IWLCA Open Zoom Call

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is over my head, just put in plain terms. Why does IWLCA not want to recruit and every other sport does. Just put in simple terms. Thanks

I'm not sure anyone on this board can speak for the IWLCA, and I certainly wouldn't want to put words into their mouths. To get the answer to your question, it might make sense to watch the IWLCA Zoom recording and hear for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is over my head, just put in plain terms. Why does IWLCA not want to recruit and every other sport does. Just put in simple terms. Thanks

I'm not sure anyone on this board can speak for the IWLCA, and I certainly wouldn't want to put words into their mouths. To get the answer to your question, it might make sense to watch the IWLCA Zoom recording and hear for yourself.

Definitely not trying to speak for the IWLCA but did watch the video, but while they are saying their six week evaluation window is the reason for the 10 month delay in recruiting, it is very transparent that this is all about lost camp revenue. No other D1 sport is doing this to its prospective recruits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you understand how Title IX works, and it seems like you are unfamiliar with the recruiting process and its history.

The men's and women's recruiting calendars have been different for years. It's hardly a Title IX violation to have separate calendars, and opportunities are measured by dollars and slots, not months in which PSAs have to vie against other *female* PSAs for the same dollars and slots.

Having to wait until next summer sucks in a lot of ways for '22s, but it will likely save them some money - and it has nothing to do with Title IX.

I dont think you are a real attorney or at least not a very dynamic one. A good lawyer could absolutely make a case out of this, the legal argument is there and this move, if approved by the NCAA, opens the door to make a case for applying Title IX to the application of recruiting rules and opportunites. This is precisely what litigators do - think outside the box - its how laws are shaped and changed by cases. I hope some dynamic, young hungry litigator (maybe an ex-college lax player) takes this on.

If I were on the NCAA board I would certainly hesitate to rubberstamp this request from the IWLCA because it could defieitely lead to an extension of the application of Title IX.

It still seems like you have little understanding of Title IX. The law only requires equal opportunity, which is measured in scholarship dollars (if applicable) and roster slots. It does not, and never has, applied to an equal number of days/months being recruited. As I have pointed out, the recruiting calendar in lacrosse has been different for men and women for years, and it has never been a problem. Simply put, Title IX focuses on producing a roughly equal outcome, not a duplicate process. That clever lawyer you imagine would find it impossible to prove harm on the basis of gender. In fact, because the recruiting period is simply a competition *within* a gender cohort (X women competing for Y roster spots), the only harmed parties would be mommies and daddies who can't brag that School A called their daughter on September 1.

Of course, there is always a chance I am wrong. If you really believe this is a winnable case, you can certainly put your money where your keyboard is and hire a "dynamic" attorney to argue this case for you. This town is filled with out of the box thinkers who would be happy to facilitate a parting between you and your money.

If you go that route, please promise to keep us updated on the progress of your case!

Its sad that you cannot see the holes in your own argument, there are several. Making recruiting opportunites more equitable thru rule application goes directly to the purpose of Title IX. I am an attorney too, with more than a little experince on equality issues. Its also sad that you are trying to make some type of obnoxious statement to hurt the people affected by this proposed move like the one above about "bragging" parents. This is about the girls who have been working hard for years and love the game and want to have the opportunity to play it at the highest level. Your true colors show through in this post; cleary you are arguing for the sake of scoring points againnst people you don't like. That is pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you understand how Title IX works, and it seems like you are unfamiliar with the recruiting process and its history.

The men's and women's recruiting calendars have been different for years. It's hardly a Title IX violation to have separate calendars, and opportunities are measured by dollars and slots, not months in which PSAs have to vie against other *female* PSAs for the same dollars and slots.

Having to wait until next summer sucks in a lot of ways for '22s, but it will likely save them some money - and it has nothing to do with Title IX.

I dont think you are a real attorney or at least not a very dynamic one. A good lawyer could absolutely make a case out of this, the legal argument is there and this move, if approved by the NCAA, opens the door to make a case for applying Title IX to the application of recruiting rules and opportunites. This is precisely what litigators do - think outside the box - its how laws are shaped and changed by cases. I hope some dynamic, young hungry litigator (maybe an ex-college lax player) takes this on.

If I were on the NCAA board I would certainly hesitate to rubberstamp this request from the IWLCA because it could defieitely lead to an extension of the application of Title IX.

It still seems like you have little understanding of Title IX. The law only requires equal opportunity, which is measured in scholarship dollars (if applicable) and roster slots. It does not, and never has, applied to an equal number of days/months being recruited. As I have pointed out, the recruiting calendar in lacrosse has been different for men and women for years, and it has never been a problem. Simply put, Title IX focuses on producing a roughly equal outcome, not a duplicate process. That clever lawyer you imagine would find it impossible to prove harm on the basis of gender. In fact, because the recruiting period is simply a competition *within* a gender cohort (X women competing for Y roster spots), the only harmed parties would be mommies and daddies who can't brag that School A called their daughter on September 1.

Of course, there is always a chance I am wrong. If you really believe this is a winnable case, you can certainly put your money where your keyboard is and hire a "dynamic" attorney to argue this case for you. This town is filled with out of the box thinkers who would be happy to facilitate a parting between you and your money.

If you go that route, please promise to keep us updated on the progress of your case!

Its sad that you cannot see the holes in your own argument, there are several. Making recruiting opportunites more equitable thru rule application goes directly to the purpose of Title IX. I am an attorney too, with more than a little experince on equality issues. Its also sad that you are trying to make some type of obnoxious statement to hurt the people affected by this proposed move like the one above about "bragging" parents. This is about the girls who have been working hard for years and love the game and want to have the opportunity to play it at the highest level. Your true colors show through in this post; cleary you are arguing for the sake of scoring points againnst people you don't like. That is pathetic.

Given the obvious flaws we have already discussed, I am less than optimistic about any possible case brought to court - even if you are as skilled an attorney as you think. As you astutely pointed out, equitable opportunities are a consideration, and an experienced litigator might notice that the number of scholarship dollars and roster spots on the for '21 women's lacrosse PSAs will in no way be reduced by the men's coaches following a different schedule for their '21s.

I hope you are one of the out of the box, dynamic lawyers who a previous poster believes could make this a winnable case. Given your passion and experience, it sounds like you would be a perfect advocate! If you or any of the other posters who interpret Title IX so broadly wind up putting your money where your keyboard is, I will be rooting for you.

As requested earlier, please keep this board updated on your progress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is over my head, just put in plain terms. Why does IWLCA not want to recruit and every other sport does. Just put in simple terms. Thanks

I'm not sure anyone on this board can speak for the IWLCA, and I certainly wouldn't want to put words into their mouths. To get the answer to your question, it might make sense to watch the IWLCA Zoom recording and hear for yourself.

Definitely not trying to speak for the IWLCA but did watch the video, but while they are saying their six week evaluation window is the reason for the 10 month delay in recruiting, it is very transparent that this is all about lost camp revenue. No other D1 sport is doing this to its prospective recruits.

I get what they say about wanting to see a PSA live before starting the process, but it is a difficult situation for the 22s. As you mentioned, all other sports seem to have found a way.

Also, amend my PP to say 22s instead of 21s.

[Anonymous]

I am still confused looked zoom. Still not an understanding why the IWLCA wants to move the date other than they know better than us. You speak to different coaches and they can’t give you a good reason other than the COVID. Is it they just don’t want to recruit and there are no spots? Also can someone share what their programs are doing to prepare the girls?

[Anonymous]

^^ prepare for what? July 1?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused looked zoom. Still not an understanding why the IWLCA wants to move the date other than they know better than us. You speak to different coaches and they can’t give you a good reason other than the COVID. Is it they just don’t want to recruit and there are no spots? Also can someone share what their programs are doing to prepare the girls?

Suspect it may be up the the families and players to educate themselves on what all this means to recruiting and make it all happen. Not to say it doesn't happened, but clubs don't seem to be the biggest help with recruiting. Have not heard of our recruiting coordinator taking time to get to know players, meet with them to understand their strengths that would help them get recruited or communicate any weaknesses their coaches can focus on to improve their games and chances of being recruited. Club just does not seem to have a strategy around this. Don't have a lot of expectations with them preparing DD on this topic or recruiting in general.

[Anonymous]

^^ which club?

[Anonymous]

much is this is pretty irrelevelent too. Multiple D1 coaches have told our club director that they will be taking a much smaller 2022 class (on scholarship at least) and will increase numbers for the 23s. Expect to make lots of "preferred walk on" offers with the ability to earn some $$ once on campus.

[Anonymous]

The NCAA has screwed over multiple classes and players from different sports. As always people use a crisis to always pass things and they are never thought thru.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:much is this is pretty irrelevelent too. Multiple D1 coaches have told our club director that they will be taking a much smaller 2022 class (on scholarship at least) and will increase numbers for the 23s. Expect to make lots of "preferred walk on" offers with the ability to earn some $$ once on campus.

You will find that most parents on this thread dont care about scholarship money. The families on this forum tend to be private school people who see lacrosse as a way to improve their kids chances to get into a great school like an Ivy or a NESCAC. Plus there has never been much $$ in Lacrosse. If you want your kid to get a big athletic scholarship there are much better funded sports in college.

[Anonymous]

No one in Lacrosse thinks they are getting a scholarship, if they know anything about the sport. This is something you think about before your kid specializes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am still confused looked zoom. Still not an understanding why the IWLCA wants to move the date other than they know better than us. You speak to different coaches and they can’t give you a good reason other than the COVID. Is it they just don’t want to recruit and there are no spots? Also can someone share what their programs are doing to prepare the girls?

Suspect it may be up the the families and players to educate themselves on what all this means to recruiting and make it all happen. Not to say it doesn't happened, but clubs don't seem to be the biggest help with recruiting. Have not heard of our recruiting coordinator taking time to get to know players, meet with them to understand their strengths that would help them get recruited or communicate any weaknesses their coaches can focus on to improve their games and chances of being recruited. Club just does not seem to have a strategy around this. Don't have a lot of expectations with them preparing DD on this topic or recruiting in general.

That’s really bad. My club has had a strategy around this since the quarantine started. I could not be happier with the recruitment aspect of our club.

[Anonymous]

You think the NCAA will really move the recruiting date a few days before? At what point does the NCAA realize the decisions they are making have real affects on programs, players and organizations. The message it sends moving the date shows a complete lack of empathy for the players. What message does it send to future players?