Half-days on Wednesdays!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am DCPS teacher and we would never finish the curriculum if we lost that instructional time each week. There are already so many disruptions in the school schedule- we have lots of three day weekends, PD days, parent teacher conference days, etc. This year I have probably covered 80% of the material I would normally cover. And some of the stuff I did cover I rushed through because I am a HS teacher and the AP exams happen at a certain time no matter what the school district decides to do with the schedule.

I think the idea is that this time would be in lieu of PD days. So it could actually offer more consistency, not less. And help working parents, since it's easier to extend an aftercare program by two hours a week than to find random all-day childcare throughout the year on PD days. As a parent, I would love it if PD time was built into the week instead of having to deal with random PD days throughout the year -- they are far and away the most annoying scheduling issue we deal with on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 55 years old and was educated in what was considered a very fine public school system in Massachusetts. We had half-day Wednesdays every week from 1st thru 6th grade and every other Wednesday in 7th and 8th grade. It was considered teacher development time, and so normal and routine that it was completely unremarkable. And yes, both my parents WOTH fulltime.

Was a large portion of your school system considered low income? Did a large portion not attend virtual school for an entire year? Was a large portion of your school system already below grade level? That is what DCPS is dealing with here. I went to a fine school system in NY- every year kids from my HS (250 kids per grade) went to all the Ivies, MIT, etc. I would never advocate that the systems at that school be used in DCPS, it’s apples and oranges.

Precisely.

Maybe you're trying to make us feel better with "I had half days once a week, and I turned out fine!" but it isn't helpful. There's probably a reason DCPS hasn't done half days before (or at least in a long time). Considering doing so now after the year we've had is mind-boggling.

I think a major reason DCPS has never tried it before is that there is a cadre of DCPS parents who are super intense and combative and will absolutely lose their minds if schools *consider* doing anything that does not mesh with their strict mental image of what school is and should be. Granted, the teachers also often have this extremely unproductive attitude, as do many people at Central. It's a serious problem with the district.

And yes, it's also a big reason why we had no in person school this year. We had teachers dig in their heals on "only when it's safe" but then we also had administrators and parents dig in too. There were ideas floating around that would have gotten kids in school, at least part time, and offered teachers more safety. Namely, outdoor school. But people in this district don't know what to do with an outside the box idea like that. When we tried to propose it at our school, we were told 90 reasons it was "impossible" (most of which were actually addressable problems) and it never went anywhere and now here we are, a year later, with most kids not getting a single second of IPL this year.

Which is why, I beg of you: just wait to hear what the plan is for Wednesdays before deciding it's terrible. Could you stay open to the idea that it might be a good idea? We're talking about maybe 2 fewer hours of instruction, to be replaced by something else. Do you really believe that there is nothing as beneficial to your child as that two hours of instruction? Don't you want to find out what it might be before you bring the hammer down? Come on.

DCPS literally just cancelled school for over a year. So no, I don't think this has to do with a "cadre of DCPS parents" doing anything. And no, I don't need to hear anything about this stupid plan before I reject it. It reduces instructional time, is all I need to know. There's nothing "innovative" about it. You're naive.

And let me guess that you yourself were adamantly opposed to bringing kids back in November, while pushing your silly vision of "outdoor school" instead. you're part of the problem.

Wrong. I always prioritized getting kids back in school and only proposed outdoor school as an option when it became clear that the teachers and the administration were too far apart to make in person instruction likely in the fall. But your response demonstrates why it's impossible to get anything productive done in DCPS. You hate everyone, you assume everyone is stupid and irredeemable, you dismiss any new idea as wrong and bad, you are convinced of your own righteousness and unwilling to even listen another point of view. You are not merely a part of the problem. You, and people like you (including many teachers, administrators, and people in Central) Are. The. Problem.

There is no willingness to problem solve in DCPS. Just infighting and viciousness. I am so tired of it. Our kids suffer because of it.

I mean yes, at this point, I am going to assume that nobody looks out for the interests of kids unless they are pushing getting kids back into school to the max. You seem to be afraid of confrontation. If you can't understand why many parents are completely appalled that this is even being floated, at a point when DCPS is being coy about what "5 days a week in person" even means, then you don't really have any understanding of the actual dynamics here.

Afraid of confrontation? Because I don't agree with you?

I understand all the dynamics here. I just don't agree with you. I get that you are appalled. You've made that clear. I think you need to recalibrate what you consider appalling.

I think most people who are responding angrily to this (rumored) proposal are simply afraid that they will have to pick their kids up early on Wednesdays. I think if a proposal was floated that provided some form of programming for kids during the teacher's PD time, but made it optional, you'd see the majority of parents open to the idea. Most parents understand that sitting at a desk "to the max" is not necessarily beneficial to kids. A lot of parents worry about info overload and whether their kids are really absorbing material, and studies have shown that regular breaks from study actually increase info uptake. There are families with SAHPs who would probably appreciate the chance to do other activities with their kids on Wednesdays, and there are also plenty of working parents who could see the benefit of setting aside time for remedial acceleration for kids who need it (helping kids catch up actually benefits all kids because it improves the classroom experience for kids who are at grade level as well). You assume the only way to care about kids or education is the way you do it, and you are wrong about that.

OMG. Honestly at this point, if you don't understand why parents are p*ssed at the idea of having to pick their kids up early on Wednesdays, you're not even trying to grasp the situation. And miss me with what "studies have shown." Studies have shown that being out of school has been a disaster, and any steps by DCPS to cater to teachers even more is just really not going to fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am DCPS teacher and we would never finish the curriculum if we lost that instructional time each week. There are already so many disruptions in the school schedule- we have lots of three day weekends, PD days, parent teacher conference days, etc. This year I have probably covered 80% of the material I would normally cover. And some of the stuff I did cover I rushed through because I am a HS teacher and the AP exams happen at a certain time no matter what the school district decides to do with the schedule.

I think the idea is that this time would be in lieu of PD days. So it could actually offer more consistency, not less. And help working parents, since it's easier to extend an aftercare program by two hours a week than to find random all-day childcare throughout the year on PD days. As a parent, I would love it if PD time was built into the week instead of having to deal with random PD days throughout the year -- they are far and away the most annoying scheduling issue we deal with on a regular basis.

But the numbers don't add up. There are only 5 PDs, about 30 hrs total. Cutting out 2 hours of instructional time every week would be about 85 hours lost. If they want to spread out the 30 hours of PD over early release Wednesdays during the year, I would think that was OK, but maybe not the smartest use of the schedule. However I am completely unwilling to countenance removing 45 hours of instructional time -- that's over a week of school, gone!

[Anonymous]

Another teacher adding that I haven't heard anything about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 55 years old and was educated in what was considered a very fine public school system in Massachusetts. We had half-day Wednesdays every week from 1st thru 6th grade and every other Wednesday in 7th and 8th grade. It was considered teacher development time, and so normal and routine that it was completely unremarkable. And yes, both my parents WOTH fulltime.

Was a large portion of your school system considered low income? Did a large portion not attend virtual school for an entire year? Was a large portion of your school system already below grade level? That is what DCPS is dealing with here. I went to a fine school system in NY- every year kids from my HS (250 kids per grade) went to all the Ivies, MIT, etc. I would never advocate that the systems at that school be used in DCPS, it’s apples and oranges.

Precisely.

Maybe you're trying to make us feel better with "I had half days once a week, and I turned out fine!" but it isn't helpful. There's probably a reason DCPS hasn't done half days before (or at least in a long time). Considering doing so now after the year we've had is mind-boggling.

I think a major reason DCPS has never tried it before is that there is a cadre of DCPS parents who are super intense and combative and will absolutely lose their minds if schools *consider* doing anything that does not mesh with their strict mental image of what school is and should be. Granted, the teachers also often have this extremely unproductive attitude, as do many people at Central. It's a serious problem with the district.

And yes, it's also a big reason why we had no in person school this year. We had teachers dig in their heals on "only when it's safe" but then we also had administrators and parents dig in too. There were ideas floating around that would have gotten kids in school, at least part time, and offered teachers more safety. Namely, outdoor school. But people in this district don't know what to do with an outside the box idea like that. When we tried to propose it at our school, we were told 90 reasons it was "impossible" (most of which were actually addressable problems) and it never went anywhere and now here we are, a year later, with most kids not getting a single second of IPL this year.

Which is why, I beg of you: just wait to hear what the plan is for Wednesdays before deciding it's terrible. Could you stay open to the idea that it might be a good idea? We're talking about maybe 2 fewer hours of instruction, to be replaced by something else. Do you really believe that there is nothing as beneficial to your child as that two hours of instruction? Don't you want to find out what it might be before you bring the hammer down? Come on.

DCPS literally just cancelled school for over a year. So no, I don't think this has to do with a "cadre of DCPS parents" doing anything. And no, I don't need to hear anything about this stupid plan before I reject it. It reduces instructional time, is all I need to know. There's nothing "innovative" about it. You're naive.

LOL ing at literally as I read this on my lunch break at school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 55 years old and was educated in what was considered a very fine public school system in Massachusetts. We had half-day Wednesdays every week from 1st thru 6th grade and every other Wednesday in 7th and 8th grade. It was considered teacher development time, and so normal and routine that it was completely unremarkable. And yes, both my parents WOTH fulltime.

Was a large portion of your school system considered low income? Did a large portion not attend virtual school for an entire year? Was a large portion of your school system already below grade level? That is what DCPS is dealing with here. I went to a fine school system in NY- every year kids from my HS (250 kids per grade) went to all the Ivies, MIT, etc. I would never advocate that the systems at that school be used in DCPS, it’s apples and oranges.

Precisely.

Maybe you're trying to make us feel better with "I had half days once a week, and I turned out fine!" but it isn't helpful. There's probably a reason DCPS hasn't done half days before (or at least in a long time). Considering doing so now after the year we've had is mind-boggling.

I think a major reason DCPS has never tried it before is that there is a cadre of DCPS parents who are super intense and combative and will absolutely lose their minds if schools *consider* doing anything that does not mesh with their strict mental image of what school is and should be. Granted, the teachers also often have this extremely unproductive attitude, as do many people at Central. It's a serious problem with the district.

And yes, it's also a big reason why we had no in person school this year. We had teachers dig in their heals on "only when it's safe" but then we also had administrators and parents dig in too. There were ideas floating around that would have gotten kids in school, at least part time, and offered teachers more safety. Namely, outdoor school. But people in this district don't know what to do with an outside the box idea like that. When we tried to propose it at our school, we were told 90 reasons it was "impossible" (most of which were actually addressable problems) and it never went anywhere and now here we are, a year later, with most kids not getting a single second of IPL this year.

Which is why, I beg of you: just wait to hear what the plan is for Wednesdays before deciding it's terrible. Could you stay open to the idea that it might be a good idea? We're talking about maybe 2 fewer hours of instruction, to be replaced by something else. Do you really believe that there is nothing as beneficial to your child as that two hours of instruction? Don't you want to find out what it might be before you bring the hammer down? Come on.

DCPS literally just cancelled school for over a year. So no, I don't think this has to do with a "cadre of DCPS parents" doing anything. And no, I don't need to hear anything about this stupid plan before I reject it. It reduces instructional time, is all I need to know. There's nothing "innovative" about it. You're naive.

And let me guess that you yourself were adamantly opposed to bringing kids back in November, while pushing your silly vision of "outdoor school" instead. you're part of the problem.

Wrong. I always prioritized getting kids back in school and only proposed outdoor school as an option when it became clear that the teachers and the administration were too far apart to make in person instruction likely in the fall. But your response demonstrates why it's impossible to get anything productive done in DCPS. You hate everyone, you assume everyone is stupid and irredeemable, you dismiss any new idea as wrong and bad, you are convinced of your own righteousness and unwilling to even listen another point of view. You are not merely a part of the problem. You, and people like you (including many teachers, administrators, and people in Central) Are. The. Problem.

There is no willingness to problem solve in DCPS. Just infighting and viciousness. I am so tired of it. Our kids suffer because of it.

I mean yes, at this point, I am going to assume that nobody looks out for the interests of kids unless they are pushing getting kids back into school to the max. You seem to be afraid of confrontation. If you can't understand why many parents are completely appalled that this is even being floated, at a point when DCPS is being coy about what "5 days a week in person" even means, then you don't really have any understanding of the actual dynamics here.

Afraid of confrontation? Because I don't agree with you?

I understand all the dynamics here. I just don't agree with you. I get that you are appalled. You've made that clear. I think you need to recalibrate what you consider appalling.

I think most people who are responding angrily to this (rumored) proposal are simply afraid that they will have to pick their kids up early on Wednesdays. I think if a proposal was floated that provided some form of programming for kids during the teacher's PD time, but made it optional, you'd see the majority of parents open to the idea. Most parents understand that sitting at a desk "to the max" is not necessarily beneficial to kids. A lot of parents worry about info overload and whether their kids are really absorbing material, and studies have shown that regular breaks from study actually increase info uptake. There are families with SAHPs who would probably appreciate the chance to do other activities with their kids on Wednesdays, and there are also plenty of working parents who could see the benefit of setting aside time for remedial acceleration for kids who need it (helping kids catch up actually benefits all kids because it improves the classroom experience for kids who are at grade level as well). You assume the only way to care about kids or education is the way you do it, and you are wrong about that.

+1 wish I could’ve said this as eloquently as you.

[Anonymous]

OMG. Honestly at this point, if you don't understand why parents are p*ssed at the idea of having to pick their kids up early on Wednesdays, you're not even trying to grasp the situation. And miss me with what "studies have shown." Studies have shown that being out of school has been a disaster, and any steps by DCPS to cater to teachers even more is just really not going to fly.

Of course parents would and should be upset if they suddenly had to pick up their kids early on Wednesdays (well, most -- as with anything, I am sure there are some who like it, depends on your family arrangement). But I don't think that's what is being discussed. Sounds like kids would be in school but supervised by a non-teacher, potentially in programming but also possibly not. It sounds like there are lots of ways to do this and some are an inconvenience to families and some are not and some provide beneficial programming to kids and some do not.

I'll note that if your aftercare program is currently planting kids in front of the TV for hours, then the problem is not a proposal for 2 hours of PD time on Wednesdays but that you have a terrible aftercare program, and likely that should be addressed regardless of the Wednesday schedule.

I also wonder if schools are trying to solve multiple problems at once here, and what people's alternate proposals would be. Seems like the goal here would be:
- Provide planning and PD time to teachers, possibly reducing or eliminating PD days throughout the school year, AND
- Providing necessary remedial acceleration to students who need it (and we all know there are a lot of kids who need it after the past year) at a time that doesn't pull them out of other instructional hours but also does not impose scheduling challenges for families (as early morning or after school acceleration programming can).

Carving out 2 hours on Wednesdays to do both, and dealing with the issue of childcare by simply extending aftercare programs on that day, seems like a reasonable proposal to address these issues. Of course they could just do the PD days as they always have, but those can be very disruptive to family schedules and would not address the issue of providing remedial acceleration to students. You could provide the remedial acceleration outside of school hours, but then you might have low attendance. And you could do it during other school hours, but that means kids who are getting remedial acceleration would potentially be missing specials and other programming that can be particularly beneficial to kids who are struggling in academic subjects.

So what is the answer, if not a shortened school day, one day a week?

[Anonymous]

So the plan is to shorten instruction time in 2021-2022 to make up for shortened instruction time in 2020-2021?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the plan is to shorten instruction time in 2021-2022 to make up for shortened instruction time in 2020-2021?

There are people who like to try and improve and there there are people like PP who think hours = learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the plan is to shorten instruction time in 2021-2022 to make up for shortened instruction time in 2020-2021?

There are people who like to try and improve and there there are people like PP who think hours = learning.

Do you think fewer hours = more learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OMG. Honestly at this point, if you don't understand why parents are p*ssed at the idea of having to pick their kids up early on Wednesdays, you're not even trying to grasp the situation. And miss me with what "studies have shown." Studies have shown that being out of school has been a disaster, and any steps by DCPS to cater to teachers even more is just really not going to fly.

Of course parents would and should be upset if they suddenly had to pick up their kids early on Wednesdays (well, most -- as with anything, I am sure there are some who like it, depends on your family arrangement). But I don't think that's what is being discussed. Sounds like kids would be in school but supervised by a non-teacher, potentially in programming but also possibly not. It sounds like there are lots of ways to do this and some are an inconvenience to families and some are not and some provide beneficial programming to kids and some do not.

I'll note that if your aftercare program is currently planting kids in front of the TV for hours, then the problem is not a proposal for 2 hours of PD time on Wednesdays but that you have a terrible aftercare program, and likely that should be addressed regardless of the Wednesday schedule.

I also wonder if schools are trying to solve multiple problems at once here, and what people's alternate proposals would be. Seems like the goal here would be:
- Provide planning and PD time to teachers, possibly reducing or eliminating PD days throughout the school year, AND
- Providing necessary remedial acceleration to students who need it (and we all know there are a lot of kids who need it after the past year) at a time that doesn't pull them out of other instructional hours but also does not impose scheduling challenges for families (as early morning or after school acceleration programming can).

Carving out 2 hours on Wednesdays to do both, and dealing with the issue of childcare by simply extending aftercare programs on that day, seems like a reasonable proposal to address these issues. Of course they could just do the PD days as they always have, but those can be very disruptive to family schedules and would not address the issue of providing remedial acceleration to students. You could provide the remedial acceleration outside of school hours, but then you might have low attendance. And you could do it during other school hours, but that means kids who are getting remedial acceleration would potentially be missing specials and other programming that can be particularly beneficial to kids who are struggling in academic subjects.

So what is the answer, if not a shortened school day, one day a week?

tl;dr. nobody should be wasting time on this. I truly think you don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the plan is to shorten instruction time in 2021-2022 to make up for shortened instruction time in 2020-2021?

There are people who like to try and improve and there there are people like PP who think hours = learning.

Do you think fewer hours = more learning?

Sadly I think they do. They also believe that open schools would have been charnel fields all year, that it's racist to say that school closures hurt black kids, and it's ALSO racist to discuss or even care about learning loss. We're all supposed to plug our ears and go "la la la" and talk about "accelerating" kids instead ... which of course is going to be achieved by paying $$ for "outside partners" (read: computer apps) and reducing instructional time. Or something like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OMG. Honestly at this point, if you don't understand why parents are p*ssed at the idea of having to pick their kids up early on Wednesdays, you're not even trying to grasp the situation. And miss me with what "studies have shown." Studies have shown that being out of school has been a disaster, and any steps by DCPS to cater to teachers even more is just really not going to fly.

Of course parents would and should be upset if they suddenly had to pick up their kids early on Wednesdays (well, most -- as with anything, I am sure there are some who like it, depends on your family arrangement). But I don't think that's what is being discussed. Sounds like kids would be in school but supervised by a non-teacher, potentially in programming but also possibly not. It sounds like there are lots of ways to do this and some are an inconvenience to families and some are not and some provide beneficial programming to kids and some do not.

I'll note that if your aftercare program is currently planting kids in front of the TV for hours, then the problem is not a proposal for 2 hours of PD time on Wednesdays but that you have a terrible aftercare program, and likely that should be addressed regardless of the Wednesday schedule.

I also wonder if schools are trying to solve multiple problems at once here, and what people's alternate proposals would be. Seems like the goal here would be:
- Provide planning and PD time to teachers, possibly reducing or eliminating PD days throughout the school year, AND
- Providing necessary remedial acceleration to students who need it (and we all know there are a lot of kids who need it after the past year) at a time that doesn't pull them out of other instructional hours but also does not impose scheduling challenges for families (as early morning or after school acceleration programming can).

Carving out 2 hours on Wednesdays to do both, and dealing with the issue of childcare by simply extending aftercare programs on that day, seems like a reasonable proposal to address these issues. Of course they could just do the PD days as they always have, but those can be very disruptive to family schedules and would not address the issue of providing remedial acceleration to students. You could provide the remedial acceleration outside of school hours, but then you might have low attendance. And you could do it during other school hours, but that means kids who are getting remedial acceleration would potentially be missing specials and other programming that can be particularly beneficial to kids who are struggling in academic subjects.

So what is the answer, if not a shortened school day, one day a week?

tl;dr. nobody should be wasting time on this. I truly think you don't get it.

Agree. Education policy is stupid, no one should ever spend time writing or reading 5 paragraphs on it. Just throw kids in classrooms for the maximum amount of time allowable for the maximum number of days a year, problem solved, who cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the plan is to shorten instruction time in 2021-2022 to make up for shortened instruction time in 2020-2021?

There are people who like to try and improve and there there are people like PP who think hours = learning.

Do you think fewer hours = more learning?

I do think there are things that teachers can do in those hours to make the learning experience much better for children. I think that with the right people in charge two hours of different programming can be better for students than the same routine they experience the other 4.5 days.

We can all agree (I hope) that education is not perfect and pre Covid systems worked for a select few. Giving breathing room and allowing teachers to evolve and improve on their work on a weekly basis rather than quarterly PDs seems like a plus all around to me.

So yes, fewer hours can mean more and BETTER learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OMG. Honestly at this point, if you don't understand why parents are p*ssed at the idea of having to pick their kids up early on Wednesdays, you're not even trying to grasp the situation. And miss me with what "studies have shown." Studies have shown that being out of school has been a disaster, and any steps by DCPS to cater to teachers even more is just really not going to fly.

Of course parents would and should be upset if they suddenly had to pick up their kids early on Wednesdays (well, most -- as with anything, I am sure there are some who like it, depends on your family arrangement). But I don't think that's what is being discussed. Sounds like kids would be in school but supervised by a non-teacher, potentially in programming but also possibly not. It sounds like there are lots of ways to do this and some are an inconvenience to families and some are not and some provide beneficial programming to kids and some do not.

I'll note that if your aftercare program is currently planting kids in front of the TV for hours, then the problem is not a proposal for 2 hours of PD time on Wednesdays but that you have a terrible aftercare program, and likely that should be addressed regardless of the Wednesday schedule.

I also wonder if schools are trying to solve multiple problems at once here, and what people's alternate proposals would be. Seems like the goal here would be:
- Provide planning and PD time to teachers, possibly reducing or eliminating PD days throughout the school year, AND
- Providing necessary remedial acceleration to students who need it (and we all know there are a lot of kids who need it after the past year) at a time that doesn't pull them out of other instructional hours but also does not impose scheduling challenges for families (as early morning or after school acceleration programming can).

Carving out 2 hours on Wednesdays to do both, and dealing with the issue of childcare by simply extending aftercare programs on that day, seems like a reasonable proposal to address these issues. Of course they could just do the PD days as they always have, but those can be very disruptive to family schedules and would not address the issue of providing remedial acceleration to students. You could provide the remedial acceleration outside of school hours, but then you might have low attendance. And you could do it during other school hours, but that means kids who are getting remedial acceleration would potentially be missing specials and other programming that can be particularly beneficial to kids who are struggling in academic subjects.

So what is the answer, if not a shortened school day, one day a week?

tl;dr. nobody should be wasting time on this. I truly think you don't get it.

Agree. Education policy is stupid, no one should ever spend time writing or reading 5 paragraphs on it. Just throw kids in classrooms for the maximum amount of time allowable for the maximum number of days a year, problem solved, who cares.

Are you under the impression that this DCUM poster randomly going on about her whimsical ideas is engaged in "educational policy"? I'm not an educational policy expert, but I can tell you for sure the notion that we need LESS instructional time and MORE instability in weekly school schedules is f'in crazy at this particular juncture.