TJ Falls to 14th in the Nation Per US News

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The principal in one of the recent emails expressed concerns with significant number of admitted "9th grade students scoring below proficient on the initial Math Inventory", and needing to put them on ALEKS remedial math starting in the third month itself. If admissions was merit based, remedial math should not be needed at the school start.

With a lower caliber student body being admitted using equity instead of merit as the criteria, TJ's ranking continues to decline from 1st in the nation to now 14th nationally.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/VAEDUFCPS/bulletins/38d509c

Can you find me where it says there's a "significant number"? All I see is that the School Improvement Plan progress report shows:

By the end of the 2023-2024 school year, 100% of 9th grade students scoring below proficient on the initial Math Inventory will demonstrate proficiency on the end of year Math Inventory assessment.

Progress Report: We are on track to achieve our measurable outcome. Teachers are providing all 9th graders with algebra mastery assignments through ALEKS, a digital resource that provides personalized learning. With the implementation of practice opportunities, freshmen will continue to build on and reinforce their algebra skills.

If they had 2 kids who scored below proficient, wouldn't that be an easy win for the principal to put in the school improvement plan? I don't see anywhere that said there were tons of 9th graders who needed help.

Yeah, there’s no mention of it being a significant number of students, though there’s an argument to be made that no student at TJ should be remedial in Algebra 1 to begin with.

Lots of people make that argument - but I understood TJ to be a STE or M high school, not a STE and M high school. It's for one or more of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math, not all of them.

But STE need strong math foundation too. Again, we are talking about Algebra 1, which is pretty basic math material.

Equity demands STEM now include “A” for “arts,” thus “STEAM.”

By all means; let’s admit good artists into an advanced academic program and expect it will remain an advanced academic program LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our URM student from Longfellow with Geometry and multiple years of stem contest participation did not receive an offer. It is asinine to suggest we could have increased our TJ chances had we moved back to our previous Whitman Middle neighborhood. Current system is broken, and doesn't work for merit URM students.

There is a rising sophomore at woodson that won the 3M science competition by developing a treatment for skin cancer. He's black. I don't know if he even applied to TJ but there is nothing about the current process that would have ensured that he gets in.

He probably felt unwelcome. Many of the students assume any URM only got in because of fictional quotas.

So he felt more welcome at woodson? Come on now!
There were no quotas under the old system. And there is definitely a quota now. 1.5% from every school.

The culture at TJ is very hostile any URMs. Even people here still constantly go on about fictional quotas or affirmative action that doesn't exist in a race blind process. I can understand why he'd feel more welcome at his base school.

There is absolutely a quota. It is a school based quota. And while schools may be a proxy for race in a school system with high segregation, they are not actually selecting for race. But they aren't selecting for merit either.

Yes, they take the top 1.5% from each school, but the process is race blind. That's a matter of law.

Just because it's race blind doesn't mean there isn't a racially driven motive.
See Voter ID laws
See Literacy Tests
See Poll Taxes
See Grandfather Laws

In the case of the TJ admissions process, the 1.5% is an attempt to use the inherent racial segregation at our schools to achieve racial goals.
I am not horribly offended by the process but it was in fact driven by racial concerns.
I mean it's a public school and subject to the democratic process. Anyone that doesn't like it is free to run for the school board.
It appears that the supreme court is satisfied to allow this sort of thing for now, but as was the case with affirmative action, as things get more and more extreme in an effort to achieve particular racial goals, it may cross the line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our URM student from Longfellow with Geometry and multiple years of stem contest participation did not receive an offer. It is asinine to suggest we could have increased our TJ chances had we moved back to our previous Whitman Middle neighborhood. Current system is broken, and doesn't work for merit URM students.

There is a rising sophomore at woodson that won the 3M science competition by developing a treatment for skin cancer. He's black. I don't know if he even applied to TJ but there is nothing about the current process that would have ensured that he gets in.

He probably felt unwelcome. Many of the students assume any URM only got in because of fictional quotas.

So he felt more welcome at woodson? Come on now!
There were no quotas under the old system. And there is definitely a quota now. 1.5% from every school.

The culture at TJ is very hostile any URMs. Even people here still constantly go on about fictional quotas or affirmative action that doesn't exist in a race blind process. I can understand why he'd feel more welcome at his base school.

Proof?

Look at the ridiculous racist tropes thrown in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our URM student from Longfellow with Geometry and multiple years of stem contest participation did not receive an offer. It is asinine to suggest we could have increased our TJ chances had we moved back to our previous Whitman Middle neighborhood. Current system is broken, and doesn't work for merit URM students.

There is a rising sophomore at woodson that won the 3M science competition by developing a treatment for skin cancer. He's black. I don't know if he even applied to TJ but there is nothing about the current process that would have ensured that he gets in.

He probably felt unwelcome. Many of the students assume any URM only got in because of fictional quotas.

So he felt more welcome at woodson? Come on now!
There were no quotas under the old system. And there is definitely a quota now. 1.5% from every school.

The culture at TJ is very hostile any URMs. Even people here still constantly go on about fictional quotas or affirmative action that doesn't exist in a race blind process. I can understand why he'd feel more welcome at his base school.

There is absolutely a quota. It is a school based quota. And while schools may be a proxy for race in a school system with high segregation, they are not actually selecting for race. But they aren't selecting for merit either.

Yes, they take the top 1.5% from each school, but the process is race blind. That's a matter of law.

Just because it's race blind doesn't mean there isn't a racially driven motive.
See Voter ID laws
See Literacy Tests
See Poll Taxes
See Grandfather Laws

In the case of the TJ admissions process, the 1.5% is an attempt to use the inherent racial segregation at our schools to achieve racial goals.
I am not horribly offended by the process but it was in fact driven by racial concerns.
I mean it's a public school and subject to the democratic process. Anyone that doesn't like it is free to run for the school board.
It appears that the supreme court is satisfied to allow this sort of thing for now, but as was the case with affirmative action, as things get more and more extreme in an effort to achieve particular racial goals, it may cross the line.

I think the approach of ensuring 1.5% per school as driven by socioeconomic diversity concerns moreso than by racial ones, but obviously race and SES are correlated, and the former is the more readily observable one.

But if you look at the data there has been a much bigger relative change in the number of FARMS students (from 41 -> 201 students, or nearly 5x) than in URMs (from 87 -> 196, or about 2.25x) from 2020-21 to 2022-23 (don't know when the most recent school year data will get posted).

Source: https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13::::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our URM student from Longfellow with Geometry and multiple years of stem contest participation did not receive an offer. It is asinine to suggest we could have increased our TJ chances had we moved back to our previous Whitman Middle neighborhood. Current system is broken, and doesn't work for merit URM students.

There is a rising sophomore at woodson that won the 3M science competition by developing a treatment for skin cancer. He's black. I don't know if he even applied to TJ but there is nothing about the current process that would have ensured that he gets in.

He probably felt unwelcome. Many of the students assume any URM only got in because of fictional quotas.

So he felt more welcome at woodson? Come on now!
There were no quotas under the old system. And there is definitely a quota now. 1.5% from every school.

The culture at TJ is very hostile any URMs. Even people here still constantly go on about fictional quotas or affirmative action that doesn't exist in a race blind process. I can understand why he'd feel more welcome at his base school.

There is absolutely a quota. It is a school based quota. And while schools may be a proxy for race in a school system with high segregation, they are not actually selecting for race. But they aren't selecting for merit either.

Yes, they take the top 1.5% from each school, but the process is race blind. That's a matter of law.

Just because it's race blind doesn't mean there isn't a racially driven motive.
See Voter ID laws
See Literacy Tests
See Poll Taxes
See Grandfather Laws

In the case of the TJ admissions process, the 1.5% is an attempt to use the inherent racial segregation at our schools to achieve racial goals.
I am not horribly offended by the process but it was in fact driven by racial concerns.
I mean it's a public school and subject to the democratic process. Anyone that doesn't like it is free to run for the school board.
It appears that the supreme court is satisfied to allow this sort of thing for now, but as was the case with affirmative action, as things get more and more extreme in an effort to achieve particular racial goals, it may cross the line.

I think the approach of ensuring 1.5% per school as driven by socioeconomic diversity concerns moreso than by racial ones, but obviously race and SES are correlated, and the former is the more readily observable one.

But if you look at the data there has been a much bigger relative change in the number of FARMS students (from 41 -> 201 students, or nearly 5x) than in URMs (from 87 -> 196, or about 2.25x) from 2020-21 to 2022-23 (don't know when the most recent school year data will get posted).

Source: https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13::::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0

I love what BBCode does to URLs.

[Anonymous]

Oh no! It used to be in the top 0.001% of high schools in the country according to some ranking and now it's only in the top 0.01% of high schools in the country according to some ranking! The horror! The mediocrity!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our URM student from Longfellow with Geometry and multiple years of stem contest participation did not receive an offer. It is asinine to suggest we could have increased our TJ chances had we moved back to our previous Whitman Middle neighborhood. Current system is broken, and doesn't work for merit URM students.

There is a rising sophomore at woodson that won the 3M science competition by developing a treatment for skin cancer. He's black. I don't know if he even applied to TJ but there is nothing about the current process that would have ensured that he gets in.

He probably felt unwelcome. Many of the students assume any URM only got in because of fictional quotas.

So he felt more welcome at woodson? Come on now!
There were no quotas under the old system. And there is definitely a quota now. 1.5% from every school.

The culture at TJ is very hostile any URMs. Even people here still constantly go on about fictional quotas or affirmative action that doesn't exist in a race blind process. I can understand why he'd feel more welcome at his base school.

There is absolutely a quota. It is a school based quota. And while schools may be a proxy for race in a school system with high segregation, they are not actually selecting for race. But they aren't selecting for merit either.

Yes, they take the top 1.5% from each school, but the process is race blind. That's a matter of law.

Just because it's race blind doesn't mean there isn't a racially driven motive.
See Voter ID laws
See Literacy Tests
See Poll Taxes
See Grandfather Laws

In the case of the TJ admissions process, the 1.5% is an attempt to use the inherent racial segregation at our schools to achieve racial goals.
I am not horribly offended by the process but it was in fact driven by racial concerns.
I mean it's a public school and subject to the democratic process. Anyone that doesn't like it is free to run for the school board.
It appears that the supreme court is satisfied to allow this sort of thing for now, but as was the case with affirmative action, as things get more and more extreme in an effort to achieve particular racial goals, it may cross the line.

I think the approach of ensuring 1.5% per school as driven by socioeconomic diversity concerns moreso than by racial ones, but obviously race and SES are correlated, and the former is the more readily observable one.

But if you look at the data there has been a much bigger relative change in the number of FARMS students (from 41 -> 201 students, or nearly 5x) than in URMs (from 87 -> 196, or about 2.25x) from 2020-21 to 2022-23 (don't know when the most recent school year data will get posted).

Source: https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13::::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0

I love what BBCode does to URLs.

Use tiny url

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations, FCPS board successfully proved to the GIGO concept.

The ranking was based on data from 2022 or earlier so it fell before they fixed the admission process.

Yes, TJ fell to #14 based on data from before the admission changes. That was established earlier in this thread.

The ranking was based on data from 2022 and earlier, so before they fixed admissions, but once they get the updated stats, TJ will be back on top.

This is incorrect. The first class of the new admissions policy took their SOL in 21-22. This is a large reason for the drop.

How could gifted kids fail SOL? SOL is pretty basic stuff.

I don't know that they failed SOL.
It could just be slightly lower test scores overall. The top of these lists can be very sensitive to small changes.
One of the metrics used is how well the URM students are doing and if you suddenly start bringing in URM students for the sake of bringing in URM students, they are likely to under-perform the URM students at other top schools where students are selected on merit. It's only 10% of the score but like I said, the top of these lists can be sensitive to relatively small changes.

DP At least six TJ students failed an SOL in 2021-22. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/statistics-reports/sol-test-pass-rates-other-results
They should add SOL scores to the criteria examined in the admissions process so that students with content gaps could be identified ahead of time to avoid putting that kind of stress on students.

The 2021-22 SOL failures did influence TJ's 2024 rating. From US News, "Statewide math, reading and science assessment data used in the 2024 rankings in almost all cases is from the 2021-2022 school year. For a few states, earlier years' data is used." https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/articles/rankings-faq

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh no! It used to be in the top 0.001% of high schools in the country according to some ranking and now it's only in the top 0.01% of high schools in the country according to some ranking! The horror! The mediocrity!

😄

So true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations, FCPS board successfully proved to the GIGO concept.

The ranking was based on data from 2022 or earlier so it fell before they fixed the admission process.

Yes, TJ fell to #14 based on data from before the admission changes. That was established earlier in this thread.

The ranking was based on data from 2022 and earlier, so before they fixed admissions, but once they get the updated stats, TJ will be back on top.

This is incorrect. The first class of the new admissions policy took their SOL in 21-22. This is a large reason for the drop.

How could gifted kids fail SOL? SOL is pretty basic stuff.

I don't know that they failed SOL.
It could just be slightly lower test scores overall. The top of these lists can be very sensitive to small changes.
One of the metrics used is how well the URM students are doing and if you suddenly start bringing in URM students for the sake of bringing in URM students, they are likely to under-perform the URM students at other top schools where students are selected on merit. It's only 10% of the score but like I said, the top of these lists can be sensitive to relatively small changes.

DP At least six TJ students failed an SOL in 2021-22. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/statistics-reports/sol-test-pass-rates-other-results
They should add SOL scores to the criteria examined in the admissions process so that students with content gaps could be identified ahead of time to avoid putting that kind of stress on students.

The 2021-22 SOL failures did influence TJ's 2024 rating. From US News, "Statewide math, reading and science assessment data used in the 2024 rankings in almost all cases is from the 2021-2022 school year. For a few states, earlier years' data is used." https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/articles/rankings-faq

PP Prior to the recent admission change, no TJ student had failed a math, reading, or science SOL going back to the start of VDOE's posted series in 2005-06. Post admission change, at least six students failed one of these SOLs in 2021-22 (math 1, reading 1, science 6) and at least seven failed one of these in 2022-23 (math 4, reading 7).

These SOL failures are post-expedited retake. We do not know if additional students failed one of these SOLs their first time taking it, received remediation, and subsequently passed on retake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The principal in one of the recent emails expressed concerns with significant number of admitted "9th grade students scoring below proficient on the initial Math Inventory", and needing to put them on ALEKS remedial math starting in the third month itself. If admissions included proper evaluation, remedial math should not be needed at the school start.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/VAEDUFCPS/bulletins/38d509c

what about remedial after freshman year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our URM student from Longfellow with Geometry and multiple years of stem contest participation did not receive an offer. It is asinine to suggest we could have increased our TJ chances had we moved back to our previous Whitman Middle neighborhood. Current system is broken, and doesn't work for merit URM students.

There is a rising sophomore at woodson that won the 3M science competition by developing a treatment for skin cancer. He's black. I don't know if he even applied to TJ but there is nothing about the current process that would have ensured that he gets in.

He probably felt unwelcome. Many of the students assume any URM only got in because of fictional quotas.

So he felt more welcome at woodson? Come on now!
There were no quotas under the old system. And there is definitely a quota now. 1.5% from every school.

The culture at TJ is very hostile any URMs. Even people here still constantly go on about fictional quotas or affirmative action that doesn't exist in a race blind process. I can understand why he'd feel more welcome at his base school.

There is absolutely a quota. It is a school based quota. And while schools may be a proxy for race in a school system with high segregation, they are not actually selecting for race. But they aren't selecting for merit either.

Yes, they take the top 1.5% from each school, but the process is race blind. That's a matter of law.

Just because it's race blind doesn't mean there isn't a racially driven motive.
See Voter ID laws
See Literacy Tests
See Poll Taxes
See Grandfather Laws

In the case of the TJ admissions process, the 1.5% is an attempt to use the inherent racial segregation at our schools to achieve racial goals.
I am not horribly offended by the process but it was in fact driven by racial concerns.
I mean it's a public school and subject to the democratic process. Anyone that doesn't like it is free to run for the school board.
It appears that the supreme court is satisfied to allow this sort of thing for now, but as was the case with affirmative action, as things get more and more extreme in an effort to achieve particular racial goals, it may cross the line.

I think the approach of ensuring 1.5% per school as driven by socioeconomic diversity concerns moreso than by racial ones, but obviously race and SES are correlated, and the former is the more readily observable one.

But if you look at the data there has been a much bigger relative change in the number of FARMS students (from 41 -> 201 students, or nearly 5x) than in URMs (from 87 -> 196, or about 2.25x) from 2020-21 to 2022-23 (don't know when the most recent school year data will get posted).

Source: https://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:13::::0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0

It's clear there has been a significant change in FARM.

But it is undeniable that the intent behind all of this was race.

[Anonymous]

0.6%, <1%, of the class of 2024 came from a low-income family.

They wanted to eliminate the inequitable admissions process.

And look who benefited the most - Asian students from low-income families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:0.6%, <1%, of the class of 2024 came from a low-income family.

They wanted to eliminate the inequitable admissions process.

And look who benefited the most - Asian students from low-income families.

They wanted to balance race. This is clear from the email and text traffic between the FCPS board members. And in the process...

Asian admissions dropped even as the class size grew larger.
White admissions rose the most.

Between the last year under the old system and the most recent class:
white admissions rose by 54 (more than all other racial groups combined)
black admissions rose by 12
hispanic admissiosns rose by 25
multiracial rose by 7
asian admissions dropped by 40

To be fair the county is mostly white so if are trying to be more representative of the county you are going to get more white kids.
But you are selecting for race not merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:0.6%, <1%, of the class of 2024 came from a low-income family.

They wanted to eliminate the inequitable admissions process.

And look who benefited the most - Asian students from low-income families.

They wanted to balance race. This is clear from the email and text traffic between the FCPS board members. And in the process...

Asian admissions dropped even as the class size grew larger.
White admissions rose the most.

Between the last year under the old system and the most recent class:
white admissions rose by 54 (more than all other racial groups combined)
black admissions rose by 12
hispanic admissiosns rose by 25
multiracial rose by 7
asian admissions dropped by 40

To be fair the county is mostly white so if are trying to be more representative of the county you are going to get more white kids.
But you are selecting for race not merit.

should it be more representative of the demographic makeup of the county or the applications? If 95% of the applications for varsity ice hockey team are white students, or if 95% of the applications to high school basketball team are black students, or if 95% of the applications to math counts team are asian students, should the selected make-up in each of those teams still be based on county racial composition?