Amy Coney Barrett- what in the actual F?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Earlier today, a friend of mine posted something about ACB and how we should pay attention to the way that she introduces her children, basically crowing about the academic achievements of the white children and basically saying that the biggest achievement of the black adoptive children is that they came from Haiti. I’m not sure I’m fully on board with that criticism, but as I was looking for the clip, I came across this article, which talks about how when she was adopting her second child, she found out she was pregnant.

It goes on to say “ Just as her husband was making final arrangements to pick John Peter up at the airport in Florida and complete the adoption, Amy learned that she was pregnant with Juliet. For about three hours, they weren't sure what decision to make. They had wanted five, but now it was looking like five and six were coming together. While taking a walk, Amy realized that her most significant impact on the world was raising her children. They decided to welcome John Peter into their family. A few days later, the three-year-old arrived at their home.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.moms.com/amy-coney-barretts-children/amp/

Mind you, this is immediately after the Haiti earthquake. OK so I have never adopted a child, but I literally cannot imagine the thought process of somebody who goes to Haiti to adopt a three year old child and then finds out that she is pregnant so then has second thoughts about going through with the adoption, literally having just rescued the orphan child from an earthquake destroyed foreign country. What kind of a person does this, and then freely admits to it as a point of pride in an interview? I’m disgusted. Which child wants to grow up reading this? If I were adopted I think I’d probably want to hear from my mom that she never doubted for a second that she wanted me. Not that she had a three hour window of debating whether or not I was worthy of her love.

Enough said. “I have never adopted a child.” This is likely the most hypocritical post ever. Have you ever been to Haiti or helped anyone other than yourself? Probably not. Then you throw race into it when she’s adopted two kids from Haiti. She’s a better human being than you’ll ever hope to be. Now, will she make a good justice? Who the heck knows, but you’re a complete and utter clown.

I have never adopted a child but I certainly have a child, and I know that I would never, ever fly to Haiti, form a parental relationship with a three year old over the course of several months, tell them that I was going to be their mommy, make all the preparations to pack up the child, remove them from their current surroundings and country, fly to another country with them, and then once there - reconsider if I wanted them at all bc I was pregnant. I would never do that. How very Christian of her. No PP, she is not a better human being than me. She's just more white and more "religious".

DP. You’re speaking from a place of ignorance. I have both bio and adopted children (domestic adoption with international flair). One thing that is made 100% clear to all prospective adoptive parents is that until the adoption is finalized that child is not your child. Indeed, there are numerous heartbreaking stories of children going home with adoptive parents only for the process to be undone legally. I also have a law degree and once you understand the family law dynamics to the adoption process on top of what your adoption agency is telling you, you don’t breath a sigh of relief and it is in the back of your mind that that child is not your child until the documents are finalized. Not because you would bail, but because that’s how the process works.

You’re applying your framework to how you would react but a comfortable percentage of parents who have been through adoption would have reacted like she did. We have friends in our neighborhood who were deep into the adoption process thinking they would never be able to conceive when they got a surprise pregnancy. Their bio daughter was born 2 months after their adopted daughter. These scenarios are not uncommon.

I do t have to adopt to know that it is disgusting to be holding a bonded three year old child in your arms and think “well, now I’m pregnant so maybe I won’t go through with this.” And that is NOT the same as a scenario where the adoption does not go through due to external legal/political/administrative factors. Don’t be disingenuous- she didn’t want the baby anymore bc she was having her own baby. And she said as much in stark language in an interview.

Again, anybody who has been through the process knows that you are clearly coached and counseled to accept that the adopted child is not your child until the adoption process in finalized and blessed by the legal system. The process is intentionally difficult and creates a situation where adoptive parents do keep some of their guard up.

Life isn’t neat and easy. I’d say that for the vast majority of families that go through the adoption process it is a gut wrenching process with lots of moments of self-doubt and second guessing. She had four children with a life plan in place to have five and she unexpectedly found out she was pregnant during a major inflection point in her life. Perhaps you would be the perfect example of grace and dignity under such circumstances, but she was candid and honest about her reaction and a reaction that many people would have shared. And, ultimately, she came to the right answer.

Her personal story really gets to people for some reason. She’s literally the embodiment of the woman who decides when and how many kids to have and a pro lifer who has done something about kids once they are out of the womb. Her personal story is a clear answer to some of the strongest criticisms about pro life people but it isn’t good enough. There is plenty of substantive stuff to criticize her over without chasing this area to attack her.

Again, you are missing the most important perpsective in this mix---the voice of adult adoptees. You are self projecting. Perhaps you have adopted and you need to share with the world how hard it was and how you were a great person. Part of that includes how you "saved" children, and how difficult it was given their trauma. See a theme here? It's all about you, the adoptive parent. Adult adoptees have been vocalizing how they don't want to be used as props and it is their story to be told, not their parents. But some of you (ACB included) can't help yourselves.

The opposite of abortion is not adoption, it's parenting.

Don't give me any prolife drama when you can't accept climate change or comment on how it's immoral to separate kids from parents at the border.

And for the love of G_d, don't praise her for being an excellent parent when she doesn't consider the Nword at work to be hostile. SHe does have 2 Black kids and I worry about their safety

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to listen to adult adoptees. Especially Black adult adoptees who were adopted by White parents. Most of them do not/did not appreciate their parents sharing their story so publicly. You can see the "white saviorism" coming through in ACB. Also, how is it that she has 2 Black kids and has never read a book on structural racism in the US? That is irresponsible and dangerous

Yeah, pretty much this. Does she think that she is shielded from racist thoughts and actions? Or the adoptions render her with some kind of magic power allowing her to transcend a condition that pervades nearly every corner of our society?

On

Totally

[Anonymous]

If the nominee was a male with 7 kids and two adopted there would be very little discussion. It's too bad that most of the people on this thread are women attacking another woman. I disagree with her stand on just about everything but I'm not going to attacker her motherhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People need to listen to adult adoptees. Especially Black adult adoptees who were adopted by White parents. Most of them do not/did not appreciate their parents sharing their story so publicly. You can see the "white saviorism" coming through in ACB. Also, how is it that she has 2 Black kids and has never read a book on structural racism in the US? That is irresponsible and dangerous

Yeah, pretty much this. Does she think that she is shielded from racist thoughts and actions? Or the adoptions render her with some kind of magic power allowing her to transcend a condition that pervades nearly every corner of our society?

On

Totally

Oh, you knowwwww it was some ultra conservative Christian adoption agency I'm sure, that facilitated this adoption

[Anonymous]

The aunt raises the kids on a day-to-day basis.

It reminds me so much of the Mrs America series about Phyllis Schlaffly. There are so many parallels in their personal narratives. But, unlike Schlaffly, ACB has “made it.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the nominee was a male with 7 kids and two adopted there would be very little discussion. It's too bad that most of the people on this thread are women attacking another woman. I disagree with her stand on just about everything but I'm not going to attacker her motherhood.

Well, I am because it's not just about parenting, it's also about using her Black kids as a prop to make us think she's not racist and you are falling into the trap. being a mother does not mean you are not absolved of criticism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the nominee was a male with 7 kids and two adopted there would be very little discussion. It's too bad that most of the people on this thread are women attacking another woman. I disagree with her stand on just about everything but I'm not going to attacker her motherhood.

The GOP wouldn’t use a male nominee’s “father” identity a primary talking point.

Remember, she herself stressed her role as a mother and every GOP Senator brought it up unprompted in their remarks. We wouldn’t be debating it right now if the GOP and the nominee herself didn’t stress it so much as one of her main qualifications.

Therefore, it’s on the table for debate. Don’t b#tch and moan because you don’t like how the debate is going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:white people cannot raise Black children. Period. End of discussion. She has literally stolen their lives.

You are a moron and a bigot. First of all, some white people have biological black children. Should they be taken away to satisfy your ridiculous narrative? Should other black children jump from foster home to foster home rather than be adopted by a white family who will give them a stable, loving home? No! You are putting principle before the welfare of children and it demonstrates nothing but selfishness, idiocy, and bigotry. You ought to be ashamed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:white people cannot raise Black children. Period. End of discussion. She has literally stolen their lives.

You are a moron and a bigot. First of all, some white people have biological black children. Should they be taken away to satisfy your ridiculous narrative? Should other black children jump from foster home to foster home rather than be adopted by a white family who will give them a stable, loving home? No! You are putting principle before the welfare of children and it demonstrates nothing but selfishness, idiocy, and bigotry. You ought to be ashamed.

White adoptive parents need to do their damn work and learn about racism before adopting Black children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PP lawyer who keeps saying you don’t know the child is yours until the adoption is final-

Don’t they also stress that the kids aren’t dogs and you don’t get to try them out and return them if it doesn’t work? The kid in this case was already stateside. Things could go awry but the parents should be committed at that point. You don’t get to return or rehome your intended children-weird it even seemed like an option to her.

It isn’t that you don’t know the child is yours; it is that you are explicitly told that legally that child is not your child until a court blesses it and you need to understand that until finalizing the child can be taken from your family for any reason at all and there isn’t anything you can do about it.

Again, life is not easy and neat. Everybody on both sides of the political aisle agrees that an unexpected pregnancy can be and often is paradigm shattering event for a woman. I don’t understand the critique that she had a human reaction in that particular moment and she was honest and candid about it. Would you rather she hide the truth or pretend it didn’t happen? And of course, the situation was compounded by the fact that she was already in the middle of a stressful event (taking custody of a child she was trying to adopt). I don’t doubt that some people would have a perfect emotional response in such a moment, but having been through the process myself and knowing others in the community that have been through the process, I would venture that many (perhaps most) would have reacted as she did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cringed of her description of her adoptive children. Major white savior complex.

Yeah, I’m sure they would have been much better off had they stayed in Haiti, if they were even still alive at all. She is their savior, and there are thousands of children out there who need more saviors like her. But the stupid SJWs like you establish this ridiculous narrative with no regard for their well-being at all. You would rather they stay living in poverty, squalor and abuse, jumping from foster home to foster home, anything but being adopted by a white family. It is immoral and shameful.

DP: While you talk as though there are only two options: poverty and squalor vs white savior mommy. There really are many other options. And it’s possible that as a family, the Barrett’s have done their homework, have built a support system for their kids that actively addresses what it might mean for them to be Black kids with white parents in a society that priorities and values people that look like their parents and their siblings over people who look like them. It’s possible that the Barrett’s are also supporting efforts that help families stay together when the stresses of poverty can be remedied by the tight amount of cash spent the right ways at the right times. If you know more about that then you’ve stated, please share. Otherwise your stance makes you seem, well, immoral and shameful and rather limited yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP lawyer who keeps saying you don’t know the child is yours until the adoption is final-

Don’t they also stress that the kids aren’t dogs and you don’t get to try them out and return them if it doesn’t work? The kid in this case was already stateside. Things could go awry but the parents should be committed at that point. You don’t get to return or rehome your intended children-weird it even seemed like an option to her.

It isn’t that you don’t know the child is yours; it is that you are explicitly told that legally that child is not your child until a court blesses it and you need to understand that until finalizing the child can be taken from your family for any reason at all and there isn’t anything you can do about it.

Again, life is not easy and neat. Everybody on both sides of the political aisle agrees that an unexpected pregnancy can be and often is paradigm shattering event for a woman. I don’t understand the critique that she had a human reaction in that particular moment and she was honest and candid about it. Would you rather she hide the truth or pretend it didn’t happen? And of course, the situation was compounded by the fact that she was already in the middle of a stressful event (taking custody of a child she was trying to adopt). I don’t doubt that some people would have a perfect emotional response in such a moment, but having been through the process myself and knowing others in the community that have been through the process, I would venture that many (perhaps most) would have reacted as she did.

The court does not "bless" you. The court finalizes the adoption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP lawyer who keeps saying you don’t know the child is yours until the adoption is final-

Don’t they also stress that the kids aren’t dogs and you don’t get to try them out and return them if it doesn’t work? The kid in this case was already stateside. Things could go awry but the parents should be committed at that point. You don’t get to return or rehome your intended children-weird it even seemed like an option to her.

It isn’t that you don’t know the child is yours; it is that you are explicitly told that legally that child is not your child until a court blesses it and you need to understand that until finalizing the child can be taken from your family for any reason at all and there isn’t anything you can do about it.

Again, life is not easy and neat. Everybody on both sides of the political aisle agrees that an unexpected pregnancy can be and often is paradigm shattering event for a woman. I don’t understand the critique that she had a human reaction in that particular moment and she was honest and candid about it. Would you rather she hide the truth or pretend it didn’t happen? And of course, the situation was compounded by the fact that she was already in the middle of a stressful event (taking custody of a child she was trying to adopt). I don’t doubt that some people would have a perfect emotional response in such a moment, but having been through the process myself and knowing others in the community that have been through the process, I would venture that many (perhaps most) would have reacted as she did.

The court does not "bless" you. The court finalizes the adoption.

Yes, I would rather that she had the presence of mind to understand that second guessing her near-final adoption bc she was having another child is not a talking point. She may as well have said that she found out she was having twins and deliberated for three hours whether to abort one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the nominee was a male with 7 kids and two adopted there would be very little discussion. It's too bad that most of the people on this thread are women attacking another woman. I disagree with her stand on just about everything but I'm not going to attacker her motherhood.

I can only speak for myself. If a male nominee had described his kids with similar words, I would be just as scathing and just as concerned. It’s not easy to be a Black kid in a white world. I’m guessing that it’s even harder to be a Black kid in a white world when your parents publicly speak about you in ways that comfortably align with traditional stereotypes, and when those words will float around on the internet forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Earlier today, a friend of mine posted something about ACB and how we should pay attention to the way that she introduces her children, basically crowing about the academic achievements of the white children and basically saying that the biggest achievement of the black adoptive children is that they came from Haiti. I’m not sure I’m fully on board with that criticism, but as I was looking for the clip, I came across this article, which talks about how when she was adopting her second child, she found out she was pregnant.

It goes on to say “ Just as her husband was making final arrangements to pick John Peter up at the airport in Florida and complete the adoption, Amy learned that she was pregnant with Juliet. For about three hours, they weren't sure what decision to make. They had wanted five, but now it was looking like five and six were coming together. While taking a walk, Amy realized that her most significant impact on the world was raising her children. They decided to welcome John Peter into their family. A few days later, the three-year-old arrived at their home.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.moms.com/amy-coney-barretts-children/amp/

Mind you, this is immediately after the Haiti earthquake. OK so I have never adopted a child, but I literally cannot imagine the thought process of somebody who goes to Haiti to adopt a three year old child and then finds out that she is pregnant so then has second thoughts about going through with the adoption, literally having just rescued the orphan child from an earthquake destroyed foreign country. What kind of a person does this, and then freely admits to it as a point of pride in an interview? I’m disgusted. Which child wants to grow up reading this? If I were adopted I think I’d probably want to hear from my mom that she never doubted for a second that she wanted me. Not that she had a three hour window of debating whether or not I was worthy of her love.

Enough said. “I have never adopted a child.” This is likely the most hypocritical post ever. Have you ever been to Haiti or helped anyone other than yourself? Probably not. Then you throw race into it when she’s adopted two kids from Haiti. She’s a better human being than you’ll ever hope to be. Now, will she make a good justice? Who the heck knows, but you’re a complete and utter clown.

I have never adopted a child but I certainly have a child, and I know that I would never, ever fly to Haiti, form a parental relationship with a three year old over the course of several months, tell them that I was going to be their mommy, make all the preparations to pack up the child, remove them from their current surroundings and country, fly to another country with them, and then once there - reconsider if I wanted them at all bc I was pregnant. I would never do that. How very Christian of her. No PP, she is not a better human being than me. She's just more white and more "religious".

DP. You’re speaking from a place of ignorance. I have both bio and adopted children (domestic adoption with international flair). One thing that is made 100% clear to all prospective adoptive parents is that until the adoption is finalized that child is not your child. Indeed, there are numerous heartbreaking stories of children going home with adoptive parents only for the process to be undone legally. I also have a law degree and once you understand the family law dynamics to the adoption process on top of what your adoption agency is telling you, you don’t breath a sigh of relief and it is in the back of your mind that that child is not your child until the documents are finalized. Not because you would bail, but because that’s how the process works.

You’re applying your framework to how you would react but a comfortable percentage of parents who have been through adoption would have reacted like she did. We have friends in our neighborhood who were deep into the adoption process thinking they would never be able to conceive when they got a surprise pregnancy. Their bio daughter was born 2 months after their adopted daughter. These scenarios are not uncommon.

I do t have to adopt to know that it is disgusting to be holding a bonded three year old child in your arms and think “well, now I’m pregnant so maybe I won’t go through with this.” And that is NOT the same as a scenario where the adoption does not go through due to external legal/political/administrative factors. Don’t be disingenuous- she didn’t want the baby anymore bc she was having her own baby. And she said as much in stark language in an interview.

Again, anybody who has been through the process knows that you are clearly coached and counseled to accept that the adopted child is not your child until the adoption process in finalized and blessed by the legal system. The process is intentionally difficult and creates a situation where adoptive parents do keep some of their guard up.

Life isn’t neat and easy. I’d say that for the vast majority of families that go through the adoption process it is a gut wrenching process with lots of moments of self-doubt and second guessing. She had four children with a life plan in place to have five and she unexpectedly found out she was pregnant during a major inflection point in her life. Perhaps you would be the perfect example of grace and dignity under such circumstances, but she was candid and honest about her reaction and a reaction that many people would have shared. And, ultimately, she came to the right answer.

Her personal story really gets to people for some reason. She’s literally the embodiment of the woman who decides when and how many kids to have and a pro lifer who has done something about kids once they are out of the womb. Her personal story is a clear answer to some of the strongest criticisms about pro life people but it isn’t good enough. There is plenty of substantive stuff to criticize her over without chasing this area to attack her.

As someone who has been through the international adoption process, we were not "clearly coached and counseled" that it is not your child until it's final. We were aware that anything could happen (that's true with nearly everything), but it wasn't coached and counseled. And truly, if it were, it's because they don't want the parents to get their hopes up about a particular child, and then something on the other end takes place, that you can no longer adopt that child. It's NOT so parents can change their mind AT THE LAST MINUTE about a child that has been matched with them. That's horrific and made even worse because the child was 3 years old and would likely have an idea about what was going on. To have been rejected by them at the last minute would have been a crushing blow.

I adopted a child and have biological children, too. I am just a mom. I am not a martyr like you are making ACB be. I am Pro-Choice.