Biles out

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The problem is she took a spot that someone else could have filled and reached their Olympic dream.

+1

Whose spot? Do you happen to know who would have gone if Biles hadn't?

It's just a hunch but I'm pretty sure it would have made no sense to send that person instead, but I could be wrong.

Probably Jade Carey. She's taking the spot Biles gave up in the AA competition, which she qualified for but was the third ranked American and they only permit two per country. She's a vault and floor specialist. Having her in the team final may very well may have gotten the US team the gold, as those were two weaker events for the US without Biles.

She did not take Jades team spot. Jade earned a spot as an individual competitor, and elected to use that spot instead of being considered for a team spot. Performance suggest Le that jade would have been stronger on the team than Grace McCallum, arguably better than Jordan chiles overall, but she opted out of team consideration. This was made clear at the trials.

This isn't what I said. I wasn't talking about whether Jade should have been on the team originally or what happened at trials. I'm saying that if Biles had bowed out prior to the team competition, who would US gymnastics subbed in her place at the last minute? I don't know the specific rules, but if she was eligible, I'm pretty confident that Jade Carey would have been the one selected. She did very very well in the qualifying round and would have been an strong asset to the US team.

They couldn’t sub in Jade at the last minute- would have had to have been 24hrs in advance if the competition. I can’t remember where but had read that Simone had looked ok in an earlier training that day.

In any event, no matter what Biles had done- stuck it out or pulled out earlier, the US girls still likely would not have won gold. The math was in favor of the Russians whether Biles had continued to compete or Jade had been used in a couple events. And although I was pulling for the US team I couldn’t help but be happy for the Russian team- nice gymnastics and you could tell how much it meant to them.

I don’t think that’s right, Biles vault hurt them, and they are very deep at vault. With a good vault score and enough notice to pick the best girls for the other events, gold was still within reach. Carey had an individual spot that could not be transferred to another girl and was heavily discouraged from seeking a team slot for that reason.

Not questioning whether she should have withdrawn, just wish she had decided sooner, she has been struggling since the trials.

Yeah but a struggling Biles still finished 1st in qualifications over pretty solid Suni and Jade. 3.5 points is a LOT to make up. And everyone would have just found some thing else to criticize/complain about anyway.

In qualifiers, Carey scored 15.166 in the vault, 14.133 in the uneven bars, 12.866 in the balance beam and 14.100 on the floor.

Simone got a 13.766 on vault in the team competition. Hypothetically, Jade's vault score from qualifiers would have made up 1.4 points. On uneven bars, McCallum got a 13.700, so Carey's score from qualifiers would haveade up another 0.4 points. On floor, Chile's got an 11.7, so if you substitute Carey's qualifiers score you make up another 2.4 points. That's 4.3 points total. Even with some margin, having Carey replace Simone could have gotten the US team the gold. It definitely wasn't mathematically impossible.

Sorry, that's 4.2 points. Typing on my phone.

If Simone would have withdrawn earlier, the replacement would have come from the replacement athletes (Kayla DiCello or Emma M as Kara tested positive for Covid and Leanne had to quarantine). Jade was not in that pool since her position was not on the “team roster”.

Pretty sure McKayla Skinner was also available as an alternate, and vault is her strongest apparatus.

Same story, she was in an individual spot, which I don’t believe could be used to fill an open team spot.

Yeah I think this is what is confusing to people- not sure Skinner and Carey were eligible and and as PP mentioned, the top two team alternates were in covid quarantine. this year was tricky with the combo of team and individual athletes. we could analyze this all day with hypotheticals but whats the point- the Russian team had better performances that day team USA won a silver medal and that's that.

suni just won the AA- congrats to her and the other medalists! sounds like it was a good competition, will watch later.

This insistence that there is no way that the US could have been better situated is so fan girlish and tiresome. Simone has not been her normal self in competition for weeks. I have no issue with her withdrawing but it certainly could have be done in a manner that left her teammates with better odds in the team competition. To not admit that’s even a possibility is just bizarre.

Well if she was sooooo off her game for weeks then the coaches bare some responsibility as well and should have put someone else in earlier. The team construction had some weaknesses and depended too much on Biles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the USA "needed" the greatest of all timeeeeeeee diva to win anything? lol

Exit stage left. Biles is the most over-hyped and overrated Olympian ever.

love this!

[Anonymous]

The thing people forget it that the way you make an elite athlete is the same way you break a person. You push and push beyond what is normal and healthy. If you choose not to push there is always someone else who will push beyond. The rewards are signifiant but the price paid is also high.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The problem is she took a spot that someone else could have filled and reached their Olympic dream.

+1

Whose spot? Do you happen to know who would have gone if Biles hadn't?

It's just a hunch but I'm pretty sure it would have made no sense to send that person instead, but I could be wrong.

Probably Jade Carey. She's taking the spot Biles gave up in the AA competition, which she qualified for but was the third ranked American and they only permit two per country. She's a vault and floor specialist. Having her in the team final may very well may have gotten the US team the gold, as those were two weaker events for the US without Biles.

She did not take Jades team spot. Jade earned a spot as an individual competitor, and elected to use that spot instead of being considered for a team spot. Performance suggest Le that jade would have been stronger on the team than Grace McCallum, arguably better than Jordan chiles overall, but she opted out of team consideration. This was made clear at the trials.

This isn't what I said. I wasn't talking about whether Jade should have been on the team originally or what happened at trials. I'm saying that if Biles had bowed out prior to the team competition, who would US gymnastics subbed in her place at the last minute? I don't know the specific rules, but if she was eligible, I'm pretty confident that Jade Carey would have been the one selected. She did very very well in the qualifying round and would have been an strong asset to the US team.

They couldn’t sub in Jade at the last minute- would have had to have been 24hrs in advance if the competition. I can’t remember where but had read that Simone had looked ok in an earlier training that day.

In any event, no matter what Biles had done- stuck it out or pulled out earlier, the US girls still likely would not have won gold. The math was in favor of the Russians whether Biles had continued to compete or Jade had been used in a couple events. And although I was pulling for the US team I couldn’t help but be happy for the Russian team- nice gymnastics and you could tell how much it meant to them.

I don’t think that’s right, Biles vault hurt them, and they are very deep at vault. With a good vault score and enough notice to pick the best girls for the other events, gold was still within reach. Carey had an individual spot that could not be transferred to another girl and was heavily discouraged from seeking a team slot for that reason.

Not questioning whether she should have withdrawn, just wish she had decided sooner, she has been struggling since the trials.

Yeah but a struggling Biles still finished 1st in qualifications over pretty solid Suni and Jade. 3.5 points is a LOT to make up. And everyone would have just found some thing else to criticize/complain about anyway.

In qualifiers, Carey scored 15.166 in the vault, 14.133 in the uneven bars, 12.866 in the balance beam and 14.100 on the floor.

Simone got a 13.766 on vault in the team competition. Hypothetically, Jade's vault score from qualifiers would have made up 1.4 points. On uneven bars, McCallum got a 13.700, so Carey's score from qualifiers would haveade up another 0.4 points. On floor, Chile's got an 11.7, so if you substitute Carey's qualifiers score you make up another 2.4 points. That's 4.3 points total. Even with some margin, having Carey replace Simone could have gotten the US team the gold. It definitely wasn't mathematically impossible.

Sorry, that's 4.2 points. Typing on my phone.

If Simone would have withdrawn earlier, the replacement would have come from the replacement athletes (Kayla DiCello or Emma M as Kara tested positive for Covid and Leanne had to quarantine). Jade was not in that pool since her position was not on the “team roster”.

Pretty sure McKayla Skinner was also available as an alternate, and vault is her strongest apparatus.

Same story, she was in an individual spot, which I don’t believe could be used to fill an open team spot.

Yeah I think this is what is confusing to people- not sure Skinner and Carey were eligible and and as PP mentioned, the top two team alternates were in covid quarantine. this year was tricky with the combo of team and individual athletes. we could analyze this all day with hypotheticals but whats the point- the Russian team had better performances that day team USA won a silver medal and that's that.

suni just won the AA- congrats to her and the other medalists! sounds like it was a good competition, will watch later.

This insistence that there is no way that the US could have been better situated is so fan girlish and tiresome. Simone has not been her normal self in competition for weeks. I have no issue with her withdrawing but it certainly could have be done in a manner that left her teammates with better odds in the team competition. To not admit that’s even a possibility is just bizarre.

Maybe you should take a page out of the gymnasts book and get some perspective already:
"In our minds, we didn't just get silver, we WON silver."
-Suni Lee

Before she went out and won the all around too.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Relevant post

Yeah, it's not a coincidence that every gymnast has come out 100% supportive of Simone Biles. They know that with the slightest slipup if your head is not in the game, you can end up in a wheelchair for life or worse.

I don't think a single person thinks she should have competed if she felt unsafe about it. What people don't agree with was her behavior (GOAT) and the timing of it all. She should have stayed home.

I agree that the hype (and pressure!) was over the top, and it appears that Biles herself bought into it, which likely contributed to her problems at the Olympics.

But to assume that Biles knew she would feel unsafe leading up to the Olympics is unfair. I think part of the issue is that Biles has been so good for so long and so far ahead of everyone else that there was almost too margin for error. Most other gymnasts with subpar performances at trials or in Olympics would have been left off the team, not made any finals, or not used as much in team finals. But she still made all the finals, and she had higher scoring potential than any of the alternatives in team finals. So everyone (maybe even Biles her self) brushed off the cracks, until she broke completely.

Yeah something was definitely not right with her during day 2 of trials (where suni beat her in point total). But her difficulty was so high that she still had the second highest total that day.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Relevant post

Yeah, it's not a coincidence that every gymnast has come out 100% supportive of Simone Biles. They know that with the slightest slipup if your head is not in the game, you can end up in a wheelchair for life or worse.

I don't think a single person thinks she should have competed if she felt unsafe about it. What people don't agree with was her behavior (GOAT) and the timing of it all. She should have stayed home.

Obviously you don’t compete. You don’t get to have a crystal ball, able to predict when you are going to have an issue. It doesn’t work like that.

+1. None of us have any way of knowing at what point she realized she couldn’t do it. Heck maybe even with the missed warmup vault maybe she still thought she could make the vault when it counted.

Some of you seem really bitter than the team didn’t bring home gold for you and I suggest you sit down and think about why that is.

Yup. Biles won 4 gold medals and 18 world championships. And people are calling her all sorts of names like she did this on purpose. She's been training 10 hours a day for years. No one walks away from the Olympics lightly. If people could "predict" when they were going to have a mental health issue, the emergency rooms wouldn't be full of sick people.

She is past her prime and was not well prepared (was making mistakes all week). Her ego could not handle a poor showing at the Olympics. I don’t think her poor sportsmanship or lack of humility should be celebrated.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Relevant post

Yeah, it's not a coincidence that every gymnast has come out 100% supportive of Simone Biles. They know that with the slightest slipup if your head is not in the game, you can end up in a wheelchair for life or worse.

I don't think a single person thinks she should have competed if she felt unsafe about it. What people don't agree with was her behavior (GOAT) and the timing of it all. She should have stayed home.

Obviously you don’t compete. You don’t get to have a crystal ball, able to predict when you are going to have an issue. It doesn’t work like that.

+1. None of us have any way of knowing at what point she realized she couldn’t do it. Heck maybe even with the missed warmup vault maybe she still thought she could make the vault when it counted.

Some of you seem really bitter than the team didn’t bring home gold for you and I suggest you sit down and think about why that is.

Yup. Biles won 4 gold medals and 18 world championships. And people are calling her all sorts of names like she did this on purpose. She's been training 10 hours a day for years. No one walks away from the Olympics lightly. If people could "predict" when they were going to have a mental health issue, the emergency rooms wouldn't be full of sick people.

She is past her prime and was not well prepared (was making mistakes all week). Her ego could not handle a poor showing at the Olympics. I don’t think her poor sportsmanship or lack of humility should be celebrated.

Many of us don't share your perspective and opinions.
C'est la vie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Relevant post

Yeah, it's not a coincidence that every gymnast has come out 100% supportive of Simone Biles. They know that with the slightest slipup if your head is not in the game, you can end up in a wheelchair for life or worse.

I don't think a single person thinks she should have competed if she felt unsafe about it. What people don't agree with was her behavior (GOAT) and the timing of it all. She should have stayed home.

Obviously you don’t compete. You don’t get to have a crystal ball, able to predict when you are going to have an issue. It doesn’t work like that.

+1. None of us have any way of knowing at what point she realized she couldn’t do it. Heck maybe even with the missed warmup vault maybe she still thought she could make the vault when it counted.

Some of you seem really bitter than the team didn’t bring home gold for you and I suggest you sit down and think about why that is.

Yup. Biles won 4 gold medals and 18 world championships. And people are calling her all sorts of names like she did this on purpose. She's been training 10 hours a day for years. No one walks away from the Olympics lightly. If people could "predict" when they were going to have a mental health issue, the emergency rooms wouldn't be full of sick people.

She is past her prime and was not well prepared (was making mistakes all week). Her ego could not handle a poor showing at the Olympics. I don’t think her poor sportsmanship or lack of humility should be celebrated.

+1. She might have realized she’d be lauded as a hero for bailing due to mental health reasons but wouldn’t be quite as celebrated for losing to her teammate and gymnasts from other countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read this whole thread so I think this is a somewhat different take - but I have ZERO problem with what Simone Biles did. I DO have a problem with the way it’s being covered, however. Pulling out of a dangerous competition at the last minute, potentially leaving teammates who are counting on you in the lurch is surely a very difficult, but very rational and understandable decision. It is certainly not villainous or selfish; neither is it brave or courageous. It is just an unfortunate and crappy situation that all the gymnasts handled to the best of their ability.

WHY do we have to resort to this childish, binary, black-or-white, good-or-bad, cowardly-or-brave narrative for EVERYTHING these days? It’s ridiculous.

She’s not selfish, she’s not bad, but she’s also no hero.

Of course it's a brave and courageous thing to do because: 1) mental health issues aren't accepted as medical issues in much of America and 2) people are mean and criticize anyone who shows a bit of weakness. The fact that people like you are complaining she "left her teammates in the lurch" is ridiculous--she didn't compete because she didn't feel healthy to do so.

Okay - I guess we just fundamentally disagree. I am old school and still believe that words have meaning. You are apparently from a younger generation for whom any decision anyone ever makes about anything ever is “brave” or “courageous” because they’re taking care of themselves or living their truth or some other such nonsense.

You also can’t seem to read, like most younger folks in America. At no point did I criticize Simone Biles for leaving her teammates in the lurch, but objectively that is exactly what she did. The fact that she had perfectly good and valid reasons for doing so doesn’t change that fact. They came through admirably and should be commended, and she made the best choice she had available to her at the time (withdrawing) which is certainly commendable in itself but NOT courageous. FFS, people.

[Anonymous]

We'll never know. It's possible that she got the twisties. It's possible that she just didn't do her best vault and wanted to bail. It's possible that she had an acute mental health crisis. It's possible that this is all just PR. Personally, I enjoyed the AA not knowing from the outset who would win. And I wish Biles the best. I'll be relieved when this is old news.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven’t read this whole thread so I think this is a somewhat different take - but I have ZERO problem with what Simone Biles did. I DO have a problem with the way it’s being covered, however. Pulling out of a dangerous competition at the last minute, potentially leaving teammates who are counting on you in the lurch is surely a very difficult, but very rational and understandable decision. It is certainly not villainous or selfish; neither is it brave or courageous. It is just an unfortunate and crappy situation that all the gymnasts handled to the best of their ability.

WHY do we have to resort to this childish, binary, black-or-white, good-or-bad, cowardly-or-brave narrative for EVERYTHING these days? It’s ridiculous.

She’s not selfish, she’s not bad, but she’s also no hero.

Of course it's a brave and courageous thing to do because: 1) mental health issues aren't accepted as medical issues in much of America and 2) people are mean and criticize anyone who shows a bit of weakness. The fact that people like you are complaining she "left her teammates in the lurch" is ridiculous--she didn't compete because she didn't feel healthy to do so.

Okay - I guess we just fundamentally disagree. I am old school and still believe that words have meaning. You are apparently from a younger generation for whom any decision anyone ever makes about anything ever is “brave” or “courageous” because they’re taking care of themselves or living their truth or some other such nonsense.

You also can’t seem to read, like most younger folks in America. At no point did I criticize Simone Biles for leaving her teammates in the lurch, but objectively that is exactly what she did. The fact that she had perfectly good and valid reasons for doing so doesn’t change that fact. They came through admirably and should be commended, and she made the best choice she had available to her at the time (withdrawing) which is certainly commendable in itself but NOT courageous. FFS, people.

Not the PP you're referring to, and I am old, and I read. Perhaps you could read this Sally Jenkins column about Biles, and then we can revisit her "bravery."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2021/07/29/simone-biles-larry-nassar-fbi/

[Anonymous]

It’s good sportsmanship to put on her track suit and support her team, which is what she did.
She could have bailed entirely and hid in the locker, or gone back to the hotel.
She did the right thing.

[Anonymous]

Why is she still there? Athletes have to leave Japan 48 hours after their events finish. Or does this not apply to her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is she still there? Athletes have to leave Japan 48 hours after their events finish. Or does this not apply to her?

She has not decided whether she will compete in the event finals. She earned a spot in the finals of all four events, which no one has done in a long while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s good sportsmanship to put on her track suit and support her team, which is what she did.
She could have bailed entirely and hid in the locker, or gone back to the hotel.
She did the right thing.

According to the rules, she shouldn't even be in the country.