Elite universities, Ivy Plus/Equivalents...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I chose to attend one of the schools on OP’s list (not MIT or Stanford) over two Ivies, Dartmouth and Penn, and knew more than just several at my alma mater who had chosen similarly.

The Ivies derive their prestige from their association with Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. All of the other top schools outside of HYP are peer institutions and generally equal in prestige. As others have noted, Stanford and MIT easily match HYP.

THANK YOU!! Cornell or Brown are not more prestigious than say Georgetown. It's HYPSM then the other top 25 schools. Then the rest.

Georgetown is a questionable choice to make your point. I don't view Georgetown as that prestigious and its prestige (even if not equal to Cornell or Brown) outstrips its current quality given tremendous budget issues and an endowment that is dwarfed by most schools it likes to consider as peers.

That doesn’t mean it can’t be the best choice for some kids.

I got into Georgetown SFS early and, even though I was competitive for Ivies, did not apply to any. Why? Because I wanted a career in the USG. No school is better for that than SFS. I went there, graduated in the top 9% of my class, and developed connections that got me my dream job, which I still have and love.

My point is that schools you might not consider prestigious can provide the perfect path for certain people.

Oh and I’ll add: at my fed agency—which is extremely competitive to get hired at—we have a ton of people from Georgetown, many from Michigan and Northwestern, and a handful from HYP. After that it’s universities you’d all look down your nose at. I don’t know a single person there who went to Cornell or Brown.

If you acknowledge that your agency is filled mostly with people who went to not particularly prestigious schools, I'm not sure why the supposed lack of people from Cornell or Brown would serve as an indictment of those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I chose to attend one of the schools on OP’s list (not MIT or Stanford) over two Ivies, Dartmouth and Penn, and knew more than just several at my alma mater who had chosen similarly.

The Ivies derive their prestige from their association with Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. All of the other top schools outside of HYP are peer institutions and generally equal in prestige. As others have noted, Stanford and MIT easily match HYP.

THANK YOU!! Cornell or Brown are not more prestigious than say Georgetown. It's HYPSM then the other top 25 schools. Then the rest.

Georgetown is a questionable choice to make your point. I don't view Georgetown as that prestigious and its prestige (even if not equal to Cornell or Brown) outstrips its current quality given tremendous budget issues and an endowment that is dwarfed by most schools it likes to consider as peers.

That doesn’t mean it can’t be the best choice for some kids.

I got into Georgetown SFS early and, even though I was competitive for Ivies, did not apply to any. Why? Because I wanted a career in the USG. No school is better for that than SFS. I went there, graduated in the top 9% of my class, and developed connections that got me my dream job, which I still have and love.

My point is that schools you might not consider prestigious can provide the perfect path for certain people.

Oh and I’ll add: at my fed agency—which is extremely competitive to get hired at—we have a ton of people from Georgetown, many from Michigan and Northwestern, and a handful from HYP. After that it’s universities you’d all look down your nose at. I don’t know a single person there who went to Cornell or Brown.

If you acknowledge that your agency is filled mostly with people who went to not particularly prestigious schools, I'm not sure why the supposed lack of people from Cornell or Brown would serve as an indictment of those schools.

Huh? That’s the opposite of what I said. The most common colleges are Georgetown SFS, HYP, Michigan, and Northwestern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I chose to attend one of the schools on OP’s list (not MIT or Stanford) over two Ivies, Dartmouth and Penn, and knew more than just several at my alma mater who had chosen similarly.

The Ivies derive their prestige from their association with Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. All of the other top schools outside of HYP are peer institutions and generally equal in prestige. As others have noted, Stanford and MIT easily match HYP.

THANK YOU!! Cornell or Brown are not more prestigious than say Georgetown. It's HYPSM then the other top 25 schools. Then the rest.

Georgetown is a questionable choice to make your point. I don't view Georgetown as that prestigious and its prestige (even if not equal to Cornell or Brown) outstrips its current quality given tremendous budget issues and an endowment that is dwarfed by most schools it likes to consider as peers.

That doesn’t mean it can’t be the best choice for some kids.

I got into Georgetown SFS early and, even though I was competitive for Ivies, did not apply to any. Why? Because I wanted a career in the USG. No school is better for that than SFS. I went there, graduated in the top 9% of my class, and developed connections that got me my dream job, which I still have and love.

My point is that schools you might not consider prestigious can provide the perfect path for certain people.

And no one disputes that, but that's also really a separate question.

In terms of your motives, you probably were also somewhat hedging your bets. A ton of people are "competitive for Ivies," but it is very much a crapshoot. The odds may very well have been against you for the top-tier of the Ivies that are more clearly more prestigious than Georgetown.

So, under the circumstances, it would be completely rational for you (or anyone else) to choose a school like Georgetown early in an effort to increase your chance at admission.

Nah, I went to a top prep school and graduated with honors. I absolutely was competitive for Ivies. I knew what I wanted.

Reading comprehension isn't your strength. I didn't question that you were competitive for Ivies. That doesn't change my analysis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I chose to attend one of the schools on OP’s list (not MIT or Stanford) over two Ivies, Dartmouth and Penn, and knew more than just several at my alma mater who had chosen similarly.

The Ivies derive their prestige from their association with Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. All of the other top schools outside of HYP are peer institutions and generally equal in prestige. As others have noted, Stanford and MIT easily match HYP.

THANK YOU!! Cornell or Brown are not more prestigious than say Georgetown. It's HYPSM then the other top 25 schools. Then the rest.

Georgetown is a questionable choice to make your point. I don't view Georgetown as that prestigious and its prestige (even if not equal to Cornell or Brown) outstrips its current quality given tremendous budget issues and an endowment that is dwarfed by most schools it likes to consider as peers.

That doesn’t mean it can’t be the best choice for some kids.

I got into Georgetown SFS early and, even though I was competitive for Ivies, did not apply to any. Why? Because I wanted a career in the USG. No school is better for that than SFS. I went there, graduated in the top 9% of my class, and developed connections that got me my dream job, which I still have and love.

My point is that schools you might not consider prestigious can provide the perfect path for certain people.

And no one disputes that, but that's also really a separate question.

In terms of your motives, you probably were also somewhat hedging your bets. A ton of people are "competitive for Ivies," but it is very much a crapshoot. The odds may very well have been against you for the top-tier of the Ivies that are more clearly more prestigious than Georgetown.

So, under the circumstances, it would be completely rational for you (or anyone else) to choose a school like Georgetown early in an effort to increase your chance at admission.

Nah, I went to a top prep school and graduated with honors. I absolutely was competitive for Ivies. I knew what I wanted.

Reading comprehension isn't your strength. I didn't question that you were competitive for Ivies. That doesn't change my analysis.

You absolutely questioned it. That’s fine. Par for the course on here.

[Anonymous]

To clarify: I wasn’t hedging my bets. The Ivy League is not what I wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To clarify: I wasn’t hedging my bets. The Ivy League is not what I wanted.

We understand. It is just hard to believe that a desire to work for the USG (the Hill is slightly more credible) led you to forgo Ivies without factoring in some of the other factors mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can I be the person who asks how Duke made it onto OP’s list?

I’d leave Duke but I was side-eying Northwestern. Only to tiger moms who obsess over US news is Northwestern undergrad in any way that impressive.

What? I don’t know a single soul who wouldn’t consider Duke or Northwestern prestigious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To clarify: I wasn’t hedging my bets. The Ivy League is not what I wanted.

We understand. It is just hard to believe that a desire to work for the USG (the Hill is slightly more credible) led you to forgo Ivies without factoring in some of the other factors mentioned.

Well, perhaps you need to expand your conception of what factors people might take into account.

Georgetown SFS provided me pretty much perfect preparation for my career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I chose to attend one of the schools on OP’s list (not MIT or Stanford) over two Ivies, Dartmouth and Penn, and knew more than just several at my alma mater who had chosen similarly.

The Ivies derive their prestige from their association with Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. All of the other top schools outside of HYP are peer institutions and generally equal in prestige. As others have noted, Stanford and MIT easily match HYP.

THANK YOU!! Cornell or Brown are not more prestigious than say Georgetown. It's HYPSM then the other top 25 schools. Then the rest.

Georgetown is a questionable choice to make your point. I don't view Georgetown as that prestigious and its prestige (even if not equal to Cornell or Brown) outstrips its current quality given tremendous budget issues and an endowment that is dwarfed by most schools it likes to consider as peers.

That doesn’t mean it can’t be the best choice for some kids.

I got into Georgetown SFS early and, even though I was competitive for Ivies, did not apply to any. Why? Because I wanted a career in the USG. No school is better for that than SFS. I went there, graduated in the top 9% of my class, and developed connections that got me my dream job, which I still have and love.

My point is that schools you might not consider prestigious can provide the perfect path for certain people.

And no one disputes that, but that's also really a separate question.

In terms of your motives, you probably were also somewhat hedging your bets. A ton of people are "competitive for Ivies," but it is very much a crapshoot. The odds may very well have been against you for the top-tier of the Ivies that are more clearly more prestigious than Georgetown.

So, under the circumstances, it would be completely rational for you (or anyone else) to choose a school like Georgetown early in an effort to increase your chance at admission.

Nah, I went to a top prep school and graduated with honors. I absolutely was competitive for Ivies. I knew what I wanted.

Reading comprehension isn't your strength. I didn't question that you were competitive for Ivies. That doesn't change my analysis.

You absolutely questioned it. That’s fine. Par for the course on here.

Saying the odds may have been against you for the top tier of the Ivies (essentially HYP) isn't saying that you aren't competitive. Those schools have extremely low acceptance rates, around 5%. Lots of people are competitive applicants that do not get in. My guess is of the 95% rejected, the vast majority of those were competitive applicants.

As for the other Ivies, I said it was a "crapshoot." I'm not exactly how you quantify that, but its probably at least a 25%. Since even Cornell only accepts about 10% of applicants, I was giving you at least as good of odds as the average applicant.

Therefore, I clearly accepted that you were a competitive applicant. But, I recognized that most competitive applicants don't get in because the limited number of spots. I gave you credit that you too would have recognized (maybe a mistake I am learning) that, even as a competitive applicant, the odds were against and you might have chosen to hedge your bets going early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I chose to attend one of the schools on OP’s list (not MIT or Stanford) over two Ivies, Dartmouth and Penn, and knew more than just several at my alma mater who had chosen similarly.

The Ivies derive their prestige from their association with Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. All of the other top schools outside of HYP are peer institutions and generally equal in prestige. As others have noted, Stanford and MIT easily match HYP.

THANK YOU!! Cornell or Brown are not more prestigious than say Georgetown. It's HYPSM then the other top 25 schools. Then the rest.

Georgetown is a questionable choice to make your point. I don't view Georgetown as that prestigious and its prestige (even if not equal to Cornell or Brown) outstrips its current quality given tremendous budget issues and an endowment that is dwarfed by most schools it likes to consider as peers.

That doesn’t mean it can’t be the best choice for some kids.

I got into Georgetown SFS early and, even though I was competitive for Ivies, did not apply to any. Why? Because I wanted a career in the USG. No school is better for that than SFS. I went there, graduated in the top 9% of my class, and developed connections that got me my dream job, which I still have and love.

My point is that schools you might not consider prestigious can provide the perfect path for certain people.

And no one disputes that, but that's also really a separate question.

In terms of your motives, you probably were also somewhat hedging your bets. A ton of people are "competitive for Ivies," but it is very much a crapshoot. The odds may very well have been against you for the top-tier of the Ivies that are more clearly more prestigious than Georgetown.

So, under the circumstances, it would be completely rational for you (or anyone else) to choose a school like Georgetown early in an effort to increase your chance at admission.

Nah, I went to a top prep school and graduated with honors. I absolutely was competitive for Ivies. I knew what I wanted.

Reading comprehension isn't your strength. I didn't question that you were competitive for Ivies. That doesn't change my analysis.

You absolutely questioned it. That’s fine. Par for the course on here.

Saying the odds may have been against you for the top tier of the Ivies (essentially HYP) isn't saying that you aren't competitive. Those schools have extremely low acceptance rates, around 5%. Lots of people are competitive applicants that do not get in. My guess is of the 95% rejected, the vast majority of those were competitive applicants.

As for the other Ivies, I said it was a "crapshoot." I'm not exactly how you quantify that, but its probably at least a 25%. Since even Cornell only accepts about 10% of applicants, I was giving you at least as good of odds as the average applicant.

Therefore, I clearly accepted that you were a competitive applicant. But, I recognized that most competitive applicants don't get in because the limited number of spots. I gave you credit that you too would have recognized (maybe a mistake I am learning) that, even as a competitive applicant, the odds were against and you might have chosen to hedge your bets going early.

Ok. I’m telling you that’s not what I did. I knew plenty of kids who had gone to Ivies. That worked for them. It wasn’t what I wanted.

[Anonymous]

It’s easier to get into schools early than regular. If someone wants to maximize their chances at an Ivy, they should be applying early, not waiting for RD.

[Anonymous]

I’m gonna guess the people in this thread who are looking down their nose on some of the schools on this list went to one of the forgettable Ivies, like Dartmouth, which is literally only relevant because they’ve hitched their wagon to Harvard and Yale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m gonna guess the people in this thread who are looking down their nose on some of the schools on this list went to one of the forgettable Ivies, like Dartmouth, which is literally only relevant because they’ve hitched their wagon to Harvard and Yale.

Honestly, my guess is they went to schools that are a million times worse than any Ivy or anything in the top 50.

Those are the people most hung up on this crap. The rest of us just don’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“HYPSM” is just as contrived a concept as the list of schools in OP, which are also widely considered equivalents to the Ivy League schools, so it’s a moot point.

HYP, the big three has been around for centuries. The addition of MIT and Stanford happened naturally. It is widely known. The grouping by OP does not exist anywhere else except in OP's head. It serves no meaningful purpose. Lay people know MIT and Stanford are just as prestigious as HYP. But they don't view Hopkins or Northwestern is in the same league as OP made it out to be.

OP likely did not attend MIT, Stanford or any Ivy League school and has a chip on his/her shoulder.

These assumptions do not live anywhere else except in your head.

HYPMS is a well known grouping discussed by HS seniors, parents and college consultants. MIT and Stanford don't need to be arbitrarily grouped with other schools to make your list (not seen anywhere else) seem legit as they already are in their own league, the T5. It's just an educated guess that you didn't attend HYPMS or any other Ivy League schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC did not apply to any Ivies, though encouraged to do so by the college counselor. The reasoning was that she didn’t want to be pre-judged by where she went to school. People have associations in their minds as well as stereotypes of elitists. Haaaahvahd in a snooty accent is what people think. The connections could help within that elitist group, but that’s not where she wants to be. The constant competition and need to prove one’s self at Ivies seems toxic.

Said with all the insight of someone on the outside looking in. The atmosphere at most Ivies is far less competitive than at some of the other schools mentioned in this thread.

In any event, being encouraged to apply to an Ivy and getting into one are two different things.

Never said that I thought she could get in. Clearly we are outsiders to the Ivy world, along with 99% of the country and that’s fine with us. Having toured a few Ivies pre-Covid, none of the tours ever said it was not competitive. Quite the opposite, as some of the tour guides listed off the accomplishments of their roommates and friends and talked about the pressure they were under. All the schools at the top are competitive, but we saw a lot of ugly behavior in high school with people stepping on each other to get a leg up in the race to Ivies and want another environment.

That may say more about your secondary school than it does about the Ivies. You seem to be conflating selectivity and accomplishments with a cut-throat environment at the schools. At many of the Ivies, getting in is the hardest part, but the environment for students at the schools is quite collegial.