Most Overrated High School Cluster

[Anonymous]

I would say that high schools with a non test-in IB program are underrated. Schools like Rockville High, Seneca Valley, Einstein, etc.. Lots of ample opportunities for high achieving students without the pressure cooker environment; and more in line with the diversity of Montgomery County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would say that high schools with a non test-in IB program are underrated. Schools like Rockville High, Seneca Valley, Einstein, etc.. Lots of ample opportunities for high achieving students without the pressure cooker environment; and more in line with the diversity of Montgomery County.

Yeah, my kid is starting at SVHS this year (or at least was supposed to start...), and I'm really excited about the opportunity for an IB diploma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't draw the boudries large enough to pick up measurable poor kids for schools like Churchill, Westland and the like. The Elementary schools are even tighter clusters. The schools that can pick up more poor kids are the schools around poor kids. Careful what you wish for on the east side of the county.

What does "careful what you wish for on the east side of the county" mean? Please explain.

Many of the eastern county schools were also gerrymandered to have some with mostly SFH, some mostly cheap apts. Redefining boundaries in a school like Potomac elementary may fudge 5% of the population due to the complete lack of proximity to any FRAMs or ESOL kids. Schools like Sligo Creek Elementary or Woodlin, slight changes can redefine the entire make up of the school due to the density of the population on that side of the county. Make no mistake, schools like that have way more chances of fundamentally changes than most west county schools with any boundary studies. The western schools aren't that gerrymandered, they didn't have to be and changing them would require deep changes to multiple things. You could flick a pen at Sligo creak and increase its FARMs kids by a factor of 7.

How about fixing the completely bogus New Hampshire Estates boundaries and sending those kids to Takoma Elementary or Flora Singer? My point was don't assume Gerrymandering is unique to the west county when it was more wildly used in the east due to panicked parents over the decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't draw the boudries large enough to pick up measurable poor kids for schools like Churchill, Westland and the like. The Elementary schools are even tighter clusters. The schools that can pick up more poor kids are the schools around poor kids. Careful what you wish for on the east side of the county.

What does "careful what you wish for on the east side of the county" mean? Please explain.

Many of the eastern county schools were also gerrymandered to have some with mostly SFH, some mostly cheap apts. Redefining boundaries in a school like Potomac elementary may fudge 5% of the population due to the complete lack of proximity to any FRAMs or ESOL kids. Schools like Sligo Creek Elementary or Woodlin, slight changes can redefine the entire make up of the school due to the density of the population on that side of the county. Make no mistake, schools like that have way more chances of fundamentally changes than most west county schools with any boundary studies. The western schools aren't that gerrymandered, they didn't have to be and changing them would require deep changes to multiple things. You could flick a pen at Sligo creak and increase its FARMs kids by a factor of 7.

How about fixing the completely bogus New Hampshire Estates boundaries and sending those kids to Takoma Elementary or Flora Singer? My point was don't assume Gerrymandering is unique to the west county when it was more wildly used in the east due to panicked parents over the decades.

Perhaps, those schools are already severely overcrowded and it's the western part of the county that is so egregious. It has a constant array of racial incidents at its segregated schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't draw the boudries large enough to pick up measurable poor kids for schools like Churchill, Westland and the like. The Elementary schools are even tighter clusters. The schools that can pick up more poor kids are the schools around poor kids. Careful what you wish for on the east side of the county.

What does "careful what you wish for on the east side of the county" mean? Please explain.

Many of the eastern county schools were also gerrymandered to have some with mostly SFH, some mostly cheap apts. Redefining boundaries in a school like Potomac elementary may fudge 5% of the population due to the complete lack of proximity to any FRAMs or ESOL kids. Schools like Sligo Creek Elementary or Woodlin, slight changes can redefine the entire make up of the school due to the density of the population on that side of the county. Make no mistake, schools like that have way more chances of fundamentally changes than most west county schools with any boundary studies. The western schools aren't that gerrymandered, they didn't have to be and changing them would require deep changes to multiple things. You could flick a pen at Sligo creak and increase its FARMs kids by a factor of 7.

How about fixing the completely bogus New Hampshire Estates boundaries and sending those kids to Takoma Elementary or Flora Singer? My point was don't assume Gerrymandering is unique to the west county when it was more wildly used in the east due to panicked parents over the decades.

OMG this. For every Garrett Park at the W's there are weird Silver Spring schools that don't even match their neighborhoods let alone the county. Why does Takoma Middle have half the Farms of Eastern?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can't draw the boudries large enough to pick up measurable poor kids for schools like Churchill, Westland and the like. The Elementary schools are even tighter clusters. The schools that can pick up more poor kids are the schools around poor kids. Careful what you wish for on the east side of the county.

What does "careful what you wish for on the east side of the county" mean? Please explain.

Many of the eastern county schools were also gerrymandered to have some with mostly SFH, some mostly cheap apts. Redefining boundaries in a school like Potomac elementary may fudge 5% of the population due to the complete lack of proximity to any FRAMs or ESOL kids. Schools like Sligo Creek Elementary or Woodlin, slight changes can redefine the entire make up of the school due to the density of the population on that side of the county. Make no mistake, schools like that have way more chances of fundamentally changes than most west county schools with any boundary studies. The western schools aren't that gerrymandered, they didn't have to be and changing them would require deep changes to multiple things. You could flick a pen at Sligo creak and increase its FARMs kids by a factor of 7.

How about fixing the completely bogus New Hampshire Estates boundaries and sending those kids to Takoma Elementary or Flora Singer? My point was don't assume Gerrymandering is unique to the west county when it was more wildly used in the east due to panicked parents over the decades.

There might be people who are clamoring to change school boundaries in the western part of the county while opposing any changes to school boundaries in the eastern part of the county, but I have never encountered any. Have you? And if so, how/when/where?

It would be geographically absurd to send kids from New Hampshire Estates ES to Flora Singer ES. Look at a map.

Also, iif the New Hampshire Estates boundaries are completely bogus, so are the Stone Mill ES boundaries and the Seven Locks ES boundaries and the Lakewood ES boundaries and...

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/StoneMillES.pdf
http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/SevenLocksES.pdf
http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/LakewoodES.pdf
http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/NewHampshireEstatesOakViewES.pdf

To say nothing of the

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OMG this. For every Garrett Park at the W's there are weird Silver Spring schools that don't even match their neighborhoods let alone the county. Why does Takoma Middle have half the Farms of Eastern?

Here are the Takoma Park MS boundaries. How would you change them?

http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/TakomaParkMS.pdf

Keeping in mind that kids who are currently walkers should stay walkers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The W schools are predominantly White schools except for Wootton. W schools’ average test scores are higher compared to other schools due to the higher concentration of affluent students (or lower number of underprivileged/FARM students).

RM, with it’s IB program, has smarter students, but their entire school average test scores are lower than W schools since they have much less concentration to affluent (higher underprivileged/FARM students).

Keep in mind that affluent parents spend a lot more money hiring tutors, SAT prep courses, C2 Education, etc.

Not true. Churchill is 47% white.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04602.pdf

For comparison's sake, Wootton is 42% white. https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04234.pdf

Just a reminder to do your own research and not trust what people say on this board.

Data came from here:

CHURCHILL:
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools/winston-churchill-high-9153/student-body

WOOTTON:
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools/thomas-s-wootton-high-9149/student-body

PP, your data is from 2018-2019 school year. The USNEWS data is for 2019-202 school year.

Sorry you lose or should I quote your own words against you: “ Just a reminder to do your own research and not trust what people say on this board.”

Did you actually read what you posted? Did anybody check the link?
The USNEWS data is for the 2017-2018 school year. In fact, USNEWS ranking data is never for the current school year. It is usually two years prior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blair

Blair take way too much pride in a few hundred kids who are mostly bused in and don't reflect the majority of the school be it demographically, scholastically or geographically. They don't put magnet programs in schools without problems. That is fine, just don't pretend you don't have a problem.

Poolesville was about to close due to lack of kids. Blair has the most kids in the county, I wonder what their problem was?

Their "problem"-- in the late 80s when the magnet(s) started-- was that it had very few white kids, thanks to heavy white flight. Montgomery County required that the burden of school integration and bussing not fall unduly on "minorities" so they created programs to draw more white students downcounty.

That's it. That's the whole story.

All of this smarmy "problem" language, for goodness sake. Do you also assume shelter pets are defective?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Blair take way too much pride in a few hundred kids who are mostly bused in and don't reflect the majority of the school be it demographically, scholastically or geographically. They don't put magnet programs in schools without problems. That is fine, just don't pretend you don't have a problem.

Poolesville was about to close due to lack of kids. Blair has the most kids in the county, I wonder what their problem was?

Absolutely. Coldspring ES, for example. Also, Chevy Chase ES. If those aren't schools with problems, I don't know what is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agreed with you, Neighborhood schools don't reflect the county, they reflect the neighborhood. Almost none to none of the schools county wide match the aggregated county statistics. That doesn't mean they are bad it just means that people cluster for a host of reasons with only a few of them being bad. Yes the real money is on the west half of the county and yes most of those people want very little to do with unwashed masses (tongue in cheek). I am not sure how you expect the school system to fix that. My point is while a feel good win for some would be to force poor kids into these schools via long bus rides and what not and it might seem like a win. I am not sure it is a sustainable solution that wont correct it's self in short order or have secondary effects like gentrifying currently affordable close in areas that get designated W aligned. When middle class parents flock to them as the consortium have their FARM and ESOL rates continue to rise in the eastern county, it isn't the rich people pushing the poor people to the side, it is the middle class hogging the life boats.

I don't have much patience with the idea that there are only two options

(1) continue the current boundaries that maintain segregated schools, OR
(2) "force poor kids via long bus rides and whatnot"

The current boundaries were not handed down from Mt. Sinai engraved on stone tablets. In some cases, boundary changes would increase geographic proximity AND decrease segregation.

The rich has the time, money and political connections to influence how school boundaries are drawn.

When Bayard Rustin Elementary school was about to open and MCPS was deciding on what area/neighborhood should be part of this school. Residents from Fallsgrove came out in masses to protest to keep their kids at Ritchie Park ES instead of moving to a lower FARM school. Keep in mind that Fallsgrove community is co prized of $1+ M single homes. Guess where those kids ended up going to school at?

Yes, because RP is closer to FG than BR. FG already passes two ES to get to RP. If they were zoned for BR they would pass three schools. I don't live in FG, but I could understand why they didn't want to move. If MCPS had decided that FG would go to a closer ES than RP, they would've been happy with that, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at that brand new Potomac Elementary school it is surrounded by two million dollar homes, got 2-3 miles away you get 1 million dollar homes, 5-10 miles 500k homes. How far are you willing to bus.

Here's the Potomac ES boundaries: http://gis.mcpsmd.org/ServiceAreaMaps/PotomacES.pdf

If you're ok with that, then you're ok with putting elementary-school kids on buses for 5.3 miles on a direct route.

For comparison - Julius West MS is 5.7 miles from Potomac ES on a direct route.

+1 DP.. look at some of the current boundaries for Churchill cluster. It's ridiculous. Islands everywhere, and several miles long bus ride. Some of then area zoned for Churchill are ot "neighborhood" schools. Far from it. Some of those areas could walk to a school closer to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, because RP is closer to FG than BR. FG already passes two ES to get to RP. If they were zoned for BR they would pass three schools. I don't live in FG, but I could understand why they didn't want to move. If MCPS had decided that FG would go to a closer ES than RP, they would've been happy with that, too.

For example, Rosemont ES - 2.6 miles from Fallsgrove, instead of 3.5 miles to Ritchie Park ES They would have been happy with that! Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blair

Blair take way too much pride in a few hundred kids who are mostly bused in and don't reflect the majority of the school be it demographically, scholastically or geographically. They don't put magnet programs in schools without problems. That is fine, just don't pretend you don't have a problem.

Poolesville was about to close due to lack of kids. Blair has the most kids in the county, I wonder what their problem was?

Their "problem"-- in the late 80s when the magnet(s) started-- was that it had very few white kids, thanks to heavy white flight. Montgomery County required that the burden of school integration and bussing not fall unduly on "minorities" so they created programs to draw more white students downcounty.

That's it. That's the whole story.

All of this smarmy "problem" language, for goodness sake. Do you also assume shelter pets are defective?

The other problem is that high schools also often copied successful programs and initiatives from eachother removing reasons for students to change schools. It’s happening again with IB now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, because RP is closer to FG than BR. FG already passes two ES to get to RP. If they were zoned for BR they would pass three schools. I don't live in FG, but I could understand why they didn't want to move. If MCPS had decided that FG would go to a closer ES than RP, they would've been happy with that, too.

For example, Rosemont ES - 2.6 miles from Fallsgrove, instead of 3.5 miles to Ritchie Park ES They would have been happy with that! Right?

Agreed but MCPS originally had FG slated to BR to better average the FARM numbers. FG belonging to RP is a little weird to understand when there’s an ES practically across the street.