Projected Overcrowding in High School APSVA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems that on April 26 there will be a "Committee of the Whole on the Career Center" so I imagine there might be some discussion of interest:

https://www.apsva.us/school-board-meetings/school-board-work-sessions-meetings/

What does that even mean? I was part of the last workgroup and haven't heard a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s time for a new high school. At least acquire the land already!

With what money? We should have taken VHC property on Carlin Springs, but AH won that right?

Didn’t get the VHC property on Carlin Springs. Didn’t get the Rouse property near Seven Corners.
APS high school is f*cked.

I thought the VHC property was a bus/vehicle depot for now but that a future school use hadn't been ruled out. Has that changed?

They need to make Kenmore a high school because it has the most land. Build a new middle school at VHC (could have been Lubber Run).

But it won't happen. There was a petition about 5 years ago to make Kenmore a HS and the petition got over 1,000 signatures in less than 48 hours. But APS opted for the Career Center plan instead, which is now a bust. Nothing will happen except more kicking the can down the road with the pandemic as the perfect new excuse for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s time for a new high school. At least acquire the land already!

With what money? We should have taken VHC property on Carlin Springs, but AH won that right?

Didn’t get the VHC property on Carlin Springs. Didn’t get the Rouse property near Seven Corners.
APS high school is f*cked.

I thought the VHC property was a bus/vehicle depot for now but that a future school use hadn't been ruled out. Has that changed?

They need to make Kenmore a high school because it has the most land. Build a new middle school at VHC (could have been Lubber Run).

But it won't happen. There was a petition about 5 years ago to make Kenmore a HS and the petition got over 1,000 signatures in less than 48 hours. But APS opted for the Career Center plan instead, which is now a bust. Nothing will happen except more kicking the can down the road with the pandemic as the perfect new excuse for that.

They need to start looking at other options. I would be into an advocacy group for that. If we don’t do something, our kids will be going to mega- high schools like T.C.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope some who left for private don't come back. My kid is entering HS next year and was in an overcrowded ES and MS. The opening of Hamm still left the MS overcrowded b/c they didn't put enough kids in Hamm. Now, with HS on the horizon, the plans for more space won't impact my kid until almost the end. We are even contemplating not taking the IB spot b/c of the overcrowding at WL.

It is pretty crowded, and I don't think they handle it well. Some people love it, but we found it chaotic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile HB Woodlawn has seen zero growth since moving to the new building. They still plan for just around 80 kids per MS grade and around 115 per HS grade. The lottery only accepted 75 6th graders and 26 9th graders (bringing the total 9th grade class next year to just 107 since they currently have 81 8th graders and I’m sure at least one or two will decide to move to another school). They really need to increase their enrollment to 100 per MS grade as promised when plans for them to move to the new building were being discussed. HS grades should each be at 125 at a minimum. They would still be a small program with these numbers.

HB is a perfect example of APS's fraud, waste and abuse of tax payer dollars.

Just stop it. All those kids would be back in the three comprehensive high schools if HB was still on Vacation Lane (where they wanted to stay) and that building was a neighborhood middle school, as originally proposed when they decided not to sell the land. And building it taller to hold more kids would have been cost-prohibitive. There are no fields.

If you have somewhere to put 900 middle and high schoolers, by all means, let us know where to build that school.

The fraud part is that it has shifted from being a program with a strong personality (right for some kids, not others, somewhat self selected) into being the golden ticket to escape the crowding. I didn't mine HB when the other kids weren't getting short shrift.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope some who left for private don't come back. My kid is entering HS next year and was in an overcrowded ES and MS. The opening of Hamm still left the MS overcrowded b/c they didn't put enough kids in Hamm. Now, with HS on the horizon, the plans for more space won't impact my kid until almost the end. We are even contemplating not taking the IB spot b/c of the overcrowding at WL.

It is pretty crowded, and I don't think they handle it well. Some people love it, but we found it chaotic

We put our kids in private for HS. We have a current 7th grader too that would be WL—but don’t want that # once we saw how great private HS has been for our older kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile HB Woodlawn has seen zero growth since moving to the new building. They still plan for just around 80 kids per MS grade and around 115 per HS grade. The lottery only accepted 75 6th graders and 26 9th graders (bringing the total 9th grade class next year to just 107 since they currently have 81 8th graders and I’m sure at least one or two will decide to move to another school). They really need to increase their enrollment to 100 per MS grade as promised when plans for them to move to the new building were being discussed. HS grades should each be at 125 at a minimum. They would still be a small program with these numbers.

HB is a perfect example of APS's fraud, waste and abuse of tax payer dollars.

Just stop it. All those kids would be back in the three comprehensive high schools if HB was still on Vacation Lane (where they wanted to stay) and that building was a neighborhood middle school, as originally proposed when they decided not to sell the land. And building it taller to hold more kids would have been cost-prohibitive. There are no fields.

If you have somewhere to put 900 middle and high schoolers, by all means, let us know where to build that school.

The fraud part is that it has shifted from being a program with a strong personality (right for some kids, not others, somewhat self selected) into being the golden ticket to escape the crowding. I didn't mine HB when the other kids weren't getting short shrift.

PP is also ignoring that HB was resource hoarding: the only option they recognize is retaining of the largest plots of land in APS portfolio OR a marquee $100M building.

They should have bought an existing office building and repurposed it for HB, and then had money left over for the 4th high school.

Also; HB refusal to increase the size of the program is criminal when all other schools are crushed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile HB Woodlawn has seen zero growth since moving to the new building. They still plan for just around 80 kids per MS grade and around 115 per HS grade. The lottery only accepted 75 6th graders and 26 9th graders (bringing the total 9th grade class next year to just 107 since they currently have 81 8th graders and I’m sure at least one or two will decide to move to another school). They really need to increase their enrollment to 100 per MS grade as promised when plans for them to move to the new building were being discussed. HS grades should each be at 125 at a minimum. They would still be a small program with these numbers.

HB is a perfect example of APS's fraud, waste and abuse of tax payer dollars.

Just stop it. All those kids would be back in the three comprehensive high schools if HB was still on Vacation Lane (where they wanted to stay) and that building was a neighborhood middle school, as originally proposed when they decided not to sell the land. And building it taller to hold more kids would have been cost-prohibitive. There are no fields.

If you have somewhere to put 900 middle and high schoolers, by all means, let us know where to build that school.

The fraud part is that it has shifted from being a program with a strong personality (right for some kids, not others, somewhat self selected) into being the golden ticket to escape the crowding. I didn't mine HB when the other kids weren't getting short shrift.

PP is also ignoring that HB was resource hoarding: the only option they recognize is retaining of the largest plots of land in APS portfolio OR a marquee $100M building.

They should have bought an existing office building and repurposed it for HB, and then had money left over for the 4th high school.

Also; HB refusal to increase the size of the program is criminal when all other schools are crushed.

There is nowhere in Arlington that APS could buy a building and renovate it for less money than it cost to build the building at Wilson, just as it was impractical to rent or do any of the other things that have been discussed. The best option, cost- and capacity-wise, was for H-B to stay at Vacation Lane and a new middle school be built in Rosslyn, but there was a ton of pushback to having that many students/buses in Rosslyn and having a middle school with no fields.

Arlington is obsessed with staying under the debt limit and had numerous capital projects underway, not just several schools but also things like the new aquatic center. They were looking for any option that would give them the most seats for the least money. I don't know why people are still beating this dead, rotting, horse corpse but for the love of God let it go.

Finally, have you been in that building? Inside, the walls, floors, and ceilings are all unfinished concrete. It may look fancy in the architectural drawings, with its levels and terraces, but inside it is a regular old high school. With a ton of stairs and long corridors. Lots of rooms are underground. And it is freaking loud, because it is all hard surfaces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile HB Woodlawn has seen zero growth since moving to the new building. They still plan for just around 80 kids per MS grade and around 115 per HS grade. The lottery only accepted 75 6th graders and 26 9th graders (bringing the total 9th grade class next year to just 107 since they currently have 81 8th graders and I’m sure at least one or two will decide to move to another school). They really need to increase their enrollment to 100 per MS grade as promised when plans for them to move to the new building were being discussed. HS grades should each be at 125 at a minimum. They would still be a small program with these numbers.

HB is a perfect example of APS's fraud, waste and abuse of tax payer dollars.

Just stop it. All those kids would be back in the three comprehensive high schools if HB was still on Vacation Lane (where they wanted to stay) and that building was a neighborhood middle school, as originally proposed when they decided not to sell the land. And building it taller to hold more kids would have been cost-prohibitive. There are no fields.

If you have somewhere to put 900 middle and high schoolers, by all means, let us know where to build that school.

The fraud part is that it has shifted from being a program with a strong personality (right for some kids, not others, somewhat self selected) into being the golden ticket to escape the crowding. I didn't mine HB when the other kids weren't getting short shrift.

HB is not a person or entity with any power. All decisions affecting HB are made by the school board. If there is "resource hoarding" what you mean is you don't like how the APS school board is allocating the capital budget among school projects. Direct your complaints to the actual decisionmakers.

PP is also ignoring that HB was resource hoarding: the only option they recognize is retaining of the largest plots of land in APS portfolio OR a marquee $100M building.

They should have bought an existing office building and repurposed it for HB, and then had money left over for the 4th high school.

Also; HB refusal to increase the size of the program is criminal when all other schools are crushed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile HB Woodlawn has seen zero growth since moving to the new building. They still plan for just around 80 kids per MS grade and around 115 per HS grade. The lottery only accepted 75 6th graders and 26 9th graders (bringing the total 9th grade class next year to just 107 since they currently have 81 8th graders and I’m sure at least one or two will decide to move to another school). They really need to increase their enrollment to 100 per MS grade as promised when plans for them to move to the new building were being discussed. HS grades should each be at 125 at a minimum. They would still be a small program with these numbers.

HB is a perfect example of APS's fraud, waste and abuse of tax payer dollars.

Just stop it. All those kids would be back in the three comprehensive high schools if HB was still on Vacation Lane (where they wanted to stay) and that building was a neighborhood middle school, as originally proposed when they decided not to sell the land. And building it taller to hold more kids would have been cost-prohibitive. There are no fields.

If you have somewhere to put 900 middle and high schoolers, by all means, let us know where to build that school.

The fraud part is that it has shifted from being a program with a strong personality (right for some kids, not others, somewhat self selected) into being the golden ticket to escape the crowding. I didn't mine HB when the other kids weren't getting short shrift.

PP is also ignoring that HB was resource hoarding: the only option they recognize is retaining of the largest plots of land in APS portfolio OR a marquee $100M building.

They should have bought an existing office building and repurposed it for HB, and then had money left over for the 4th high school.

Also; HB refusal to increase the size of the program is criminal when all other schools are crushed.

HB is not a person or entity with any power. All decisions affecting HB are made by the school board. If there is "resource hoarding" what you mean is you don't like how the APS school board is allocating the capital budget among school projects. Direct your complaints to the actual decisionmakers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile HB Woodlawn has seen zero growth since moving to the new building. They still plan for just around 80 kids per MS grade and around 115 per HS grade. The lottery only accepted 75 6th graders and 26 9th graders (bringing the total 9th grade class next year to just 107 since they currently have 81 8th graders and I’m sure at least one or two will decide to move to another school). They really need to increase their enrollment to 100 per MS grade as promised when plans for them to move to the new building were being discussed. HS grades should each be at 125 at a minimum. They would still be a small program with these numbers.

HB is a perfect example of APS's fraud, waste and abuse of tax payer dollars.

Just stop it. All those kids would be back in the three comprehensive high schools if HB was still on Vacation Lane (where they wanted to stay) and that building was a neighborhood middle school, as originally proposed when they decided not to sell the land. And building it taller to hold more kids would have been cost-prohibitive. There are no fields.

If you have somewhere to put 900 middle and high schoolers, by all means, let us know where to build that school.

The fraud part is that it has shifted from being a program with a strong personality (right for some kids, not others, somewhat self selected) into being the golden ticket to escape the crowding. I didn't mine HB when the other kids weren't getting short shrift.

PP is also ignoring that HB was resource hoarding: the only option they recognize is retaining of the largest plots of land in APS portfolio OR a marquee $100M building.

They should have bought an existing office building and repurposed it for HB, and then had money left over for the 4th high school.

Also; HB refusal to increase the size of the program is criminal when all other schools are crushed.

There is nowhere in Arlington that APS could buy a building and renovate it for less money than it cost to build the building at Wilson, just as it was impractical to rent or do any of the other things that have been discussed. The best option, cost- and capacity-wise, was for H-B to stay at Vacation Lane and a new middle school be built in Rosslyn, but there was a ton of pushback to having that many students/buses in Rosslyn and having a middle school with no fields.

Arlington is obsessed with staying under the debt limit and had numerous capital projects underway, not just several schools but also things like the new aquatic center. They were looking for any option that would give them the most seats for the least money. I don't know why people are still beating this dead, rotting, horse corpse but for the love of God let it go.

Finally, have you been in that building? Inside, the walls, floors, and ceilings are all unfinished concrete. It may look fancy in the architectural drawings, with its levels and terraces, but inside it is a regular old high school. With a ton of stairs and long corridors. Lots of rooms are underground. And it is freaking loud, because it is all hard surfaces.

Cry me a river.

[Anonymous]

HB is not a person or entity with any power. All decisions affecting HB are made by the school board. If there is "resource hoarding" what you mean is you don't like how the APS school board is allocating the capital budget among school projects. Direct your complaints to the actual decisionmakers.

This is completely false. Every time any mention is made of expanding the program, the HB community is very vocal against expansion. They argue the program only works because it's small, that a larger program would take away the feeling of family they have.

Direct quote from the official HBW FAQ page:

Virtually all of the HBW community see HBW’s size as an integral part of the educational experience, and members feel strongly that increasing HBW enrollment substantially would fundamentally change HBW’s model and jeopardize the school’s success. As the only non-traditional middle and high school in Arlington, HBW provides each student the flexibility to design an educational program that works well for him or her and the opportunity to take additional classes, including independent study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

HB is not a person or entity with any power. All decisions affecting HB are made by the school board. If there is "resource hoarding" what you mean is you don't like how the APS school board is allocating the capital budget among school projects. Direct your complaints to the actual decisionmakers.

This is completely false. Every time any mention is made of expanding the program, the HB community is very vocal against expansion. They argue the program only works because it's small, that a larger program would take away the feeling of family they have.

Direct quote from the official HBW FAQ page:

Virtually all of the HBW community see HBW’s size as an integral part of the educational experience, and members feel strongly that increasing HBW enrollment substantially would fundamentally change HBW’s model and jeopardize the school’s success. As the only non-traditional middle and high school in Arlington, HBW provides each student the flexibility to design an educational program that works well for him or her and the opportunity to take additional classes, including independent study.

PP is right, but yes your point is taken. The HB community, past and present, push back very very hard about growth. There is nothing stopping the Board from increasing its size, a move that could happen with Van Doren gone. Add another 50 kids per grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

HB is not a person or entity with any power. All decisions affecting HB are made by the school board. If there is "resource hoarding" what you mean is you don't like how the APS school board is allocating the capital budget among school projects. Direct your complaints to the actual decisionmakers.

This is completely false. Every time any mention is made of expanding the program, the HB community is very vocal against expansion. They argue the program only works because it's small, that a larger program would take away the feeling of family they have.

Direct quote from the official HBW FAQ page:

Virtually all of the HBW community see HBW’s size as an integral part of the educational experience, and members feel strongly that increasing HBW enrollment substantially would fundamentally change HBW’s model and jeopardize the school’s success. As the only non-traditional middle and high school in Arlington, HBW provides each student the flexibility to design an educational program that works well for him or her and the opportunity to take additional classes, including independent study.

PP is right, but yes your point is taken. The HB community, past and present, push back very very hard about growth. There is nothing stopping the Board from increasing its size, a move that could happen with Van Doren gone. Add another 50 kids per grade.

Oh, the way the north Arlington parents push back against boundary changes that might hurt their property values?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 4yr old, is there any chance this will be sorted out in 10 years??

Nope they are projecting 1000 more students per grade by the time your kid goes to school.

If they haven't gotten around to building the 4th high school, what is the plan?

Night shifts? DL for half your classes? Double decker trailers and lunch at 9am?


https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Fall-2019-28-APS-Enrollment-Report_v12_.pdf

No one wanted to pay for it when we had the chance. I voted yes- we can always go back and add to an existing high school. They’re not making any more land. I would’ve rather had a new high school than that damn aquatic center.

Why is each lower grade so much bigger, I though people stopped having as many babies after Recession?

People stopped moving to Fairfax when they had kids. We will see if changes in commuting trends changes that.

That should be changing in the pandemic, I think the SB is banking on all those condos and townhouses full of families to empty out now that everyone wants a yard.

Ha! The County Board and the School board thought families wouldn't live in those smaller apartments and condos, so they didn't need to figure them into the projections as potential sources for school kids! SURPRISE!