here with the near-certain passing of this bill.

And yet, poll after poll shows how much Americans hate this bill.

The poling doesn’t matter, it’s all a giant money grab on the way out the door.

Well, if the economy tanks because people don’t have healthcare and jobs and kids don’t have afterschool programs, and green technology and cancer research is farmed out to Europe and Asia, the economy will be in tatters. So what good is a tax cut?