Financially hobbled for life- elite masters degree that don’t pay off

[Anonymous]

The arts are such a racket.
I work in theatre/film/TV
Many of my coworkers come out of NCSA
They graduates those kids with 100K of student loans
Then they try and get them hired outside of union contracts (which weakens the CBA) that of course lowers pay.
So they are dragging industry pay down by encouraging kids to work without an contract, after they graduate them with huge debt.

[Anonymous]

Forgive all student loans. Make college low cost. Done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The arts are such a racket.
I work in theatre/film/TV
Many of my coworkers come out of NCSA
They graduates those kids with 100K of student loans
Then they try and get them hired outside of union contracts (which weakens the CBA) that of course lowers pay.
So they are dragging industry pay down by encouraging kids to work without an contract, after they graduate them with huge debt.

+1

this article seems like a hit job on columbia when it's six-figure MFA programs everywhere that deserve a harsh look.

tho i thought it was interesting one of the reporters is an adjunct at columbia's journalism school, what a joke. a great place to get an excellent journalism education and $25k job.

[Anonymous]

Yeah I was surprised the J school is wasn't mentioned in the article.aybe the author working there explains it. I thought about going there for a hot minute and then decided to take a six month paid internship instead. Best decision ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forgive all student loans. Make college low cost. Done.

They already have. It's called community college, and it can land you a much higher paying job than an ivy MFA in film. It is not the government's responsibility to make elite private colleges affordable for everyone who wants to go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to one of these programs at a different Ivy and have several family members who did the same. None of us are trust fund wealthy but our parents were well off enough to just pay our tuition without us taking out loans. Most of my peers were the same.

I agree that the people who took out loans for these programs only have themselves to blame. Perhaps there should be more scholarships or need based aid but not loan forgiveness!

Of course you do. Degrees are for the idle rich; not for thee!

If it's a useless vanity degree, then yes, that's accurate. Part of the problem is that people who are perpetual students are asking for advice from professors who have never worked outside higher ed. That is how someone I know ended up with a PHD in Organizational Leadership. Her actual work experience in leading organizations is zero.

+1 There are a lot of things that the idle rich can do that us normal people can't.

Caveat Emptor.

The student is the buyer who should be aware.

[b]I also blame parents for not teaching their children BEFORE they go to college about finances and the cost of living, how borrowing and compounded interest works. We've been drilling this into our kids since the were 12.

You’re able to do this because you’re financially savvy. What about the academically advanced student who is the first in the family to go to college?

Exactly. I went to a parent discussion touring SVA in NYC for my DD (now at another art school)—they were telling parents to look into ParentPlus loans if tuition ($70,000?)! was a stretch. I wanted to stand up with a bullhorn and shout “No!! Don’t do that they can go elsewhere!!” I could not believe what I was hearing. My DD did not apply there, we could not swing that tuition and would not take loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Totally agree with pp who said Columbia is a bad actor here. It is crazy that they are allowed to do this. Where is Elizabeth Warren.

It's actually the government's fault. They backed these crazy loans that are essentially sub-prime loan-holders and the Universities just lined up to line their pockets with the proceeds. The students were the bag-holders. Meanwhile the economy is now also a bag-holder because all these young people are off to a slow start which ultimately places a drag on the economy. The government charged ridiculous interest rates on these sub-prime loans and has made a lot of money off of them. The loans should not necessarily be forgiven, but the interest should be forgiven and suspended indefinitely. The loans were made unscrupulously. Many more people would be out of debt if not for the interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to one of these programs at a different Ivy and have several family members who did the same. None of us are trust fund wealthy but our parents were well off enough to just pay our tuition without us taking out loans. Most of my peers were the same.

I agree that the people who took out loans for these programs only have themselves to blame. Perhaps there should be more scholarships or need based aid but not loan forgiveness!

Of course you do. Degrees are for the idle rich; not for thee!

If it's a useless vanity degree, then yes, that's accurate. Part of the problem is that people who are perpetual students are asking for advice from professors who have never worked outside higher ed. That is how someone I know ended up with a PHD in Organizational Leadership. Her actual work experience in leading organizations is zero.

+1 There are a lot of things that the idle rich can do that us normal people can't.

Caveat Emptor.

The student is the buyer who should be aware.

[b]I also blame parents for not teaching their children BEFORE they go to college about finances and the cost of living, how borrowing and compounded interest works. We've been drilling this into our kids since the were 12.

You’re able to do this because you’re financially savvy. What about the academically advanced student who is the first in the family to go to college?

Exactly. I went to a parent discussion touring SVA in NYC for my DD (now at another art school)—they were telling parents to look into ParentPlus loans if tuition ($70,000?)! was a stretch. I wanted to stand up with a bullhorn and shout “No!! Don’t do that they can go elsewhere!!” I could not believe what I was hearing. My DD did not apply there, we could not swing that tuition and would not take loans.

Ridiculous when Cooper Union is free. Besides you can do courses at SVA without getting a whole degree there.

The reality is that the universities have the ability to grant much more scholarship money for these MFA programs than they do. As with medical schools in big cities, the best ones will increasingly become free I think. Like Yale Drama School just received a gift that will make it tuition free forever.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but I’m laughing.

I wanted to go to graduate school to study dance, so I waited until I was almost 26, earned a merit scholarship that covered full tuition, worked my way through with two jobs, and graduated with only a few thousand dollars of debt.

you JUST DONT GO to graduate school unless a. It’s gonna ensure six figures when you are done or b. It’s paid for.

I have a nice job now, an amazing Pilates habit, a family, a house, and no debt.

My BIL also pursued an arts route and a fancy MFA from a prestige school and makes five figures as a 45 year old. He had to ask his in-laws for a down payment for a house, and is still paying off debt.

The only right way to be an artist is to be good enough or clever enough to convince someone else to pay you to do it : )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not to be cruel, but there's a lot of fake colleges out there that don't pay off too. Basically any of the for profit colleges and a lot of small, expensive private colleges. I don't see why any of those should be forgiven. If you can't get into a great state college, you should rethink going to college. We need to make trade schools a viable, normal path for kids too.

Small expensive private schools give up-front money that puts it in line with state schools. Just having gone through admissions with my own, also when I went to school waay long ago, and couldn't afford anything, small private school did me right. So many people overlook them just from the sticker price, but private funding brings it down. Don't overlook them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally agree with pp who said Columbia is a bad actor here. It is crazy that they are allowed to do this. Where is Elizabeth Warren.

It's actually the government's fault. They backed these crazy loans that are essentially sub-prime loan-holders and the Universities just lined up to line their pockets with the proceeds. The students were the bag-holders. Meanwhile the economy is now also a bag-holder because all these young people are off to a slow start which ultimately places a drag on the economy. The government charged ridiculous interest rates on these sub-prime loans and has made a lot of money off of them. The loans should not necessarily be forgiven, but the interest should be forgiven and suspended indefinitely. The loans were made unscrupulously. Many more people would be out of debt if not for the interest.

I agree that the government has some culpability regarding backing the loans, but you can't separate out personal responsibility from the equation. Many people chose community college/state college or other less prestigious options based on what they could afford and paid their own way. Or they skipped college because they couldn't afford it. Or they worked very hard and managed to pay off their loans 100%. It's hard to quantify the trajectory your life might have taken had you gone to an ivy fully compensated vs a mediocre state school while working weekends and summers. I could get on board with eliminating interest, but forgiving 300k for an MFA sounds like funding someone's lavish lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not to be cruel, but there's a lot of fake colleges out there that don't pay off too. Basically any of the for profit colleges and a lot of small, expensive private colleges. I don't see why any of those should be forgiven. If you can't get into a great state college, you should rethink going to college. We need to make trade schools a viable, normal path for kids too.

+ 1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Totally agree with pp who said Columbia is a bad actor here. It is crazy that they are allowed to do this. Where is Elizabeth Warren.

It's actually the government's fault. They backed these crazy loans that are essentially sub-prime loan-holders and the Universities just lined up to line their pockets with the proceeds. The students were the bag-holders. Meanwhile the economy is now also a bag-holder because all these young people are off to a slow start which ultimately places a drag on the economy. The government charged ridiculous interest rates on these sub-prime loans and has made a lot of money off of them. The loans should not necessarily be forgiven, but the interest should be forgiven and suspended indefinitely. The loans were made unscrupulously. Many more people would be out of debt if not for the interest.

Agree government policies are also to blame. But have universities lobbied for those policies? I don't know but they do benefit from them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive all student loans. Make college low cost. Done.

They already have. It's called community college, and it can land you a much higher paying job than an ivy MFA in film. It is not the government's responsibility to make elite private colleges affordable for everyone who wants to go there.

This

This

This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forgive all student loans. Make college low cost. Done.

They already have. It's called community college, and it can land you a much higher paying job than an ivy MFA in film. It is not the government's responsibility to make elite private colleges affordable for everyone who wants to go there.

This

This

This

Yep. No one forced this person to go to the 10th oldest university in the country to get a vanity degree.

Free choice.