Can we talk about the equality act?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some on this thread who seem to acknowledge that trans women might have a biological edge in sports but it doesn’t matter because it’s not a large number of cis women who will be edged out in sorts.

I would like to know what number of negatively impacted cis women athletes is acceptable to you.

There are cisgender women who have a significant edge over the vast majority of other cisgender women based on their biological make-up. Are you advocating for a dividing line that would exclude them from women's sports? If not, why should a comparably-advantaged trans woman be excluded?

It's not the like there's room for only one woman in each women's sport.

You are REALLY reaching.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we please go back to the topic? The lack of response makes me think a lot of people don’t have enough understanding about this.

Because trans women are women, they should play women’s sports. Basic human rights here. Not much to debate. Sorry not sorry.

How do you know they are women?

That’s the big question. Did Caitlin Jenner only become a transgender woman once other people knew she was one? Or was she a transgender woman even back when she won a gold medal at the Olympics in the decathlon under the name Bruce Jenner? Back then, when she had all of the physical advantages of having the male physiology, would it have been a-okay for her to complete against women? Where do we draw the line?

The existential questions of her identity then aside, high level athletic competitions like Olympics have rules about hormone levels, so the answer is no.

For high school sports, I think it's worth asking what the purpose of the competition is, and whether that changes how we feel about trans athletes. I think the answer there is that high school sports should not be centered around strict competition like that Olympics and should err on the side of encouraging participation without those kinds of requirements.

This is a really key question that doesn’t get enough attention in this discussion. I have two kids who are competitive athletes, and while they both want to be the best athletes they can be, our goal for them is not to win championships. Our goals for them are to learn to be good teammates, to learn to set goals and work hard to achieve them, and to be physically healthy. If all of that also comes with championships, that’s wonderful. But we would be just as proud of them if they were completely average athletes. I would rather have my children be welcoming and supportive to transgender athletes, even if those athletes are better than them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I could care less either way, but it’s humorous to see feminists and cons on the same side for once.

I am a feminist, and I support trans women participating in women’s sports. Not all feminists are TERFs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could care less either way, but it’s humorous to see feminists and cons on the same side for once.

I am a feminist, and I support trans women participating in women’s sports. Not all feminists are TERFs.

And, I'm betting that you were not competing at a high level in sports.

[Anonymous]

I never understood how the "T" got attached to the "LGB". "LGB" are defined by who one partners with -- same sex female, same sex male, or either sex. But "T" says nothing about who one partners with, and really should be a different category. I wish we were debating the LGB equality bill.

(I actually think the transgender bathroom and sports issues to be minor, but I am concerned about the use of hormones or surgery on children and adolescents and who decides whether such treatments should be allowed.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could care less either way, but it’s humorous to see feminists and cons on the same side for once.

I am a feminist, and I support trans women participating in women’s sports. Not all feminists are TERFs.

And, I'm betting that you were not competing at a high level in sports.

Whether that’s the case or not is irrelevant to the comment I was responding to. But what a surprise that bigots can’t address anything on this merits and instead try to find ways of trying to degrade people who think differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never understood how the "T" got attached to the "LGB". "LGB" are defined by who one partners with -- same sex female, same sex male, or either sex. But "T" says nothing about who one partners with, and really should be a different category. I wish we were debating the LGB equality bill.

(I actually think the transgender bathroom and sports issues to be minor, but I am concerned about the use of hormones or surgery on children and adolescents and who decides whether such treatments should be allowed.)

I agree that the issues should not be mixed.

Who someone has sex with in their own home isn't my business as long as it's a consenting adult.

Someone deciding to get an unfair advantage in sports competitions, or creating laws that make it possible for any sicko man to waltz into female bathrooms anytime they feel like it and claim "I identify as a woman, you can't do anything about it" are a completely different thing.

[Anonymous]

What about locker room and public shower? If any man claim they are a woman at a given moment, she can enter a locker room for woman in public or private swim pool and gym, be naked with her penis exposed and stare at naked women, teens, and young girls. Is there any law against a man to watch women or young girls in locker room?

[Anonymous]

Whether that’s the case or not is irrelevant to the comment I was responding to. But what a surprise that bigots can’t address anything on this merits and instead try to find ways of trying to degrade people who think differently.

Look lady. I grew up before Title IX. I don't think you have any idea of what went into getting this for women. Why do you think women's sports are separate from men's sports? Because women are biologically different. They cannot compete at the same level in most sports.
Since you seem unaware of how sports work, here's a little update for you: in high school, many team sports are selective. Not everyone makes the team--boys or girls. But, a transgender girl will have a great advantage on a team that requires speed and strength: soccer, lacrosse, softball, field hockey. That is just a fact. And, some girls will want to play at a college level and may lose the opportunity to get scholarships because of trans girls getting the slots. I saw a young female sprinter interviewed this week. She has a twin brother who is not a sprinter--but can still outrun her.

This is not a matter of bigotry or bathrooms. It is a principle of fairness. And, as stated earlier, women were eliminated from the Olympics for taking testosterone to get a competitive advantage. Trans women have it naturally.

Try using just a little common sense. This Equality Act needs to be rewritten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Whether that’s the case or not is irrelevant to the comment I was responding to. But what a surprise that bigots can’t address anything on this merits and instead try to find ways of trying to degrade people who think differently.

Look lady. I grew up before Title IX. I don't think you have any idea of what went into getting this for women. Why do you think women's sports are separate from men's sports? Because women are biologically different. They cannot compete at the same level in most sports.
Since you seem unaware of how sports work, here's a little update for you: in high school, many team sports are selective. Not everyone makes the team--boys or girls. But, a transgender girl will have a great advantage on a team that requires speed and strength: soccer, lacrosse, softball, field hockey. That is just a fact. And, some girls will want to play at a college level and may lose the opportunity to get scholarships because of trans girls getting the slots. I saw a young female sprinter interviewed this week. She has a twin brother who is not a sprinter--but can still outrun her.

This is not a matter of bigotry or bathrooms. It is a principle of fairness. And, as stated earlier, women were eliminated from the Olympics for taking testosterone to get a competitive advantage. Trans women have it naturally.

Try using just a little common sense. This Equality Act needs to be rewritten.

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about locker room and public shower? If any man claim they are a woman at a given moment, she can enter a locker room for woman in public or private swim pool and gym, be naked with her penis exposed and stare at naked women, teens, and young girls. Is there any law against a man to watch women or young girls in locker room?

Not if gender identity is enshrined as protected by law.

https://kesq.com/news/2019/01/30/girls-encounter-naked-man-at-palm-springs-swim-center/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Whether that’s the case or not is irrelevant to the comment I was responding to. But what a surprise that bigots can’t address anything on this merits and instead try to find ways of trying to degrade people who think differently.

Look lady. I grew up before Title IX. I don't think you have any idea of what went into getting this for women. Why do you think women's sports are separate from men's sports? Because women are biologically different. They cannot compete at the same level in most sports.
Since you seem unaware of how sports work, here's a little update for you: in high school, many team sports are selective. Not everyone makes the team--boys or girls. But, a transgender girl will have a great advantage on a team that requires speed and strength: soccer, lacrosse, softball, field hockey. That is just a fact. And, some girls will want to play at a college level and may lose the opportunity to get scholarships because of trans girls getting the slots. I saw a young female sprinter interviewed this week. She has a twin brother who is not a sprinter--but can still outrun her.

This is not a matter of bigotry or bathrooms. It is a principle of fairness. And, as stated earlier, women were eliminated from the Olympics for taking testosterone to get a competitive advantage. Trans women have it naturally.

Try using just a little common sense. This Equality Act needs to be rewritten.

How about you try making your point without the insults and baseless assumptions to bolster it? You can do it, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about locker room and public shower? If any man claim they are a woman at a given moment, she can enter a locker room for woman in public or private swim pool and gym, be naked with her penis exposed and stare at naked women, teens, and young girls. Is there any law against a man to watch women or young girls in locker room?

If you want to go down that road, then perhaps we need to reconsider the antiquated notion of sex-segregated locker rooms and bathrooms. Why do we need segregated facilities? I’ve seen penises before, they’re not inherently scary or offensive to me. Is it that someone in the locker room could be eyeing me with sexual interest? A gay or bi woman could do that too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about locker room and public shower? If any man claim they are a woman at a given moment, she can enter a locker room for woman in public or private swim pool and gym, be naked with her penis exposed and stare at naked women, teens, and young girls. Is there any law against a man to watch women or young girls in locker room?

If you want to go down that road, then perhaps we need to reconsider the antiquated notion of sex-segregated locker rooms and bathrooms. Why do we need segregated facilities? I’ve seen penises before, they’re not inherently scary or offensive to me. Is it that someone in the locker room could be eyeing me with sexual interest? A gay or bi woman could do that too.

If you bring your 10 years old girl to a swimming pool, will you be comfortable to have her being stared by a man with exposed penis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about locker room and public shower? If any man claim they are a woman at a given moment, she can enter a locker room for woman in public or private swim pool and gym, be naked with her penis exposed and stare at naked women, teens, and young girls. Is there any law against a man to watch women or young girls in locker room?

If you want to go down that road, then perhaps we need to reconsider the antiquated notion of sex-segregated locker rooms and bathrooms. Why do we need segregated facilities? I’ve seen penises before, they’re not inherently scary or offensive to me. Is it that someone in the locker room could be eyeing me with sexual interest? A gay or bi woman could do that too.

If you bring your 10 years old girl to a swimming pool, will you be comfortable to have her being stared by a man with exposed penis?

Why would I be any less concerned about her being stared at by a woman with an exposed vulva? And should I not be concerned about my 10 yo son being started at by a man with an exposed penis? Perhaps the answer is to get rid of communal locker rooms entirely and just have single user and family changing stalls. Then the whole issue goes away for everyone, trans people included.