MAP Score - 5th Grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My own kid was not in the CES and he scored higher than other kids who were AT THE SAME SCHOOL as him and WERE IN THE CES. He got in because his scores were higher not because he wasn’t in the CES.

Immediate PP--You and I are on the same page, I think. Agree your child's scores are quite high and waitlist sounds reasonable based the limited information I have about scores.

I was responding to the parent, quoted above, who has a kid who seems to have gotten in from the regular program at a school that also houses a CES. She is insisting, in a kind of freakish and defensive way, that her child definitely got in because he scored higher than other kids in the CES. Seems very offended at the idea that he might not have. I don't know either way and neither does she.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My kid took 5/6 math with most of the CES kids. He and another kid were the strongest in math by a lot. True outliers. They both got in. No one else did. It worked like it was meant to. The other kid was in the CES. All the other CES kids didn’t get in.

So you know MAP-M scores, but probably nothing else. I've never heard of a CES where the CES kids are grouped with non-CES kids for math. It's normally self-contained for the academic blocks, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - My kid got it at the end of her test and just showed me.

We are in a W feeder school so I'm guessing it's going to be unlikely that my kid gets into a magnet MS.

If you're not at a CES even if you're at a W-feeder school, that increases your chance vastly.

This is not true. I think what you are trying to claim is that if you are not at a school that houses a CES.

This is absolutely true. We know of twins. One (female) at their local school and one (male) at a CES. The one at the CES had higher schools on all tests, grades, etc and did not get in while the one at the local school did. Both would have gone to the same middle school.

You don’t seem to understand. If the twins were at the SAME school and one was in the CES and the other was not you’d be able to compare. But it sounds like they were at different schools with different feeder patterns and different demographics. So you are wrong.

I think you are the one who is confused. They use the home middle school to compare so they would have been ranked on the same "list." The things that are different are gender and the fact they wanted to take kids from every elementary. She must have been one of the top scorers in her elementary. The admits from our home school were kids who just missed CES admission (wait listed) or turned down the CES (but admitted) for 4th/5th.

Look, lady, tell me how two kids would fare with the same scores at the same school where one is in the CES program and the other is not. That’s the only way to compare to see if the CES makes a difference. My own kid was not in the CES and he scored higher than other kids who were AT THE SAME SCHOOL as him and WERE IN THE CES. He got in because his scores were higher not because he wasn’t in the CES.

You need to calm down. No one is insulting your child. This is the reality of the MCPS system. No one has any idea if your child scored higher or not, unless they work at MCPS. I don't know how you could possibly claim to know this information.

MAP scores are posted on the screen so other kids can see it and kids talk. Parents talk too. There is nothing that special of CES but your kid is with all smart kids and very segregated.

If your child was at a CES I would not be so skeptical that your child knows the range of MAP scores of the other kids at the CES. But your child was not at a CES, has not been testing in the same room as the CES kids. Second, I know some kids shared their Cogat scores with each other but it is really just a handful and who knows if those scores are accurate.

I do think the 3rd grade test might miss some very bright kids. Wasn't it just a screener rather than a full Cogat? So it's certainly possible a kid at a regional CES school but not in the program might score higher than other CES kids. It's also possible a kid might have had a bad day in 3rd grade and then did better in 5th for testing or that she or he began to blossom later. Who knows.

What is absurd is your absolute insistence that your child definitely scored higher than all the other kids in the CES to gain admission. Scored higher on what test? Why don't you post your child's scores and people here can weigh in? Other PPs are being very open about their child's scores and comparing. Let's compare yours.

You’re missing the kids who joined in fourth or fifth and were never considered for the CES. MCPS has been clear about the criteria and they do not expect students who were at a CES to score higher than those who are not. There are other factors at play.

FWIW, they absolutely did the right thing in selecting my kid. He’s been an outlier since he taught himself to read at age 3. MCPS curriculum for fifth was a disaster for him. They weren’t meeting his needs at all. It was clear to anyone who has ever taught him that he would be a strong candidate for this type of program and also clear that he didn’t have a solid peer group at the same level at his elementary. So for us, the system worked as it should have done.

[Anonymous]

You're feeling insecure because you felt like the MS magnet acceptance was a validation that your child is smarter than/better than/superior to the CES kids. You have a chip on your shoulder. I don't know why.

MCPS has been clear they balanced for elementary school representation and the result of that, which they never stated explicitly because it wasn't a criteria but a result of the criteria, was some CES kids with higher scores than non-CES kids did not get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - My kid got it at the end of her test and just showed me.

We are in a W feeder school so I'm guessing it's going to be unlikely that my kid gets into a magnet MS.

If you're not at a CES even if you're at a W-feeder school, that increases your chance vastly.

This is not true. I think what you are trying to claim is that if you are not at a school that houses a CES.

This is absolutely true. We know of twins. One (female) at their local school and one (male) at a CES. The one at the CES had higher schools on all tests, grades, etc and did not get in while the one at the local school did. Both would have gone to the same middle school.

You don’t seem to understand. If the twins were at the SAME school and one was in the CES and the other was not you’d be able to compare. But it sounds like they were at different schools with different feeder patterns and different demographics. So you are wrong.

I think you are the one who is confused. They use the home middle school to compare so they would have been ranked on the same "list." The things that are different are gender and the fact they wanted to take kids from every elementary. She must have been one of the top scorers in her elementary. The admits from our home school were kids who just missed CES admission (wait listed) or turned down the CES (but admitted) for 4th/5th.

Look, lady, tell me how two kids would fare with the same scores at the same school where one is in the CES program and the other is not. That’s the only way to compare to see if the CES makes a difference. My own kid was not in the CES and he scored higher than other kids who were AT THE SAME SCHOOL as him and WERE IN THE CES. He got in because his scores were higher not because he wasn’t in the CES.

You need to calm down. No one is insulting your child. This is the reality of the MCPS system. No one has any idea if your child scored higher or not, unless they work at MCPS. I don't know how you could possibly claim to know this information.

MAP scores are posted on the screen so other kids can see it and kids talk. Parents talk too. There is nothing that special of CES but your kid is with all smart kids and very segregated.

If your child was at a CES I would not be so skeptical that your child knows the range of MAP scores of the other kids at the CES. But your child was not at a CES, has not been testing in the same room as the CES kids. Second, I know some kids shared their Cogat scores with each other but it is really just a handful and who knows if those scores are accurate.

I do think the 3rd grade test might miss some very bright kids. Wasn't it just a screener rather than a full Cogat? So it's certainly possible a kid at a regional CES school but not in the program might score higher than other CES kids. It's also possible a kid might have had a bad day in 3rd grade and then did better in 5th for testing or that she or he began to blossom later. Who knows.

What is absurd is your absolute insistence that your child definitely scored higher than all the other kids in the CES to gain admission. Scored higher on what test? Why don't you post your child's scores and people here can weigh in? Other PPs are being very open about their child's scores and comparing. Let's compare yours.

You’re missing the kids who joined in fourth or fifth and were never considered for the CES. MCPS has been clear about the criteria and they do not expect students who were at a CES to score higher than those who are not. There are other factors at play.

FWIW, they absolutely did the right thing in selecting my kid. He’s been an outlier since he taught himself to read at age 3. MCPS curriculum for fifth was a disaster for him. They weren’t meeting his needs at all. It was clear to anyone who has ever taught him that he would be a strong candidate for this type of program and also clear that he didn’t have a solid peer group at the same level at his elementary. So for us, the system worked as it should have done.

Your kid is not an outlier for reading at 3. Mine was reading at 3 too. It shocked us when he said he could read and we thought it was memorized but it wasn't. Yes, you kid should have a spot but you are getting defensive about those of our kids who were not offered a spot for middle school, which is the topic at hand. My child didn't have a similar peer group and only a few other kids were at the same level. The system worked for you, but failed some of our kids. We didn't even get any differentiation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're feeling insecure because you felt like the MS magnet acceptance was a validation that your child is smarter than/better than/superior to the CES kids. You have a chip on your shoulder. I don't know why.

MCPS has been clear they balanced for elementary school representation and the result of that, which they never stated explicitly because it wasn't a criteria but a result of the criteria, was some CES kids with higher scores than non-CES kids did not get in.

I'm not seeing it balanced but if that's your justification, ok. If they are leaving kids at their home schools, which I prefer, they should offer differentiation. The schools that house the CES programs often do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kid took 5/6 math with most of the CES kids. He and another kid were the strongest in math by a lot. True outliers. They both got in. No one else did. It worked like it was meant to. The other kid was in the CES. All the other CES kids didn’t get in.

So you know MAP-M scores, but probably nothing else. I've never heard of a CES where the CES kids are grouped with non-CES kids for math. It's normally self-contained for the academic blocks, isn't it?

We know because the kids talk, even ones like mine when we ask them not to. This speaks to some kids at some schools getting more opportunities than others. Mine got nothing but not at a CES school. Be real, there is nothing private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're feeling insecure because you felt like the MS magnet acceptance was a validation that your child is smarter than/better than/superior to the CES kids. You have a chip on your shoulder. I don't know why.

MCPS has been clear they balanced for elementary school representation and the result of that, which they never stated explicitly because it wasn't a criteria but a result of the criteria, was some CES kids with higher scores than non-CES kids did not get in.

I'm not seeing it balanced but if that's your justification, ok. If they are leaving kids at their home schools, which I prefer, they should offer differentiation. The schools that house the CES programs often do.

your posts are really hard to understand, pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kid took 5/6 math with most of the CES kids. He and another kid were the strongest in math by a lot. True outliers. They both got in. No one else did. It worked like it was meant to. The other kid was in the CES. All the other CES kids didn’t get in.

So you know MAP-M scores, but probably nothing else. I've never heard of a CES where the CES kids are grouped with non-CES kids for math. It's normally self-contained for the academic blocks, isn't it?

We know because the kids talk, even ones like mine when we ask them not to. This speaks to some kids at some schools getting more opportunities than others. Mine got nothing but not at a CES school. Be real, there is nothing private.

this one, too. your last 3 sentences make no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kid took 5/6 math with most of the CES kids. He and another kid were the strongest in math by a lot. True outliers. They both got in. No one else did. It worked like it was meant to. The other kid was in the CES. All the other CES kids didn’t get in.

So you know MAP-M scores, but probably nothing else. I've never heard of a CES where the CES kids are grouped with non-CES kids for math. It's normally self-contained for the academic blocks, isn't it?

We know because the kids talk, even ones like mine when we ask them not to. This speaks to some kids at some schools getting more opportunities than others. Mine got nothing but not at a CES school. Be real, there is nothing private.

this one, too. your last 3 sentences make no sense.

Sorry, nothing is private between the kids in 5th from grades to test scores to IEP diagnosis. You are right, didn't fully make sense to someone else.

[Anonymous]

My child knows very little about other kids' grades, test scores or anything else. A few kids brag but they are old enough to keep their mouths shut.

You sound like you are up in everyone's business. I really hope your child is not at my child's school because I want to avoid you like the plague.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kid took 5/6 math with most of the CES kids. He and another kid were the strongest in math by a lot. True outliers. They both got in. No one else did. It worked like it was meant to. The other kid was in the CES. All the other CES kids didn’t get in.

So you know MAP-M scores, but probably nothing else. I've never heard of a CES where the CES kids are grouped with non-CES kids for math. It's normally self-contained for the academic blocks, isn't it?

Nope. Math is not part of the CES. Some kids in the CES are not in 5/6 math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - My kid got it at the end of her test and just showed me.

We are in a W feeder school so I'm guessing it's going to be unlikely that my kid gets into a magnet MS.

If you're not at a CES even if you're at a W-feeder school, that increases your chance vastly.

This is not true. I think what you are trying to claim is that if you are not at a school that houses a CES.

This is absolutely true. We know of twins. One (female) at their local school and one (male) at a CES. The one at the CES had higher schools on all tests, grades, etc and did not get in while the one at the local school did. Both would have gone to the same middle school.

You don’t seem to understand. If the twins were at the SAME school and one was in the CES and the other was not you’d be able to compare. But it sounds like they were at different schools with different feeder patterns and different demographics. So you are wrong.

I think you are the one who is confused. They use the home middle school to compare so they would have been ranked on the same "list." The things that are different are gender and the fact they wanted to take kids from every elementary. She must have been one of the top scorers in her elementary. The admits from our home school were kids who just missed CES admission (wait listed) or turned down the CES (but admitted) for 4th/5th.

Look, lady, tell me how two kids would fare with the same scores at the same school where one is in the CES program and the other is not. That’s the only way to compare to see if the CES makes a difference. My own kid was not in the CES and he scored higher than other kids who were AT THE SAME SCHOOL as him and WERE IN THE CES. He got in because his scores were higher not because he wasn’t in the CES.

You need to calm down. No one is insulting your child. This is the reality of the MCPS system. No one has any idea if your child scored higher or not, unless they work at MCPS. I don't know how you could possibly claim to know this information.

MAP scores are posted on the screen so other kids can see it and kids talk. Parents talk too. There is nothing that special of CES but your kid is with all smart kids and very segregated.

If your child was at a CES I would not be so skeptical that your child knows the range of MAP scores of the other kids at the CES. But your child was not at a CES, has not been testing in the same room as the CES kids. Second, I know some kids shared their Cogat scores with each other but it is really just a handful and who knows if those scores are accurate.

I do think the 3rd grade test might miss some very bright kids. Wasn't it just a screener rather than a full Cogat? So it's certainly possible a kid at a regional CES school but not in the program might score higher than other CES kids. It's also possible a kid might have had a bad day in 3rd grade and then did better in 5th for testing or that she or he began to blossom later. Who knows.

What is absurd is your absolute insistence that your child definitely scored higher than all the other kids in the CES to gain admission. Scored higher on what test? Why don't you post your child's scores and people here can weigh in? Other PPs are being very open about their child's scores and comparing. Let's compare yours.

You’re missing the kids who joined in fourth or fifth and were never considered for the CES. MCPS has been clear about the criteria and they do not expect students who were at a CES to score higher than those who are not. There are other factors at play.

FWIW, they absolutely did the right thing in selecting my kid. He’s been an outlier since he taught himself to read at age 3. MCPS curriculum for fifth was a disaster for him. They weren’t meeting his needs at all. It was clear to anyone who has ever taught him that he would be a strong candidate for this type of program and also clear that he didn’t have a solid peer group at the same level at his elementary. So for us, the system worked as it should have done.

Your kid is not an outlier for reading at 3. Mine was reading at 3 too. It shocked us when he said he could read and we thought it was memorized but it wasn't. Yes, you kid should have a spot but you are getting defensive about those of our kids who were not offered a spot for middle school, which is the topic at hand. My child didn't have a similar peer group and only a few other kids were at the same level. The system worked for you, but failed some of our kids. We didn't even get any differentiation.

I’m sorry it failed your kid. There are many reasons my kid is an outlier and like I said they were obvious. (For example by age 4 he was tested to read at 4th grade level, but go ahead and tell me that kids like that are a dime a dozen - they are not and anyone who has had a kid like that knows it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're feeling insecure because you felt like the MS magnet acceptance was a validation that your child is smarter than/better than/superior to the CES kids. You have a chip on your shoulder. I don't know why.

MCPS has been clear they balanced for elementary school representation and the result of that, which they never stated explicitly because it wasn't a criteria but a result of the criteria, was some CES kids with higher scores than non-CES kids did not get in.

I’m not insecure at all. They made the right choice.

This post hits the nail on the head though. They balance for elementary schools (allegedly). That may favor some kids in schools where there is no CES program, given that many of the high achieving kids have been moved elsewhere. If that’s the case it’s disadvantages all kids in a school that houses a CES, not just “CES kids”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kid took 5/6 math with most of the CES kids. He and another kid were the strongest in math by a lot. True outliers. They both got in. No one else did. It worked like it was meant to. The other kid was in the CES. All the other CES kids didn’t get in.

So you know MAP-M scores, but probably nothing else. I've never heard of a CES where the CES kids are grouped with non-CES kids for math. It's normally self-contained for the academic blocks, isn't it?

At our ES CES kids are intentionally grouped with other kids in the same math level typically 5/6 to better integrate CES kids into the school.