Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For better or for worse, the new VYS staff is basing pretty much everything off tryouts that are 90% scrimmages, at least for rising U9s.

Personally, I think that may help you find the dominant players (and the weakest) but doesn't help you evaluate the rest. You have to know something about a kid's attitude and coachability.

I've seen a lot of travel players who make it because they had the athleticism to look good in scrimmage-based tryouts, and then two years later, the staff wonders why they haven't developed.

I hear (second-hand) that PAC does it differently. They have tons of open dates and only require attendance at two (three is encouraged), so they don't have huge crowds at a couple of required events. Then they actually coach players in the tryout. Even if you don't make a team or decide to go elsewhere, you get a free lesson. (Well, almost free -- they ask you to bring a plain white shirt, and they scrawl a number on it. So you're out the cost of a plain white shirt.)

I'm confused about these complaints about using all scrimmaging at tryouts to select players .... what else would you propose that would be better at identifying the better kids? In the scrimmaging the coaches can see a players athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, creativity, footskills, field vision, etc. What else would you have them do at tryouts?

VYS apparently wants to see the quickness, perception, and decision-making kids display under pressure and when there is no space. They're far from alone in that. To change things up a little, maybe VYS should see what kids do when there is space. Sometimes that's more telling. Again, the tryouts have been like that for a while (where they scrimmage and head home).

[Anonymous]

Does the entire board of VYS post here? Way too many people getting defensive/protective over the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For better or for worse, the new VYS staff is basing pretty much everything off tryouts that are 90% scrimmages, at least for rising U9s.

Personally, I think that may help you find the dominant players (and the weakest) but doesn't help you evaluate the rest. You have to know something about a kid's attitude and coachability.

I've seen a lot of travel players who make it because they had the athleticism to look good in scrimmage-based tryouts, and then two years later, the staff wonders why they haven't developed.

I hear (second-hand) that PAC does it differently. They have tons of open dates and only require attendance at two (three is encouraged), so they don't have huge crowds at a couple of required events. Then they actually coach players in the tryout. Even if you don't make a team or decide to go elsewhere, you get a free lesson. (Well, almost free -- they ask you to bring a plain white shirt, and they scrawl a number on it. So you're out the cost of a plain white shirt.)

I'm confused about these complaints about using all scrimmaging at tryouts to select players .... what else would you propose that would be better at identifying the better kids? In the scrimmaging the coaches can see a players athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, creativity, footskills, field vision, etc. What else would you have them do at tryouts?

We're talking rising U9 here. Some kids are 8 years/9 months old. Some are 7 years/9 months old. That's an eternity when you're talking about "athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, etc."

You shouldn't be looking at these kids as if they're anywhere close to a finished product. It's not about how good they are now. It's about how good they CAN be.

So get to know the kids. Run them through some drills. See if they're coachable. See their upside.

OK, thanks for explaining. I've coached travel from U9 through U12 and I think you are just expecting too much from U9 tryouts. Ask any travel club technical director or any qualified travel coach and she/he will say they can get a sense of the soccer "upside" of a player from watching the player scrimmage. Scrimmaging is a much better use of the limited observation time than doing any kind of "drills" for 8 year olds. And unfortunately it is just not realistic for a coach to "get to know" EACH of the dozens of kids that show up at a U9 tryout.

Of course as you note, kids change quite a bit over time, both physically and mentally, so there is no science that can tell you how good an 8 year old might be someday as a soccer player based on one or two 90 minute tryouts. Some kids fall in love with soccer at a later age, while other talented soccer players at the younger ages drop the sport altogether within a couple years. But the good news is that U9 is just the very beginning of the road. Travel team rosters change dramatically at most clubs during U10-U12 as teams get bigger and kids see the time and commiment it takes to play at the higher levels in this area. So if your child does not make the "A" team at U9 she can practice hard and play well on the "B" team or "C" team and try to move up again at tryouts for U10 (and U11 and U12 etc). Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For better or for worse, the new VYS staff is basing pretty much everything off tryouts that are 90% scrimmages, at least for rising U9s.

Personally, I think that may help you find the dominant players (and the weakest) but doesn't help you evaluate the rest. You have to know something about a kid's attitude and coachability.

I've seen a lot of travel players who make it because they had the athleticism to look good in scrimmage-based tryouts, and then two years later, the staff wonders why they haven't developed.

I hear (second-hand) that PAC does it differently. They have tons of open dates and only require attendance at two (three is encouraged), so they don't have huge crowds at a couple of required events. Then they actually coach players in the tryout. Even if you don't make a team or decide to go elsewhere, you get a free lesson. (Well, almost free -- they ask you to bring a plain white shirt, and they scrawl a number on it. So you're out the cost of a plain white shirt.)

I'm confused about these complaints about using all scrimmaging at tryouts to select players .... what else would you propose that would be better at identifying the better kids? In the scrimmaging the coaches can see a players athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, creativity, footskills, field vision, etc. What else would you have them do at tryouts?

We're talking rising U9 here. Some kids are 8 years/9 months old. Some are 7 years/9 months old. That's an eternity when you're talking about "athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, etc."

You shouldn't be looking at these kids as if they're anywhere close to a finished product. It's not about how good they are now. It's about how good they CAN be.

So get to know the kids. Run them through some drills. See if they're coachable. See their upside.

OK, thanks for explaining. I've coached travel from U9 through U12 and I think you are just expecting too much from U9 tryouts. Ask any travel club technical director or any qualified travel coach and she/he will say they can get a sense of the soccer "upside" of a player from watching the player scrimmage. Scrimmaging is a much better use of the limited observation time than doing any kind of "drills" for 8 year olds. And unfortunately it is just not realistic for a coach to "get to know" EACH of the dozens of kids that show up at a U9 tryout.

Of course as you note, kids change quite a bit over time, both physically and mentally, so there is no science that can tell you how good an 8 year old might be someday as a soccer player based on one or two 90 minute tryouts. Some kids fall in love with soccer at a later age, while other talented soccer players at the younger ages drop the sport altogether within a couple years. But the good news is that U9 is just the very beginning of the road. Travel team rosters change dramatically at most clubs during U10-U12 as teams get bigger and kids see the time and commiment it takes to play at the higher levels in this area. So if your child does not make the "A" team at U9 she can practice hard and play well on the "B" team or "C" team and try to move up again at tryouts for U10 (and U11 and U12 etc). Good luck!

Frankly, it's all the more reason we shouldn't be doing tryouts at this age. U.S. Youth Soccer says U10 players shouldn't be exposed to tryouts and shouldn't be labeled "recreational" or "competitive." There are plenty of alternatives -- have advanced programs for House players, pick players from that pool for occasional "travel" games and tournaments, etc. Then by the time your players are U11s, you have a pretty good idea of what to expect.

That's not going to happen in our lifetime, of course, so we have to make do with what we have. And what we have at the moment are a bunch of tryouts taking place in 90-degree, 90 percent humidity weather. You'll learn a lot about a player's heat tolerance but not much else.

So I'm really curious about the PAC approach. Does anyone else do that? Does it only work at smaller clubs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For better or for worse, the new VYS staff is basing pretty much everything off tryouts that are 90% scrimmages, at least for rising U9s.

Personally, I think that may help you find the dominant players (and the weakest) but doesn't help you evaluate the rest. You have to know something about a kid's attitude and coachability.

I've seen a lot of travel players who make it because they had the athleticism to look good in scrimmage-based tryouts, and then two years later, the staff wonders why they haven't developed.

I hear (second-hand) that PAC does it differently. They have tons of open dates and only require attendance at two (three is encouraged), so they don't have huge crowds at a couple of required events. Then they actually coach players in the tryout. Even if you don't make a team or decide to go elsewhere, you get a free lesson. (Well, almost free -- they ask you to bring a plain white shirt, and they scrawl a number on it. So you're out the cost of a plain white shirt.)

I'm confused about these complaints about using all scrimmaging at tryouts to select players .... what else would you propose that would be better at identifying the better kids? In the scrimmaging the coaches can see a players athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, creativity, footskills, field vision, etc. What else would you have them do at tryouts?

We're talking rising U9 here. Some kids are 8 years/9 months old. Some are 7 years/9 months old. That's an eternity when you're talking about "athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, etc."

You shouldn't be looking at these kids as if they're anywhere close to a finished product. It's not about how good they are now. It's about how good they CAN be.

So get to know the kids. Run them through some drills. See if they're coachable. See their upside.

OK, thanks for explaining. I've coached travel from U9 through U12 and I think you are just expecting too much from U9 tryouts. Ask any travel club technical director or any qualified travel coach and she/he will say they can get a sense of the soccer "upside" of a player from watching the player scrimmage. Scrimmaging is a much better use of the limited observation time than doing any kind of "drills" for 8 year olds. And unfortunately it is just not realistic for a coach to "get to know" EACH of the dozens of kids that show up at a U9 tryout.

Of course as you note, kids change quite a bit over time, both physically and mentally, so there is no science that can tell you how good an 8 year old might be someday as a soccer player based on one or two 90 minute tryouts. Some kids fall in love with soccer at a later age, while other talented soccer players at the younger ages drop the sport altogether within a couple years. But the good news is that U9 is just the very beginning of the road. Travel team rosters change dramatically at most clubs during U10-U12 as teams get bigger and kids see the time and commiment it takes to play at the higher levels in this area. So if your child does not make the "A" team at U9 she can practice hard and play well on the "B" team or "C" team and try to move up again at tryouts for U10 (and U11 and U12 etc). Good luck!

Also, I do need to point out most people aren't worried about "A" vs. "B." They're worried about making it all. They're worried about whether their soccer-loving kids will start to hate it if a bunch of their friends make travel and they don't.

And we can say House league players can end up working their way to travel, and it sometimes happens. But we often don't have programs in place that give them the opportunity to develop and to play with other players who want to improve.

[Anonymous]

So VYS has a series of scrimmages at tryouts (why not), and PAC gives coaches and players more of a chance to interact (also good). I think FPYC tries to have kids who want to join come and practice with an existing team. Would anyone mind sharing what other organizations, like PWSI and ASA, do at travel tryouts? Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So VYS has a series of scrimmages at tryouts (why not), and PAC gives coaches and players more of a chance to interact (also good). I think FPYC tries to have kids who want to join come and practice with an existing team.

For existing teams, yes. Not sure FPYC does to form its U9 teams in the first place. A lot of teams from U11-U12 on up tend to invite people to come in and practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does the entire board of VYS post here? Way too many people getting defensive/protective over the program.

I don't know -- this seems like a discussion with diverse views on the tryouts, none particularly defensive.

I have no idea why VYS so dominates this discussion. No DCUM users in McLean? Loudoun? Arlington? Prince William?

All clubs have issues -- I'm hearing a big, big rumbling out of McLean. Not sure if the foot dropped yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the entire board of VYS post here? Way too many people getting defensive/protective over the program.

I don't know -- this seems like a discussion with diverse views on the tryouts, none particularly defensive.

I have no idea why VYS so dominates this discussion. No DCUM users in McLean? Loudoun? Arlington? Prince William?

All clubs have issues -- I'm hearing a big, big rumbling out of McLean. Not sure if the foot dropped yet.

What is going on at McLean? My son was going to try out there. Haven't heard anything amiss.

[Anonymous]

This thread or board or whatever it is started with a VYS parent complaining about some parent-volunteer travel coaches. 51.999 pages later, the art of the VYS gripe remains completely integral to the DNA of this discussion. I'm more interested in Arlington and McLean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For better or for worse, the new VYS staff is basing pretty much everything off tryouts that are 90% scrimmages, at least for rising U9s.

Personally, I think that may help you find the dominant players (and the weakest) but doesn't help you evaluate the rest. You have to know something about a kid's attitude and coachability.

I've seen a lot of travel players who make it because they had the athleticism to look good in scrimmage-based tryouts, and then two years later, the staff wonders why they haven't developed.

I hear (second-hand) that PAC does it differently. They have tons of open dates and only require attendance at two (three is encouraged), so they don't have huge crowds at a couple of required events. Then they actually coach players in the tryout. Even if you don't make a team or decide to go elsewhere, you get a free lesson. (Well, almost free -- they ask you to bring a plain white shirt, and they scrawl a number on it. So you're out the cost of a plain white shirt.)

I'm confused about these complaints about using all scrimmaging at tryouts to select players .... what else would you propose that would be better at identifying the better kids? In the scrimmaging the coaches can see a players athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, creativity, footskills, field vision, etc. What else would you have them do at tryouts?

We're talking rising U9 here. Some kids are 8 years/9 months old. Some are 7 years/9 months old. That's an eternity when you're talking about "athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, etc."

You shouldn't be looking at these kids as if they're anywhere close to a finished product. It's not about how good they are now. It's about how good they CAN be.

So get to know the kids. Run them through some drills. See if they're coachable. See their upside.

OK, thanks for explaining. I've coached travel from U9 through U12 and I think you are just expecting too much from U9 tryouts. Ask any travel club technical director or any qualified travel coach and she/he will say they can get a sense of the soccer "upside" of a player from watching the player scrimmage. Scrimmaging is a much better use of the limited observation time than doing any kind of "drills" for 8 year olds. And unfortunately it is just not realistic for a coach to "get to know" EACH of the dozens of kids that show up at a U9 tryout.

Of course as you note, kids change quite a bit over time, both physically and mentally, so there is no science that can tell you how good an 8 year old might be someday as a soccer player based on one or two 90 minute tryouts. Some kids fall in love with soccer at a later age, while other talented soccer players at the younger ages drop the sport altogether within a couple years. But the good news is that U9 is just the very beginning of the road. Travel team rosters change dramatically at most clubs during U10-U12 as teams get bigger and kids see the time and commiment it takes to play at the higher levels in this area. So if your child does not make the "A" team at U9 she can practice hard and play well on the "B" team or "C" team and try to move up again at tryouts for U10 (and U11 and U12 etc). Good luck!

Frankly, it's all the more reason we shouldn't be doing tryouts at this age. U.S. Youth Soccer says U10 players shouldn't be exposed to tryouts and shouldn't be labeled "recreational" or "competitive." There are plenty of alternatives -- have advanced programs for House players, pick players from that pool for occasional "travel" games and tournaments, etc. Then by the time your players are U11s, you have a pretty good idea of what to expect.

That's not going to happen in our lifetime, of course, so we have to make do with what we have. And what we have at the moment are a bunch of tryouts taking place in 90-degree, 90 percent humidity weather. You'll learn a lot about a player's heat tolerance but not much else.

So I'm really curious about the PAC approach. Does anyone else do that? Does it only work at smaller clubs?

Would you say that tryouts sort of start even earlier, with age 7, for NoVa teams that participate in the crossover league? It was surprising to see at last year's U9 tryouts how well the trainers already knew 75 percent of the players. I wonder what form the escalation will take next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For better or for worse, the new VYS staff is basing pretty much everything off tryouts that are 90% scrimmages, at least for rising U9s.

Personally, I think that may help you find the dominant players (and the weakest) but doesn't help you evaluate the rest. You have to know something about a kid's attitude and coachability.

I've seen a lot of travel players who make it because they had the athleticism to look good in scrimmage-based tryouts, and then two years later, the staff wonders why they haven't developed.

I hear (second-hand) that PAC does it differently. They have tons of open dates and only require attendance at two (three is encouraged), so they don't have huge crowds at a couple of required events. Then they actually coach players in the tryout. Even if you don't make a team or decide to go elsewhere, you get a free lesson. (Well, almost free -- they ask you to bring a plain white shirt, and they scrawl a number on it. So you're out the cost of a plain white shirt.)

I'm confused about these complaints about using all scrimmaging at tryouts to select players .... what else would you propose that would be better at identifying the better kids? In the scrimmaging the coaches can see a players athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, creativity, footskills, field vision, etc. What else would you have them do at tryouts?

We're talking rising U9 here. Some kids are 8 years/9 months old. Some are 7 years/9 months old. That's an eternity when you're talking about "athleticism, quickness, anticipation, aggressiveness, reaction speed, toughness, etc."

You shouldn't be looking at these kids as if they're anywhere close to a finished product. It's not about how good they are now. It's about how good they CAN be.

So get to know the kids. Run them through some drills. See if they're coachable. See their upside.

OK, thanks for explaining. I've coached travel from U9 through U12 and I think you are just expecting too much from U9 tryouts. Ask any travel club technical director or any qualified travel coach and she/he will say they can get a sense of the soccer "upside" of a player from watching the player scrimmage. Scrimmaging is a much better use of the limited observation time than doing any kind of "drills" for 8 year olds. And unfortunately it is just not realistic for a coach to "get to know" EACH of the dozens of kids that show up at a U9 tryout.

Of course as you note, kids change quite a bit over time, both physically and mentally, so there is no science that can tell you how good an 8 year old might be someday as a soccer player based on one or two 90 minute tryouts. Some kids fall in love with soccer at a later age, while other talented soccer players at the younger ages drop the sport altogether within a couple years. But the good news is that U9 is just the very beginning of the road. Travel team rosters change dramatically at most clubs during U10-U12 as teams get bigger and kids see the time and commiment it takes to play at the higher levels in this area. So if your child does not make the "A" team at U9 she can practice hard and play well on the "B" team or "C" team and try to move up again at tryouts for U10 (and U11 and U12 etc). Good luck!

Frankly, it's all the more reason we shouldn't be doing tryouts at this age. U.S. Youth Soccer says U10 players shouldn't be exposed to tryouts and shouldn't be labeled "recreational" or "competitive." There are plenty of alternatives -- have advanced programs for House players, pick players from that pool for occasional "travel" games and tournaments, etc. Then by the time your players are U11s, you have a pretty good idea of what to expect.

That's not going to happen in our lifetime, of course, so we have to make do with what we have. And what we have at the moment are a bunch of tryouts taking place in 90-degree, 90 percent humidity weather. You'll learn a lot about a player's heat tolerance but not much else.

So I'm really curious about the PAC approach. Does anyone else do that? Does it only work at smaller clubs?

Would you say that tryouts sort of start even earlier, with age 7, for NoVa teams that participate in the crossover league? It was surprising to see at last year's U9 tryouts how well the trainers already knew 75 percent of the players. I wonder what form the escalation will take next.

Yes. DC tried out for a different club than our home club, and unbeknownst to us many of the kids had been playing crossover and were basically already selected for the U9 travel team. I didn't even know crossover existed at the time, because our club did not participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would you say that tryouts sort of start even earlier, with age 7, for NoVa teams that participate in the crossover league? It was surprising to see at last year's U9 tryouts how well the trainers already knew 75 percent of the players. I wonder what form the escalation will take next.

Depends on the club. This year at VYS, with the staff in transition, crossover play will have little to no bearing on travel tryouts. (Not that it was ever a guarantee, anyway -- I knew plenty of kids who made travel without playing crossover and plenty of crossover kids who didn't make it.)

Some clubs have tryouts or another selection process for the crossover program itself. (VYS does not -- you sign up, you're in.) These are de facto U8 travel teams. Stands to reason that most of those kids will also play U9 travel.

This thread or board or whatever it is started with a VYS parent complaining about some parent-volunteer travel coaches. 51.999 pages later, the art of the VYS gripe remains completely integral to the DNA of this discussion. I'm more interested in Arlington and McLean.

And wouldn't you know it -- now VYS is getting rid of the parent coaches. (Head coaches, anyway -- they'll still have parent assistants.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the entire board of VYS post here? Way too many people getting defensive/protective over the program.

I don't know -- this seems like a discussion with diverse views on the tryouts, none particularly defensive.

I have no idea why VYS so dominates this discussion. No DCUM users in McLean? Loudoun? Arlington? Prince William?

All clubs have issues -- I'm hearing a big, big rumbling out of McLean. Not sure if the foot dropped yet.

What is going on at McLean? My son was going to try out there. Haven't heard anything amiss.

I have heard many teams in McLean are going to struggle to keep top players. Boys and girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the entire board of VYS post here? Way too many people getting defensive/protective over the program.

I don't know -- this seems like a discussion with diverse views on the tryouts, none particularly defensive.

I have no idea why VYS so dominates this discussion. No DCUM users in McLean? Loudoun? Arlington? Prince William?

All clubs have issues -- I'm hearing a big, big rumbling out of McLean. Not sure if the foot dropped yet.

What is going on at McLean? My son was going to try out there. Haven't heard anything amiss.

I have heard many teams in McLean are going to struggle to keep top players. Boys and girls.

Well--top players in other clubs--if you are unhappy---time to switch to McLean--lots of openings.