Cops in TX tackle & block desperate parents, while they let shooter rampage thru the school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school security officer was not on campus. That’s a bigger deal than the door.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/28/uvalde-classroom-police-911-failure/

On Friday, McCraw added that the school police officer was not on campus but rushed there after the 911 call about a man with a gun at the crash.

“He drove right by the suspect,” who was crouched behind a vehicle in the parking lot, and mistook a teacher for an intruder, McCraw said.

He was there within a minute of the truck crash/shooting. And he was in the parking lot at the same time as the killer.

More deflection.

And yet the killer got in the school.

Yes, the entire police response was botched.

We can’t rely on bumbling bumpkins to protect our kids from weapons of mass killings.

[Anonymous]

Ugh... and if the "criminals" and the "mental health" problems weren't enough, there's the "propped-open doors"!

But remember: Assault weapons available for purchase at gun stores far and wide is NOT the problem!

#RepublicansUnitedForMoreMassShootings. Join us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You see, it was the school’s fault! If pinky they’d kept their doors shut, they wouldn’t have been asking for it.

My god. The depravity if you guns nuts knows no limits.

Who said they were asking for it? Do you leave your home doors propped open all night?

DP. I lock my doors at night, but it would only take a few seconds for someone with a gun to shoot through our sliding glass doors on the back.

The victim blaming here is disgusting. Most schools take precautions to prevent unwanted visitors but they aren’t impenetrable fortresses because, well, they are schools.

The issue isn’t the schools. The issue is the easy access to weapons of mass killings.

This. They still have playgrounds, glass windows and doors. A person with a semi automatic weapon will get in. Period.

[Anonymous]

There’s the ‘door propped’ peddler and the ‘mom blame’ peddler.

Both grasping for ways to distract focus from the real problems here.

1) Access to guns.
2) Cowards that carry guns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone else afraid for Biden and his trip to Texas. Every elected republican official in the state has gone right up to the line in threatening Biden and out and out said he is not the legitimate president. Biden stole the election. The police force who will be providing the perimeter security is incompetent and openly hostile to Biden. It is very worrying.

Presumably he knows what security he can and can't trust. Mike pence knew not to get in that car on Jan 6th.

Of the rhetoric pushed out by Fox News and the elected republicans is very scary. This is the type of environment where you do not know what will happen.

A coup from the secrets service? The suspects that would attempt such a thing would be known. Pence knew so why wouldn't others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is all confirmation that most of the security measures are theater, and that the police are scared of crazy AR-15 shooters as well.

Time to re- ban assault weapons. The experiment has failed.

THIS.

Good guys with guns are as good as thoughts and prayers. Enough!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school security officer was not on campus. That’s a bigger deal than the door.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/28/uvalde-classroom-police-911-failure/

On Friday, McCraw added that the school police officer was not on campus but rushed there after the 911 call about a man with a gun at the crash.

“He drove right by the suspect,” who was crouched behind a vehicle in the parking lot, and mistook a teacher for an intruder, McCraw said.

He was there within a minute of the truck crash/shooting. And he was in the parking lot at the same time as the killer.

More deflection.

And then the killer got in through an open door. Safety protocols were not followed. Killer knew to go there it seems. Chances are, he had cased the place and knew habits.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/27/us/uvalde-shooting-police-response-timeline/index.html


According to the timeline, the cops didn’t stand around while the shooter was “killing babies”. The high likelihood is he did all his murders in the first 15 minutes of entry.

They were at the door within minutes. Imagine the possibility that some of those children bled out while they waited, and possibly could have been saved had they breached the door earlier.
No, they didn't pull the trigger, and the shooter is ultimately responsible. But what they did was indefensible.
Do you have kids? Can you imagine the abject terror of the children locked in that room with a gunman for over an hour, begging for help from police? It sickens me to look at my Teo young children and imagine them going through that...or anyone else's kids.

That is an absolutely lie. There are 9/11 calls within the timeline of the cops standing outside the door from kids inside the classroom pleading for 'police' only to be dead once they breeched it 90 minutes in.

He entered classrooms 111/112 at 11:33AM. A female student IN THOSE CLASSROOMS called police at 12:03PM and again at 12:13PM. And a third time at 12:16PM. She reported that at least 9 of her classmates were still alive.

A child was on the phone from 12:36PM - 12:47PM. The mass shooter died at 12:58PM.

https://apnews.com/article/texas-school-shooting-timeline-6069b0cf01e5f732ef55f9fd0b7109d7

Yeah, that's what I said. I'm the PP you quoted. Exactly where did I lie? The officers standing outside the door likely could have saved some of those poor kids.

I'm talking to the OP who posted before you - The high likelihood is he did all his murders in the first 15 minutes of entry.

But they didn’t all die in the first 15 minutes. Some could have been saved. Some were still alive an hour later and died at the hospital.

The training for the cops is 1. Stop the killing by taking out the shooter and then 2. Stop the dying by getting immediate help for the injured who are still alive. There is no training to wait an hour.

It’s possible, but unlikely that any children shot with an AR15 would survive. I mean, we can hope, and we certainly want to respond quickly in case anyone is alive and try to save them. But realistically, that’s just not how those guns work, not the physics or biology of the situation. Some of these kids had to be identified from DNA. When an adult is shot, doctors have described the organ damage as being like when a melon is smashed with a sledgehammer. So basically unless they were just grazed, hits are going to be lethal. That’s why people want these guns banned. It’s hard to survive.

It’s true that they didn’t all die before the cops got there though. The cops told the kids to call out if they needed help, and when a girl called out for help, the gunman found her and shot her. https://www.kens5.com/amp/article/news/special-reports/uvalde-school-shooting/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-fourth-grader-student-account-elementary/273-51cc4e26-7a0a-49c0-ba7a-48cdd47fa235

Seventeen people were injured at the school, but survived. I don’t think they’ve publicly identified these 17 people or told us what their injuries were. Were they minor injuries, like abrasions from broken glass or a sprained ankle while fleeing? Were these 17 mostly law enforcement? Are they including parents who were injured by officers trying to hold them at bay? I don’t think we know for sure yet if there are any children who survived being shot, but we do know that the best chance the victims had for survival was to receive medical care ASAP.

I’m not arguing that first aid isn’t critical. I’m arguing these guns are more dangerous than handguns or guns used for hunting. I’m arguing that these guns should be illegal because it’s almost impossible to survive a shot from them, except being grazed like the cops were initially. This article is a surgeon’s experience with different types of gunshot wounds. It’s sad and graphic but helps with understanding the difference. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

NP but I think it’s unfair to say you would have taken other kids out as well. I would like to think I would have but who knows what was going on in that room to make her not do that. None of us can understand the stress, fear and pure adrenaline running through this mother’s mind and body.

The teacher may have been following protocol and would not let the other kids leave and kept them safe in the room. I don't think any parent was under any obligation to take out any other children than their own. I would like to think I would try but I honestly don't know what them done. One pumping knowing the cops weren't doing anything. I don't know how I would have reacted.
I consistently don't understand like more people don't go out windows of first story rooms.

Those inside did not know where the gunman was. Since the woman made it safely to the classroom, it's reasonable to assume at that point he was not there. He also knew if he moved around the school, he would have gotten shot at. He wasn't taking that risk. We know this because he hasn't moved positions in quite a while.

Protocol no longer matters. Sorry teacher. The police were outside. The gunman was inside. Did the parent get her kids out through an outside door to the classroom? If so, it was much safer to get the kids out of the classroom where the police can provide cover. She clearly felt safe enough to get her own kids out. She took that risk. I'm not saying she was wrong or right, but leaving 20+ kids behind while you take your own ... I personally can't imagine it.

I don’t understand why law enforcement didn’t seem to know where the shooter was. Can’t they communicate with each other? Children repeatedly gave their location as classroom numbers 111 and 112 to 911 dispatchers. Dispatch didn’t communicate that to people on the scene? There’s no point person for communications?

They knew where he was. Sadly, it was best to keep him there, given he already got into the school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is all confirmation that most of the security measures are theater, and that the police are scared of crazy AR-15 shooters as well.

Time to re- ban assault weapons. The experiment has failed.

THIS.

Good guys with guns are as good as thoughts and prayers. Enough!

Heroic story after story proves you wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s the ‘door propped’ peddler and the ‘mom blame’ peddler.

Both grasping for ways to distract focus from the real problems here.

1) Access to guns.
2) Cowards that carry guns.

The coward with the gun was reported to the social media company he posted on over and over and over again. What was done? Nothing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

NP but I think it’s unfair to say you would have taken other kids out as well. I would like to think I would have but who knows what was going on in that room to make her not do that. None of us can understand the stress, fear and pure adrenaline running through this mother’s mind and body.

The teacher may have been following protocol and would not let the other kids leave and kept them safe in the room. I don't think any parent was under any obligation to take out any other children than their own. I would like to think I would try but I honestly don't know what them done. One pumping knowing the cops weren't doing anything. I don't know how I would have reacted.
I consistently don't understand like more people don't go out windows of first story rooms.

Those inside did not know where the gunman was. Since the woman made it safely to the classroom, it's reasonable to assume at that point he was not there. He also knew if he moved around the school, he would have gotten shot at. He wasn't taking that risk. We know this because he hasn't moved positions in quite a while.

Protocol no longer matters. Sorry teacher. The police were outside. The gunman was inside. Did the parent get her kids out through an outside door to the classroom? If so, it was much safer to get the kids out of the classroom where the police can provide cover. She clearly felt safe enough to get her own kids out. She took that risk. I'm not saying she was wrong or right, but leaving 20+ kids behind while you take your own ... I personally can't imagine it.

I don’t understand why law enforcement didn’t seem to know where the shooter was. Can’t they communicate with each other? Children repeatedly gave their location as classroom numbers 111 and 112 to 911 dispatchers. Dispatch didn’t communicate that to people on the scene? There’s no point person for communications?

They knew where he was. Sadly, it was best to keep him there, given he already got into the school

It’s only best to keep him there if removing him isn’t an option. I mean I guess if you consider the police were doing the opposite of what they were trained to do, it’s best, but best would be functional police who do their job well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

NP but I think it’s unfair to say you would have taken other kids out as well. I would like to think I would have but who knows what was going on in that room to make her not do that. None of us can understand the stress, fear and pure adrenaline running through this mother’s mind and body.

The teacher may have been following protocol and would not let the other kids leave and kept them safe in the room. I don't think any parent was under any obligation to take out any other children than their own. I would like to think I would try but I honestly don't know what them done. One pumping knowing the cops weren't doing anything. I don't know how I would have reacted.
I consistently don't understand like more people don't go out windows of first story rooms.

Those inside did not know where the gunman was. Since the woman made it safely to the classroom, it's reasonable to assume at that point he was not there. He also knew if he moved around the school, he would have gotten shot at. He wasn't taking that risk. We know this because he hasn't moved positions in quite a while.

Protocol no longer matters. Sorry teacher. The police were outside. The gunman was inside. Did the parent get her kids out through an outside door to the classroom? If so, it was much safer to get the kids out of the classroom where the police can provide cover. She clearly felt safe enough to get her own kids out. She took that risk. I'm not saying she was wrong or right, but leaving 20+ kids behind while you take your own ... I personally can't imagine it.

I don’t understand why law enforcement didn’t seem to know where the shooter was. Can’t they communicate with each other? Children repeatedly gave their location as classroom numbers 111 and 112 to 911 dispatchers. Dispatch didn’t communicate that to people on the scene? There’s no point person for communications?

They knew where he was. Sadly, it was best to keep him there, given he already got into the school

It’s only best to keep him there if removing him isn’t an option. I mean I guess if you consider the police were doing the opposite of what they were trained to do, it’s best, but best would be functional police who do their job well.

Oh, they should have gone in. There are photos of him IN the school. Breaking the door down would have resulted in a barrage if fire from him aimed at the door. Again, he never should have gotten into the school

For those that state he could have broken a window, sure. Now imagine if there were gun safes in the school at strategic locations and/or specially trained teachers were able to keep a gun safe in their room. Breaking a window makes noise, then he would have to gain access after doing so. Someone(s) armed inside the school would have taken him out. In fact, that there was a gunman outside on the street after an auto accident shooting at civilians would have resulted in these specially trained school resource officers (civilians included) to arm themselves and get to their stations.

Again, a woman with a pistol shot and killed a man who returned to a party with an AR-15 just this past weekend. She was armed. If she wasn’t, that would have been another mass shooting. I get that you want ARs banned. If this woman had been disarmed and this man had an illegal pistol, rifle or shotgun, there would probably be a shooting - just one no one would have been able to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

NP but I think it’s unfair to say you would have taken other kids out as well. I would like to think I would have but who knows what was going on in that room to make her not do that. None of us can understand the stress, fear and pure adrenaline running through this mother’s mind and body.

The teacher may have been following protocol and would not let the other kids leave and kept them safe in the room. I don't think any parent was under any obligation to take out any other children than their own. I would like to think I would try but I honestly don't know what them done. One pumping knowing the cops weren't doing anything. I don't know how I would have reacted.
I consistently don't understand like more people don't go out windows of first story rooms.

Those inside did not know where the gunman was. Since the woman made it safely to the classroom, it's reasonable to assume at that point he was not there. He also knew if he moved around the school, he would have gotten shot at. He wasn't taking that risk. We know this because he hasn't moved positions in quite a while.

Protocol no longer matters. Sorry teacher. The police were outside. The gunman was inside. Did the parent get her kids out through an outside door to the classroom? If so, it was much safer to get the kids out of the classroom where the police can provide cover. She clearly felt safe enough to get her own kids out. She took that risk. I'm not saying she was wrong or right, but leaving 20+ kids behind while you take your own ... I personally can't imagine it.

I don’t understand why law enforcement didn’t seem to know where the shooter was. Can’t they communicate with each other? Children repeatedly gave their location as classroom numbers 111 and 112 to 911 dispatchers. Dispatch didn’t communicate that to people on the scene? There’s no point person for communications?

They knew where he was. Sadly, it was best to keep him there, given he already got into the school

It’s only best to keep him there if removing him isn’t an option. I mean I guess if you consider the police were doing the opposite of what they were trained to do, it’s best, but best would be functional police who do their job well.

Oh, they should have gone in. There are photos of him IN the school. Breaking the door down would have resulted in a barrage if fire from him aimed at the door. Again, he never should have gotten into the school

For those that state he could have broken a window, sure. Now imagine if there were gun safes in the school at strategic locations and/or specially trained teachers were able to keep a gun safe in their room. Breaking a window makes noise, then he would have to gain access after doing so. Someone(s) armed inside the school would have taken him out. In fact, that there was a gunman outside on the street after an auto accident shooting at civilians would have resulted in these specially trained school resource officers (civilians included) to arm themselves and get to their stations.

Again, a woman with a pistol shot and killed a man who returned to a party with an AR-15 just this past weekend. She was armed. If she wasn’t, that would have been another mass shooting. I get that you want ARs banned. If this woman had been disarmed and this man had an illegal pistol, rifle or shotgun, there would probably be a shooting - just one no one would have been able to stop.

I mean there were photos of the officers in the school itself. That should have been them, not him.

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Anonymous wrote:I would have had some create a distraction so others could get past and get in there.

uh-huh

NP, I know there is often grandstanding on this board and it’s hard to say with certainty what someone would do when faced with mortal danger but I do think a large percentage of parents would do anything they could to save their child in this situation. In fact most parents would die without hesitation to save their child.

+1
It’s possible the police would have had to shoot me in the back to stop me from running in there. I can’t imagine the helpless horror those poor kids and parents felt. Extra cruel.

The cops did not stop the BP officer who showed just kind of feed the narrative that the cops were scared.

Some of the cops stepped forward and provided him cover while he rescued kids.

1 or 2 did after 19 waited around for 40 minutes because they were scared.

More than two. Let’s at least give them their due, given they were being told to stand down by their chief.

Is there new info or more details? Last I heard it was a group of 3-4 that went in with 1-2 being sheriff's deputies. I'll praise whomever deserves praise.

So they helped a buddy get his kids but handcuffed others?

Im sure orhers did but in this case we're talking about the assault team led by the off-duty CBP guy. At least one sheriff's deputy and one other CBP joined. I'm not sure how big a group it was but it was small. What's worse is the CBP borrowed the ballistic shield from the Uvalde guys who were too scared.

The article I read said it was him, 2 officers providing cover, and 2 more helping escort children to safety. He evacuated the wing his child was in, but it doesn't sound like he started with his child's class (whether that's intentional I couldn't say). I remember a line that was something like when he found his child, he gave them a hug and sent them out with the other officers and continued evacuating the other children in that wing.


I've heard the stories about some cops going in and getting their children out, but the DPS director said that wasn't true, and I haven't found any articles backing it up. This is the closest I can find to that rumor. Cops going in and getting out individual kids is inexcusable, but what this CBP agent did, leading a team and evacuating a whole wing (even if he picked that wing because his child was there), especially if they'd been told to stand down, I can at least understand it and support it to an extent. Their training was to take out the shooter first, but as much of a clusterf*** as this has been, at least he did something valuable.

One parent did go in and come out only with her own kids. Could she have taken others? I mean, since we are critiquing, right?

You mean the unarmed, no tactical gear having mom that was handcuffed by the police? The one that as soon as the handcuffs were removed, ran as fast as she could AWAY from the police to the school, jumped the fence, ran into the school with an active shooter, found her kids and ran out?

That mom?

You think that’s the same as police officers, trained and armed police officers, that were not just shouted at and handcuffed by police officers?

I didn’t say it was the same? I know for a fact, though, I would have brought other kids. You are morally bound to do so. Police were wrong but once she knew she could get her own kids out, you take others. YMMV

NP but I think it’s unfair to say you would have taken other kids out as well. I would like to think I would have but who knows what was going on in that room to make her not do that. None of us can understand the stress, fear and pure adrenaline running through this mother’s mind and body.

The teacher may have been following protocol and would not let the other kids leave and kept them safe in the room. I don't think any parent was under any obligation to take out any other children than their own. I would like to think I would try but I honestly don't know what them done. One pumping knowing the cops weren't doing anything. I don't know how I would have reacted.
I consistently don't understand like more people don't go out windows of first story rooms.

Those inside did not know where the gunman was. Since the woman made it safely to the classroom, it's reasonable to assume at that point he was not there. He also knew if he moved around the school, he would have gotten shot at. He wasn't taking that risk. We know this because he hasn't moved positions in quite a while.

Protocol no longer matters. Sorry teacher. The police were outside. The gunman was inside. Did the parent get her kids out through an outside door to the classroom? If so, it was much safer to get the kids out of the classroom where the police can provide cover. She clearly felt safe enough to get her own kids out. She took that risk. I'm not saying she was wrong or right, but leaving 20+ kids behind while you take your own ... I personally can't imagine it.

I don’t understand why law enforcement didn’t seem to know where the shooter was. Can’t they communicate with each other? Children repeatedly gave their location as classroom numbers 111 and 112 to 911 dispatchers. Dispatch didn’t communicate that to people on the scene? There’s no point person for communications?

They knew where he was. Sadly, it was best to keep him there, given he already got into the school

It’s only best to keep him there if removing him isn’t an option. I mean I guess if you consider the police were doing the opposite of what they were trained to do, it’s best, but best would be functional police who do their job well.

Oh, they should have gone in. There are photos of him IN the school. Breaking the door down would have resulted in a barrage if fire from him aimed at the door. Again, he never should have gotten into the school

For those that state he could have broken a window, sure. Now imagine if there were gun safes in the school at strategic locations and/or specially trained teachers were able to keep a gun safe in their room. Breaking a window makes noise, then he would have to gain access after doing so. Someone(s) armed inside the school would have taken him out. In fact, that there was a gunman outside on the street after an auto accident shooting at civilians would have resulted in these specially trained school resource officers (civilians included) to arm themselves and get to their stations.

Again, a woman with a pistol shot and killed a man who returned to a party with an AR-15 just this past weekend. She was armed. If she wasn’t, that would have been another mass shooting. I get that you want ARs banned. If this woman had been disarmed and this man had an illegal pistol, rifle or shotgun, there would probably be a shooting - just one no one would have been able to stop.

And in California, last week -- side note, the frequency this is occurring is insane -- an unarmed middle aged doctor stopped a mass shooting on his own. People being selfless and choosing to act are what stops these events. It isn't guns. Guns don't save people, people do. That has never been more clear than now after Uvalde.