NYT and WaPo report Biden is close to stepping down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Primary voters do not nominate party candidates, delegates do. This is a DNC issue not a legal one.

Something like 99% of the delegates are bound by DNC rules to vote for Joe Biden in first round of voting at the Convention. So it’s already Joe Biden’s nomination. The delegates are not free to vote their own choice.

This is why they are trying to publicly pressure him to step down.

Democrats need to get off social media. This is completely an astroturfed pressure campaign. Lots of phony enthusiasm for “replace Joe” by bot accounts.

He already said delegates can vote their conscience and if he does step down he’ll release them, still not a legal issue.

We’ve already seen in this thread that it’s a legal issue in Nevada to get on the ballot in November. Candidate must be replaced by 4th Friday in July. So even if Biden left the race and a new nominee is selected in August, it’s already too late. Will need Nevada Supreme Court to make a decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obama was startled by how 'disoriented' Biden appeared during a June fundraising event, NYT reports

During a campaign fundraising event in June, President Joe Biden's disoriented state while onstage left former President Barack Obama "startled," The New York Times reported.

The event in question — a Los Angeles fundraiser hosted by Jimmy Kimmel — included a viral moment where it appeared Obama led a frozen Biden offstage. At the time, the White House dismissed the notion, saying Biden paused for applause.

According to an anonymous former Obama aide who spoke to the Times, the former president was surprised by how Biden had "aged and seemed disoriented."

https://www.businessinsider.com/disoriented-biden-startled-obama-campaign-event-2024-7?amp

Personally I’m tired of hearing about the likes of Jimmy Kimmel and George Clooney having any say, beyond their single vote in the ballot box, about choosing our leadership. That goes too for all the Hollywood and Wall Street donors who think they own us.

The post you are quoting is about Obama. Are you tired of hearing from the likes of him? (I thought the posts upthread criticizing Obama for being a narcissist were pretty funny. Of course he thinks highly of himself. He both ran for, and was, president. You have to be pretty crazy to do either of those things.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Obama was startled by how 'disoriented' Biden appeared during a June fundraising event, NYT reports

During a campaign fundraising event in June, President Joe Biden's disoriented state while onstage left former President Barack Obama "startled," The New York Times reported.

The event in question — a Los Angeles fundraiser hosted by Jimmy Kimmel — included a viral moment where it appeared Obama led a frozen Biden offstage. At the time, the White House dismissed the notion, saying Biden paused for applause.

According to an anonymous former Obama aide who spoke to the Times, the former president was surprised by how Biden had "aged and seemed disoriented."

https://www.businessinsider.com/disoriented-biden-startled-obama-campaign-event-2024-7?amp

Personally I’m tired of hearing about the likes of Jimmy Kimmel and George Clooney having any say, beyond their single vote in the ballot box, about choosing our leadership. That goes too for all the Hollywood and Wall Street donors who think they own us.

You sound like somebody who might vote for the Orange Man. Are you finally starting to have some semblance of an understanding why that phenomenon is happening?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Selecting a nominee is party business governed by party rules. That’s the only right answer.

That's fine, but then they can't reasonably expect ma and pa yokel in a swing county to vote for their candidate.

[Anonymous]

I thought the names on the ballot were placeholders for the electoral people we were actually electing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AOC says that the political class (pundits, donors) turned on Biden because of the debate and if they had concerns about age, they should've stated it last year instead of supporting him
She's concerned about legal challenges if Biden is swapped out
states Democrats should not leak their displeasure to journalists, they should "say it with their chest" and go public if they have an opinion
The donors and elites that want Biden to step down, don't want Kamala either. They want a new ticket. Kamala supporters should not get their hopes up!
They have no plan on how to replace Biden and can't answer her questions
Biden does well with old people and unions, and thrives with crowds, struggled due to no audience in the debate
states she's poll skeptic, she has outperformed the polls before, her own private polling had her double digits down from what the result ended up being in the primary this year
says that the Dem members of Congress who want Biden to drop out only voice concern about their donors, not their voters


[youtube] https://youtu.be/mlzNvNFqtBE[/youtube]

The part about the legal challenges is especially worrisome.

And the DNC lawyers had no answers for her as to the legal risk! Insane to even publicly discuss replacing the candidate before identifying the risks and benefits of such a strategy.

They know the answers. They just don't want to share how it will be done.

Lawyer here. No, they don't know the answers. This is uncharted territory.

Rules can be changed and they have a sense as to what those options are.

The only sense I get is that it’s all rigged for Trump. I mean how else can a convicted criminal be on the ballot?

With an open primary utilizing the democratic process. Trump won the republican ticket, that is how.

I understand because your being a democrat this is foreign to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AOC says that the political class (pundits, donors) turned on Biden because of the debate and if they had concerns about age, they should've stated it last year instead of supporting him
She's concerned about legal challenges if Biden is swapped out
states Democrats should not leak their displeasure to journalists, they should "say it with their chest" and go public if they have an opinion
The donors and elites that want Biden to step down, don't want Kamala either. They want a new ticket. Kamala supporters should not get their hopes up!
They have no plan on how to replace Biden and can't answer her questions
Biden does well with old people and unions, and thrives with crowds, struggled due to no audience in the debate
states she's poll skeptic, she has outperformed the polls before, her own private polling had her double digits down from what the result ended up being in the primary this year
says that the Dem members of Congress who want Biden to drop out only voice concern about their donors, not their voters


[youtube] https://youtu.be/mlzNvNFqtBE[/youtube]

The part about the legal challenges is especially worrisome.

And the DNC lawyers had no answers for her as to the legal risk! Insane to even publicly discuss replacing the candidate before identifying the risks and benefits of such a strategy.

They know the answers. They just don't want to share how it will be done.

Lawyer here. No, they don't know the answers. This is uncharted territory.

Rules can be changed and they have a sense as to what those options are.

The only sense I get is that it’s all rigged for Trump. I mean how else can a convicted criminal be on the ballot?

Because everyone who watches right wing media understands that his conviction was a scam.

I added a few words to make it more accurate. And that wasn’t even his worst crime, just the one that managed to make it to trial already.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Selecting a nominee is party business governed by party rules. That’s the only right answer.

That's fine, but then they can't reasonably expect ma and pa yokel in a swing county to vote for their candidate.

Nobody expects anything. Your civic duty is to vote for whoever is on the ballot, or write in a name, or leave it blank. Ideally with some thought put into it. That's all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it ironic that Biden’s own party is trying to cancel him?

Yes. This is what is so flabbergasting to so many rank & file Dems who are not part of the DC-LA-NYC bubble. Don’t tell swing state voters you’re “saving democracy” and then try to force out the sitting President despite him having the primary votes and delegates. It’s offensive that the DC-LA-NYC Bubble Dems believe voters are so stupid to accept this.

This is such a dumb argument. His primary was uncontested because no mainstream Dem who really wants the job would ever run against him. They would get no finding or support from the DNC and would kill any future choices, so it’s really a non-choice when an egomaniac decides he will not pass the baton. This hadn’t ever before means that democracy is working. I mean how many states didn’t have any other candidate on the Dem ballot in 2020 because we have an UNDEMOCRATIC primary system. I wanted to vote for Elizabeth Warren, but she wasn’t on my DC ballot.

Presidents have been selected at the convention before. Let the GOP challenge it, it’s legal.

It’s a fool’s errand to ignore the legal issues which are a function of the various state election laws.

What legal issues? The ones Heritage Foundation is trying to push? They are purposely trying to confuse you because they know Trump can beat Biden. It's pure disinformation.

But seriously, list the legal issues. So we can talk specifics.

My take is there's been no DNC Convention, no official candidate, and no ballot in any of the 50 states. Easy and perfectly legal to nominate someone other than Biden.

Nevada:

3.  If a vacancy occurs in a major political party nomination for a partisan office after the primary election and before 5 p.m. on the fourth Friday in July of the year in which the general election is held and:
(a) The vacancy occurs because the nominee dies or is adjudicated insane or mentally incompetent, the vacancy may be filled by a candidate designated by the party central committee of the county or State, as the case may be, of the major political party.
(b) The vacancy occurs for a reason other than the reasons described in paragraph (a), the nominee’s name must remain on the ballot for the general election and, if elected, a vacancy exists.
4.  No change may be made on the ballot for the general election after 5 p.m. on the fourth Friday in July of the year in which the general election is held. If, after that time and date:
(a) A nominee dies or is adjudicated insane or mentally incompetent; or
(b) A vacancy in the nomination is otherwise created, the nominee’s name must remain on the ballot for the general election and, if elected, a vacancy exists.

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-293.html#NRS293Sec165

Now, I don’t know how this provision of Nevada law can be legal in the face of the fact that Presidential nominating conventions last until August. But this would clearly be something that gets mired in prolonged litigation, both at the state and eventually federal level.

The date of the convention has far less legal standing than a ballot date set by state law.

PP here: agreed.

Didn't the Supreme Court already say that a state cannot keep a name off of a ballot?

No. They said only Congress has the power to enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, not the states.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf

Does not apply to Ohio keeping Biden off the ballot.

Correct. Though I understand Ohio Republicans changed its law in order to prevent the Democrats from having to do a virtual roll call to solidify a Biden candidacy.

So after threatening to not change the law, Republicans suddenly reversed course and extended the deadline once it became clear Democrats were moving forward with the virtual roll call. My take? It seems that Republicans really don’t want Joe Biden on the ballot in November.

Republican did what Democrats asked and changed the law to benefit Biden. And republicans are the bad guys in your scenario?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it ironic that Biden’s own party is trying to cancel him?

Yes. This is what is so flabbergasting to so many rank & file Dems who are not part of the DC-LA-NYC bubble. Don’t tell swing state voters you’re “saving democracy” and then try to force out the sitting President despite him having the primary votes and delegates. It’s offensive that the DC-LA-NYC Bubble Dems believe voters are so stupid to accept this.

This is such a dumb argument. His primary was uncontested because no mainstream Dem who really wants the job would ever run against him. They would get no finding or support from the DNC and would kill any future choices, so it’s really a non-choice when an egomaniac decides he will not pass the baton. This hadn’t ever before means that democracy is working. I mean how many states didn’t have any other candidate on the Dem ballot in 2020 because we have an UNDEMOCRATIC primary system. I wanted to vote for Elizabeth Warren, but she wasn’t on my DC ballot.

Presidents have been selected at the convention before. Let the GOP challenge it, it’s legal.

It’s a fool’s errand to ignore the legal issues which are a function of the various state election laws.

What legal issues? The ones Heritage Foundation is trying to push? They are purposely trying to confuse you because they know Trump can beat Biden. It's pure disinformation.

But seriously, list the legal issues. So we can talk specifics.

My take is there's been no DNC Convention, no official candidate, and no ballot in any of the 50 states. Easy and perfectly legal to nominate someone other than Biden.

Nevada:

3.  If a vacancy occurs in a major political party nomination for a partisan office after the primary election and before 5 p.m. on the fourth Friday in July of the year in which the general election is held and:
(a) The vacancy occurs because the nominee dies or is adjudicated insane or mentally incompetent, the vacancy may be filled by a candidate designated by the party central committee of the county or State, as the case may be, of the major political party.
(b) The vacancy occurs for a reason other than the reasons described in paragraph (a), the nominee’s name must remain on the ballot for the general election and, if elected, a vacancy exists.
4.  No change may be made on the ballot for the general election after 5 p.m. on the fourth Friday in July of the year in which the general election is held. If, after that time and date:
(a) A nominee dies or is adjudicated insane or mentally incompetent; or
(b) A vacancy in the nomination is otherwise created, the nominee’s name must remain on the ballot for the general election and, if elected, a vacancy exists.

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-293.html#NRS293Sec165

Now, I don’t know how this provision of Nevada law can be legal in the face of the fact that Presidential nominating conventions last until August. But this would clearly be something that gets mired in prolonged litigation, both at the state and eventually federal level.

The date of the convention has far less legal standing than a ballot date set by state law.

PP here: agreed.

Didn't the Supreme Court already say that a state cannot keep a name off of a ballot?

No. They said only Congress has the power to enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, not the states.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf

Does not apply to Ohio keeping Biden off the ballot.

Correct. Though I understand Ohio Republicans changed its law in order to prevent the Democrats from having to do a virtual roll call to solidify a Biden candidacy.

So after threatening to not change the law, Republicans suddenly reversed course and extended the deadline once it became clear Democrats were moving forward with the virtual roll call. My take? It seems that Republicans really don’t want Joe Biden on the ballot in November.

Republican did what Democrats asked and changed the law to benefit Biden. And republicans are the bad guys in your scenario?

4d chess!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound like somebody who might vote for the Orange Man.

No, I’m not voting for Biden.

In all seriousness, though, are you nine years old? I just don’t understand grown-a$$ adults who keep up with this name-calling. That also goes for the ones who say “Bidumb.” Grow up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Primary voters do not nominate party candidates, delegates do. This is a DNC issue not a legal one.

Something like 99% of the delegates are bound by DNC rules to vote for Joe Biden in first round of voting at the Convention. So it’s already Joe Biden’s nomination. The delegates are not free to vote their own choice.

This is why they are trying to publicly pressure him to step down.

Democrats need to get off social media. This is completely an astroturfed pressure campaign. Lots of phony enthusiasm for “replace Joe” by bot accounts.

So what is the end game for Biden staying in? He *hopefully* wins because people so dislike Trump, then if he has to step down after the election, Harris becomes President? It’s clear that he won’t be healthy enough for the next 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AOC says that the political class (pundits, donors) turned on Biden because of the debate and if they had concerns about age, they should've stated it last year instead of supporting him
She's concerned about legal challenges if Biden is swapped out
states Democrats should not leak their displeasure to journalists, they should "say it with their chest" and go public if they have an opinion
The donors and elites that want Biden to step down, don't want Kamala either. They want a new ticket. Kamala supporters should not get their hopes up!
They have no plan on how to replace Biden and can't answer her questions
Biden does well with old people and unions, and thrives with crowds, struggled due to no audience in the debate
states she's poll skeptic, she has outperformed the polls before, her own private polling had her double digits down from what the result ended up being in the primary this year
says that the Dem members of Congress who want Biden to drop out only voice concern about their donors, not their voters


[youtube] https://youtu.be/mlzNvNFqtBE[/youtube]

The part about the legal challenges is especially worrisome.

And the DNC lawyers had no answers for her as to the legal risk! Insane to even publicly discuss replacing the candidate before identifying the risks and benefits of such a strategy.

They know the answers. They just don't want to share how it will be done.

Lawyer here. No, they don't know the answers. This is uncharted territory.

Rules can be changed and they have a sense as to what those options are.

The only sense I get is that it’s all rigged for Trump. I mean how else can a convicted criminal be on the ballot?

Because everyone who watches right wing media understands that his conviction was a scam.

I added a few words to make it more accurate. And that wasn’t even his worst crime, just the one that managed to make it to trial already.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

You denigrate “right wing media” but weren’t they the only ones talking about Biden’s obvious mental decline? Which has led us to where we are today in this particular thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AOC says that the political class (pundits, donors) turned on Biden because of the debate and if they had concerns about age, they should've stated it last year instead of supporting him
She's concerned about legal challenges if Biden is swapped out
states Democrats should not leak their displeasure to journalists, they should "say it with their chest" and go public if they have an opinion
The donors and elites that want Biden to step down, don't want Kamala either. They want a new ticket. Kamala supporters should not get their hopes up!
They have no plan on how to replace Biden and can't answer her questions
Biden does well with old people and unions, and thrives with crowds, struggled due to no audience in the debate
states she's poll skeptic, she has outperformed the polls before, her own private polling had her double digits down from what the result ended up being in the primary this year
says that the Dem members of Congress who want Biden to drop out only voice concern about their donors, not their voters


[youtube] https://youtu.be/mlzNvNFqtBE[/youtube]

The part about the legal challenges is especially worrisome.

And the DNC lawyers had no answers for her as to the legal risk! Insane to even publicly discuss replacing the candidate before identifying the risks and benefits of such a strategy.

They know the answers. They just don't want to share how it will be done.

Lawyer here. No, they don't know the answers. This is uncharted territory.

Rules can be changed and they have a sense as to what those options are.

The only sense I get is that it’s all rigged for Trump. I mean how else can a convicted criminal be on the ballot?

Because everyone who watches right wing media understands that his conviction was a scam.

I added a few words to make it more accurate. And that wasn’t even his worst crime, just the one that managed to make it to trial already.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire.

You denigrate “right wing media” but weren’t they the only ones talking about Biden’s obvious mental decline? Which has led us to where we are today in this particular thread.

Are they equally honest about Trump? Yes or no?

Maybe we don't need left wing and right wing media? Maybe we need journalism and reporters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Primary voters do not nominate party candidates, delegates do. This is a DNC issue not a legal one.

Something like 99% of the delegates are bound by DNC rules to vote for Joe Biden in first round of voting at the Convention. So it’s already Joe Biden’s nomination. The delegates are not free to vote their own choice.

This is why they are trying to publicly pressure him to step down.

Democrats need to get off social media. This is completely an astroturfed pressure campaign. Lots of phony enthusiasm for “replace Joe” by bot accounts.

So what is the end game for Biden staying in? He *hopefully* wins because people so dislike Trump, then if he has to step down after the election, Harris becomes President? It’s clear that he won’t be healthy enough for the next 4 years.

It might be that Biden is in fact the best candidate the Democrats have right now. Do what worked in 2020…limit his public appearances, put surrogates out to say what a great guy he is, try to make the campaign about Trump. And for god’s sake no more debates.