NVSC Pushing Super Y (Summer League) Already?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:All I can say is that top athletes play or train all of the time. C. Ronaldo is infamous for his constant rigorous training/practice even though he is the best or one of the best in his profession.

Ronaldo is a mega superstar with the best trainers, drugs, therapy and equipment. Your kid doesn't have any of that.

Ronaldo has a MAJOR knee issue from chronic over use that will continue to worsen over time.

And he wouldn't trade his life with you and your healthy knees in a million years.

And you didn't counter my point.

I didn't have to. Kids who play regularly until they are 17 will not suffer any greater knee problems than most people. Comparing playing youth soccer until 17 years old to a professional who's career was 20 years is laughable.

You do realize that you brought up Ronaldo, right?

[Anonymous]

In my mind, early specialization and year round sports can be harmful for two main reasons. First, doing one activity day after day, month after month, and year after year puts stress on the same bones and joints all the time. These kids’ bones, ligaments, muscles, and tendons are still growing, and they can’t withstand the repetitive stresses and forces without rest. According to the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, almost 50% of injuries in youth sports are overuse injuries. Varying sports allows kids to rest parts of their bodies worn out from one sport (like the shoulder and elbow in baseball) and let other body parts do the work (like the knee and ankle in soccer) for a few months.

Second, playing one sport year round likely takes a psychological toll on kids. Monotony, pressure from coaches and parents to win and excel personally, and even playing through pain can all contribute to burnout in young athletes. A study sponsored by the Youth Sports Institute at Michigan State University shows that 70-80% of athletes who begin playing a sport at an early age end up dropping out by age 15. Among the top ten reasons given for quitting are losing interest, not having fun, getting tired of playing, too much emphasis on winning, wanting to participate in other activities, and too much pressure.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Isn’t it possible to just do Super Y because playing soccer is fun?

Yes exactly. I'm one of the PP's talking about how the gifted kids play a lot. This is NOT happening because their parents are pushing them. Basically these kids just want to play because they love it - and they find ways to do so - the parents couldn't stop them if they tried.

So I completely agree with this. If your kid wants to play Super Y, then sign them up for it. It's fun. If they would rather not play, then don't sign them up for it.

Super Y is awful. And playing all the time doesn't make you better (but it will cause injury.). No, not all the "best" kids are playing all the time. No, not all the best kids are doing personal training, etc.

Bro I dont know you but I promise you your kid isn't even in the conversation with the "BEST" kids

You sound arrogant.

Not the PP here - and he may sound a little arrogant - but the other poster (the one who thinks the best kids aren't playing all the time) is just wrong when he suggests that the top kids don't play all the time. They do. And most of the next tier down play all the time too. I'm guessing this guy doesn't even know who the top kids are, and has probably never heard of the Bolivian league either. He's right about none of them (at least as far as I'm aware) doing one-on-one with a personal trainer though.

I'm the poster your referring to....go ahead and have your kid play 24-7. Do what you feel. Thats your business. I'm offering my opinion. You don't like it? Disregard it.

Most of your kids will stop playing by 16. Enjoy

What is your problem?

Super Y is a pretty casual experience. Perhaps some training once or twice a week and about 8 games. Because it is summer missing games and practices is expected. It just isn’t that big a deal or commitment. Relax and don’t worry about what someone else’s kid is doing.

I kinda said that above.

No, you have attacked it as a waste of time and judged kids and parents for believing their kids are among the best.

No, I attacked the notion that playing 12 months a year is beneficial.

Beneficial to what end? It doesn't need to have any more benefit than to simply be fun. If there are other sports they enjoy playing then do those too. But I think you are looking at the "benefit" in the wrong context.

Again, as I said many times already, playing for fun is great. Thats why they should play. I'm countering the notion that "the best kids are always playing". Its simply not true.

Nobody has made that claim as it pertains to Super Y. Just stop.

The best kids do play and train more than other kids. You are arguing that correlation is causation. But, no, not all the best kids play in Super Y and that claim was never made. Super Y is a pretty mixed bag talent wise. There some very good teams and there are more that are just meh. But who cares?!

Yes..the point was.made that all the best players play all the time.

My guess is that you have taken this thread down this ridiculous rabbit hole because of the following exchange:

^ This. The definition of technically gifted is relative - buty I agree that there are ~5 or so kids per age group who are clearly better than the others - so let's call that the technically gifted group. I think it's worth pointing out that those kids got that way by playing all the time. They play on clubs, they play in unofficial leagues, they play pick-up. They play futsal, they play with older kids and adults, and they play with younger kids. They play in the fall, the winter, the spring and the summer. And they don't stop playing because they have reached the level of "technically gifted". They keep doing it.


My kid is one of the more technically gifted kids on her team and she doesn't do all of the extra stuff. Zero personal training, zero Futsal, zero anything else. However, she learned a lot of technical stuff very young which gave her years to improve on it. A good technical coach very early on is key.

Terrific, you believe that your kid is one of the more technically gifted players on the team and you think that the above poster was throwing shade at your kid because you have chosen to not do extra stuff. Well, I really don't know to say but it is a big leap to say that just because your kid isn't among them that the "best players do not in fact play all the time".

Your child speaks for all the gifted kids. Thank you for your valuable insight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my mind, early specialization and year round sports can be harmful for two main reasons. First, doing one activity day after day, month after month, and year after year puts stress on the same bones and joints all the time. These kids’ bones, ligaments, muscles, and tendons are still growing, and they can’t withstand the repetitive stresses and forces without rest. According to the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, almost 50% of injuries in youth sports are overuse injuries. Varying sports allows kids to rest parts of their bodies worn out from one sport (like the shoulder and elbow in baseball) and let other body parts do the work (like the knee and ankle in soccer) for a few months.

Second, playing one sport year round likely takes a psychological toll on kids. Monotony, pressure from coaches and parents to win and excel personally, and even playing through pain can all contribute to burnout in young athletes. A study sponsored by the Youth Sports Institute at Michigan State University shows that 70-80% of athletes who begin playing a sport at an early age end up dropping out by age 15. Among the top ten reasons given for quitting are losing interest, not having fun, getting tired of playing, too much emphasis on winning, wanting to participate in other activities, and too much pressure.

But as one poster mentioned...there's a good chance he's done playing at 17 when he graduates anyway, so why not support him if he wants to go year round and risk him being done at 15. At least he would know that he gave it his all and it wasn't meant to be rather than play 6 months a year and just not develop the skills necessary to be at the top level. I, personally, don't see how soccer causes over use injuries that would overwise not happen if he took time off of soccer to play basketball or football. Now I understand if people require baseball players to play another sport because I don't even think baseball is much of a physical activity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my mind, early specialization and year round sports can be harmful for two main reasons. First, doing one activity day after day, month after month, and year after year puts stress on the same bones and joints all the time. These kids’ bones, ligaments, muscles, and tendons are still growing, and they can’t withstand the repetitive stresses and forces without rest. According to the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, almost 50% of injuries in youth sports are overuse injuries. Varying sports allows kids to rest parts of their bodies worn out from one sport (like the shoulder and elbow in baseball) and let other body parts do the work (like the knee and ankle in soccer) for a few months.

Second, playing one sport year round likely takes a psychological toll on kids. Monotony, pressure from coaches and parents to win and excel personally, and even playing through pain can all contribute to burnout in young athletes. A study sponsored by the Youth Sports Institute at Michigan State University shows that 70-80% of athletes who begin playing a sport at an early age end up dropping out by age 15. Among the top ten reasons given for quitting are losing interest, not having fun, getting tired of playing, too much emphasis on winning, wanting to participate in other activities, and too much pressure.

But as one poster mentioned...there's a good chance he's done playing at 17 when he graduates anyway, so why not support him if he wants to go year round and risk him being done at 15. At least he would know that he gave it his all and it wasn't meant to be rather than play 6 months a year and just not develop the skills necessary to be at the top level. I, personally, don't see how soccer causes over use injuries that would overwise not happen if he took time off of soccer to play basketball or football. Now I understand if people require baseball players to play another sport because I don't even think baseball is much of a physical activity.

Because it doesn't have to be over before they hit puberty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t it possible to just do Super Y because playing soccer is fun?

Yes exactly. I'm one of the PP's talking about how the gifted kids play a lot. This is NOT happening because their parents are pushing them. Basically these kids just want to play because they love it - and they find ways to do so - the parents couldn't stop them if they tried.

So I completely agree with this. If your kid wants to play Super Y, then sign them up for it. It's fun. If they would rather not play, then don't sign them up for it.

Super Y is awful. And playing all the time doesn't make you better (but it will cause injury.). No, not all the "best" kids are playing all the time. No, not all the best kids are doing personal training, etc.

Bro I dont know you but I promise you your kid isn't even in the conversation with the "BEST" kids

You sound arrogant.

Not the PP here - and he may sound a little arrogant - but the other poster (the one who thinks the best kids aren't playing all the time) is just wrong when he suggests that the top kids don't play all the time. They do. And most of the next tier down play all the time too. I'm guessing this guy doesn't even know who the top kids are, and has probably never heard of the Bolivian league either. He's right about none of them (at least as far as I'm aware) doing one-on-one with a personal trainer though.

I'm the poster your referring to....go ahead and have your kid play 24-7. Do what you feel. Thats your business. I'm offering my opinion. You don't like it? Disregard it.

Most of your kids will stop playing by 16. Enjoy

You weren't "offering an opinion". You were stating something as fact which wasn't true.

This was a simple discussion on whether or not the top kids play a lot. You claimed they do not. I pointed out that they do. I know they do, because I see them doing it every week.

Now you are claiming the following:

1. I "have my kid" play 24-7.
2. Most of my kids will stop playing by 16.

Yet again you are spouting nonsense.

You really are a blithering idiot.

Playing a summer league, a fall league, a winter league, a spring league, and back to a summer league...repeat year after year.....won't make your kid good. It will burn them out and lead to injury.

This is the mentality of U9-14 parents. You have it all figured out. I'll excuse my idiot self from this conversation.

You continue to invent your own facts and argue with yourself.

1. I have never claimed that playing all the time automatically makes a kid (mine or anyone else's) good.
2. I have never said I am the parent of a U9-14 year old.
3. I have never claimed to have it all figured out.
4. I wish you would excuse your idiot self from the conversation - but my guess is that you're making that up too and you will continue to blither your utter nonsense.

I have made one very simple claim - that the top U14-U16 kids in this area - the ones that go to the YNT trials - all play a lot. That's the extent of my claim. I know it's true because I know who those kids are, and I see them playing all the time. You on the other hand are talking complete BS.

[Anonymous]

New Poster here....I think there are a few people arguing about what top players do. In my limited experience in this area, I don't know of any top players (by top players I mean the better players on DCU youth teams, MLS Next teams, and ECNL teams in the age groups of like U13-U16) that play Super Y. I think Super Y is a great, casual league for kids to stay engaged with over the summer. I never did it because the rosters were too big and I just didn't see the benefit. I see lots of top players doing supplemental, small group training year round. I see lots of top players play futsal during the winter and year round. I see lots of top players playing pick up year round. I see lots of top players in supplemental leagues. I see lots of top players playing year round with ZERO time off (I mean maybe a week vacation or something but noone that I know of takes 2 months off to play another sport but I know many that will double up on sports). Just observations and of course there is no way I know the majority of these top players but I know quite a few. In summary, I agree with whoever says that top players play ALOT! : )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All I can say is that top athletes play or train all of the time. C. Ronaldo is infamous for his constant rigorous training/practice even though he is the best or one of the best in his profession.

Ronaldo is a mega superstar with the best trainers, drugs, therapy and equipment. Your kid doesn't have any of that.

Ronaldo has a MAJOR knee issue from chronic over use that will continue to worsen over time.

And he wouldn't trade his life with you and your healthy knees in a million years.

And you didn't counter my point.

I didn't have to. Kids who play regularly until they are 17 will not suffer any greater knee problems than most people. Comparing playing youth soccer until 17 years old to a professional who's career was 20 years is laughable.

Indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New Poster here....I think there are a few people arguing about what top players do. In my limited experience in this area, I don't know of any top players (by top players I mean the better players on DCU youth teams, MLS Next teams, and ECNL teams in the age groups of like U13-U16) that play Super Y. I think Super Y is a great, casual league for kids to stay engaged with over the summer. I never did it because the rosters were too big and I just didn't see the benefit. I see lots of top players doing supplemental, small group training year round. I see lots of top players play futsal during the winter and year round. I see lots of top players playing pick up year round. I see lots of top players in supplemental leagues. I see lots of top players playing year round with ZERO time off (I mean maybe a week vacation or something but noone that I know of takes 2 months off to play another sport but I know many that will double up on sports). Just observations and of course there is no way I know the majority of these top players but I know quite a few. In summary, I agree with whoever says that top players play ALOT! : )

I completely agree with this, which basically matches what I have said.

Not especially important, but perhaps relevant to this thread, is that at least some of these players did play Super Y when they were U10/11/12.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New Poster here....I think there are a few people arguing about what top players do. In my limited experience in this area, I don't know of any top players (by top players I mean the better players on DCU youth teams, MLS Next teams, and ECNL teams in the age groups of like U13-U16) that play Super Y. I think Super Y is a great, casual league for kids to stay engaged with over the summer. I never did it because the rosters were too big and I just didn't see the benefit. I see lots of top players doing supplemental, small group training year round. I see lots of top players play futsal during the winter and year round. I see lots of top players playing pick up year round. I see lots of top players in supplemental leagues. I see lots of top players playing year round with ZERO time off (I mean maybe a week vacation or something but noone that I know of takes 2 months off to play another sport but I know many that will double up on sports). Just observations and of course there is no way I know the majority of these top players but I know quite a few. In summary, I agree with whoever says that top players play ALOT! : )

I completely agree with this, which basically matches what I have said.

Not especially important, but perhaps relevant to this thread, is that at least some of these players did play Super Y when they were U10/11/12.

Oh - and one other point - the rosters are big, but that just cancels out the absences for vacations. The actual number of kids showing up to games is usually about right.

[Anonymous]

None of this means that their time in Super Y, Bolivian or whatever side playing they did was a waste of time, especially if they enjoyed playing. I find it odd that we worry so much about overuse and "burnout" with kids activities that past 17 years old most of them will never get to enjoy in the same way again. Let them play until they have had their fill, they are only kids once.

Completely agree. If a kid wants to play then he should. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't.

The best players do play a lot. But they play a lot because they want to play, not because their parents are signing them up for leagues they don't want to play in.

There are only two potentially bad situations:

1. You force your kid to play soccer when he doesn't want to. Nothing good comes of this.
2. You prevent your kid from playing soccer when he does want to because <insert some reason not related to family priorities here>.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All I can say is that top athletes play or train all of the time. C. Ronaldo is infamous for his constant rigorous training/practice even though he is the best or one of the best in his profession.

Ronaldo is a mega superstar with the best trainers, drugs, therapy and equipment. Your kid doesn't have any of that.

Ronaldo has a MAJOR knee issue from chronic over use that will continue to worsen over time.

And he wouldn't trade his life with you and your healthy knees in a million years.

And you didn't counter my point.

I didn't have to. Kids who play regularly until they are 17 will not suffer any greater knee problems than most people. Comparing playing youth soccer until 17 years old to a professional who's career was 20 years is laughable.

You do realize that you brought up Ronaldo, right?

Actually, I didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

None of this means that their time in Super Y, Bolivian or whatever side playing they did was a waste of time, especially if they enjoyed playing. I find it odd that we worry so much about overuse and "burnout" with kids activities that past 17 years old most of them will never get to enjoy in the same way again. Let them play until they have had their fill, they are only kids once.

Completely agree. If a kid wants to play then he should. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't.

The best players do play a lot. But they play a lot because they want to play, not because their parents are signing them up for leagues they don't want to play in.

There are only two potentially bad situations:

1. You force your kid to play soccer when he doesn't want to. Nothing good comes of this.
2. You prevent your kid from playing soccer when he does want to because <insert some reason not related to family priorities here>.

Seriously, how many of you can force your teenage son to do anything? Is this actually a thing for top players? I can see if your kid won't get off the couch and you force him to play a sport but this kid is not a top player. Are there parents out there willing to admit that their kid is a top player on a top team and they hate it and you force him to play?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

None of this means that their time in Super Y, Bolivian or whatever side playing they did was a waste of time, especially if they enjoyed playing. I find it odd that we worry so much about overuse and "burnout" with kids activities that past 17 years old most of them will never get to enjoy in the same way again. Let them play until they have had their fill, they are only kids once.

Completely agree. If a kid wants to play then he should. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't.

The best players do play a lot. But they play a lot because they want to play, not because their parents are signing them up for leagues they don't want to play in.

There are only two potentially bad situations:

1. You force your kid to play soccer when he doesn't want to. Nothing good comes of this.
2. You prevent your kid from playing soccer when he does want to because <insert some reason not related to family priorities here>.

Seriously, how many of you can force your teenage son to do anything? Is this actually a thing for top players? I can see if your kid won't get off the couch and you force him to play a sport but this kid is not a top player. Are there parents out there willing to admit that their kid is a top player on a top team and they hate it and you force him to play?

Sometimes I force mine to do his homework again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my mind, early specialization and year round sports can be harmful for two main reasons. First, doing one activity day after day, month after month, and year after year puts stress on the same bones and joints all the time. These kids’ bones, ligaments, muscles, and tendons are still growing, and they can’t withstand the repetitive stresses and forces without rest. According to the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, almost 50% of injuries in youth sports are overuse injuries. Varying sports allows kids to rest parts of their bodies worn out from one sport (like the shoulder and elbow in baseball) and let other body parts do the work (like the knee and ankle in soccer) for a few months.

Second, playing one sport year round likely takes a psychological toll on kids. Monotony, pressure from coaches and parents to win and excel personally, and even playing through pain can all contribute to burnout in young athletes. A study sponsored by the Youth Sports Institute at Michigan State University shows that 70-80% of athletes who begin playing a sport at an early age end up dropping out by age 15. Among the top ten reasons given for quitting are losing interest, not having fun, getting tired of playing, too much emphasis on winning, wanting to participate in other activities, and too much pressure.

But as one poster mentioned...there's a good chance he's done playing at 17 when he graduates anyway, so why not support him if he wants to go year round and risk him being done at 15. At least he would know that he gave it his all and it wasn't meant to be rather than play 6 months a year and just not develop the skills necessary to be at the top level. I, personally, don't see how soccer causes over use injuries that would overwise not happen if he took time off of soccer to play basketball or football. Now I understand if people require baseball players to play another sport because I don't even think baseball is much of a physical activity.

Because it doesn't have to be over before they hit puberty.

Relax dual age group guy. There is nothing wrong with the timeframe of when kids choose to pursue other interests.

Kids that quit a primary sport like soccer at a young age do so more because they are not keeping up skill wise and therefor the game just isn't as fun. I don't know of any "A team" players that quit playing. I do know B, C and D team kids who quit and many who are still playing. In all the cases of kids who quit they chose the activity that liked more and an activity in which they excelled. Just because a parent signs a kid up for a activity at 6 years old does it mean they have to see it through until they are 18 years old. The whole point of doing a variety of things at that age is to do precisely this. Just as many kids who play youth soccer decide to do Super Y as others choose to do the summer swim team.