Is BIPOC the new term to use? What happened to just POC?

[Anonymous]

This is a thread that simply demonstrates the complexity of race and diversity in America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband is a blonde haired blue eyed Jew.

You’d think he was a WASP, but he’s 75% Ashkenazi.

Is he white because people perceive him that way?

Of course he is white. He's not WASP, but he's white.

From my understanding (half white, half Asian), POC is largely appearance based. Will you be judged as not white? Will you face judgement for the fact that you are not white? You are a POC. For some people like myself, I think it is somewhat ambiguous. I look Mediterranean (fair, dark eyes/hair) and look "white enough" - I do not self identify as POC despite being mixed, because I am aware that I have privilege in "passing" for white. Someone with ancestry fully from from Sudan, or Bangladesh, or Korea, is almost certainly a POC. Some of us look a little more ambiguous.

If you look white, despite your religion, you are not a POC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t even know how to define “people of color.”

I identify as Jewish-American. When I did 23andme a few years back, it came back as:

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine)
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese)
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian)
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya)

They couldn’t categorize the rest.

Outside of the Norwegian portion, my background is not white, as defined as Anglo-Saxon. I look white in terms of my skin color. I don’t face discrimination based on my skin color, but I do based on my religion.

My mom, uncle, and grandpa were called Japs in NYC in the 1930s-1960s and my grandpa and his brothers were in internment camps here.

On the Jewish side, everyone came here in the 1910s/1920s to escape pogroms in Ukraine and Russia. They all changed their names to anglicize them.

So what the hell am I, in terms of this “POC vs white people” dichotomy?

Fortunately, you don't have to. You know what you identify as. Let other people decide what they identify as.

I know a light skinned, blonde, blue-eyed woman who wants to be identified as Native American. Her mother is 100% Sioux with tribal affiliation, her father is Eastern European. So if you talk to her about race don't assume she's white.

Right — she’s a great example of what I’m talking about. She has every right to identify as Native American, even if the world perceives her as white.

She is absolutely Native American. But she moves through the world differently than someone who looks more stereotypically Native American does. She can identify as Native American and also acknowledge that.

- daughter of a blonde haired, blue eyed black man

So she’s Native American, but I’m white?

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the last 2 weeks, since the BLM protests have started. I’ve seen everyone start to use BIPOC (eg “support BIPOC businesses”, “discrimination against BIPOC”). I looked it up and it means Black Indigenous People of Color.

So does BIPOC not include LatinX, Middle Eastern, and Asian? Is it replacing POC as a way to say those other groups are less discriminated against? Where did the word come from?

Wrong,
Black , Indigenous, People, of Color.
Added the commas, fixed it for you.

What are those commas supposed to tell me exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m confused too. Does this mean black, indigenous people of color, or black, indigenous, AND people of color? As an Asian-American, I assume I’m included in the second but not in the first. I’ve googled and the first two results seem to indicate different things.

This is a definition I found on thebipocproject.org:

“ The BIPOC Project aims to build authentic and lasting solidarity among Black, Indigenous and People of Color (BIPOC), in order to undo Native invisibility, anti-Blackness, dismantle white supremacy and advance racial justice.

“We use the term BIPOC to highlight the unique relationship to whiteness that Indigenous and Black (African Americans) people have, which shapes the experiences of and relationship to white supremacy for all people of color within a U.S. context. We unapologetically focus on and center relationships among BIPOC folks.”

So I think... Asians are included but the term “centers” black & indigenous.

That statement is even more confusing.

If it means its inclusive of all categories, Asians and Hispanics should refer to themselves as BIPOC rather than POC?

If it's supposed to just categorize Blacks with familial ties to American slavery, then maybe just Original Black or Black of original American History (BOAH)? Indigenous Black means there would be Indigenous Whites and that confuses everything with actual Indigenous Native Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t even know how to define “people of color.”

I identify as Jewish-American. When I did 23andme a few years back, it came back as:

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine)
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese)
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian)
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya)

They couldn’t categorize the rest.

Outside of the Norwegian portion, my background is not white, as defined as Anglo-Saxon. I look white in terms of my skin color. I don’t face discrimination based on my skin color, but I do based on my religion.

My mom, uncle, and grandpa were called Japs in NYC in the 1930s-1960s and my grandpa and his brothers were in internment camps here.

On the Jewish side, everyone came here in the 1910s/1920s to escape pogroms in Ukraine and Russia. They all changed their names to anglicize them.

So what the hell am I, in terms of this “POC vs white people” dichotomy?

Fortunately, you don't have to. You know what you identify as. Let other people decide what they identify as.

I know a light skinned, blonde, blue-eyed woman who wants to be identified as Native American. Her mother is 100% Sioux with tribal affiliation, her father is Eastern European. So if you talk to her about race don't assume she's white.

Right — she’s a great example of what I’m talking about. She has every right to identify as Native American, even if the world perceives her as white.

She is absolutely Native American. But she moves through the world differently than someone who looks more stereotypically Native American does. She can identify as Native American and also acknowledge that.

- daughter of a blonde haired, blue eyed black man

So she’s Native American, but I’m white?

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

Libyan is white?

As for Ashkenazi Jews, the fact that we are not WASPs (or white Catholics) has been the basis for genocide in the past. It’s a distinction that has literally been life or death for us on multiple occasions. It’s one of the bases for Neo-Nazis thinking we should die.

That’s why I question whether we are actually white.

[Anonymous]

interesting to note that some local schools that are criticized for being "too white" actually are more diverse but parents default or self select to Caucasian.

Example: Middle Eastern = white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t even know how to define “people of color.”

I identify as Jewish-American. When I did 23andme a few years back, it came back as:

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine)
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese)
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian)
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya)

They couldn’t categorize the rest.

Outside of the Norwegian portion, my background is not white, as defined as Anglo-Saxon. I look white in terms of my skin color. I don’t face discrimination based on my skin color, but I do based on my religion.

My mom, uncle, and grandpa were called Japs in NYC in the 1930s-1960s and my grandpa and his brothers were in internment camps here.

On the Jewish side, everyone came here in the 1910s/1920s to escape pogroms in Ukraine and Russia. They all changed their names to anglicize them.

So what the hell am I, in terms of this “POC vs white people” dichotomy?

Fortunately, you don't have to. You know what you identify as. Let other people decide what they identify as.

I know a light skinned, blonde, blue-eyed woman who wants to be identified as Native American. Her mother is 100% Sioux with tribal affiliation, her father is Eastern European. So if you talk to her about race don't assume she's white.

Right — she’s a great example of what I’m talking about. She has every right to identify as Native American, even if the world perceives her as white.

She is absolutely Native American. But she moves through the world differently than someone who looks more stereotypically Native American does. She can identify as Native American and also acknowledge that.

- daughter of a blonde haired, blue eyed black man

So she’s Native American, but I’m white?

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

Libyan is white?

As for Ashkenazi Jews, the fact that we are not WASPs (or white Catholics) has been the basis for genocide in the past. It’s a distinction that has literally been life or death for us on multiple occasions. It’s one of the bases for Neo-Nazis thinking we should die.

That’s why I question whether we are actually white.

White people don’t view us as white. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked something along the lines of “how do Jews view white people” or “will Jews date white people” or whatever. But black people view us as white. So... shrug

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

Yeah, no. Some nuance here, please. According to the white supremacists, out of all of the people on that list, only the Norwegians are white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

Yeah, no. Some nuance here, please. According to the white supremacists, out of all of the people on that list, only the Norwegians are white.

PP here. Exactly — and that is one reason why Jews are more likely to be victims of hate crimes than any other group, including black people.

But I guess we tend to have .... light skin, so we’re white?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t even know how to define “people of color.”

I identify as Jewish-American. When I did 23andme a few years back, it came back as:

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine)
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese)
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian)
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya)

They couldn’t categorize the rest.

Outside of the Norwegian portion, my background is not white, as defined as Anglo-Saxon. I look white in terms of my skin color. I don’t face discrimination based on my skin color, but I do based on my religion.

My mom, uncle, and grandpa were called Japs in NYC in the 1930s-1960s and my grandpa and his brothers were in internment camps here.

On the Jewish side, everyone came here in the 1910s/1920s to escape pogroms in Ukraine and Russia. They all changed their names to anglicize them.

So what the hell am I, in terms of this “POC vs white people” dichotomy?

Fortunately, you don't have to. You know what you identify as. Let other people decide what they identify as.

I know a light skinned, blonde, blue-eyed woman who wants to be identified as Native American. Her mother is 100% Sioux with tribal affiliation, her father is Eastern European. So if you talk to her about race don't assume she's white.

Right — she’s a great example of what I’m talking about. She has every right to identify as Native American, even if the world perceives her as white.

She is absolutely Native American. But she moves through the world differently than someone who looks more stereotypically Native American does. She can identify as Native American and also acknowledge that.

- daughter of a blonde haired, blue eyed black man

So she’s Native American, but I’m white?

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

Libyan is white?

As for Ashkenazi Jews, the fact that we are not WASPs (or white Catholics) has been the basis for genocide in the past. It’s a distinction that has literally been life or death for us on multiple occasions. It’s one of the bases for Neo-Nazis thinking we should die.

That’s why I question whether we are actually white.

Yes you are white. You are persecuted for your religion, not your skin color. Which is also not okay, but is not part of this topic of white/not white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t even know how to define “people of color.”

I identify as Jewish-American. When I did 23andme a few years back, it came back as:

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine)
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese)
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian)
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya)

They couldn’t categorize the rest.

Outside of the Norwegian portion, my background is not white, as defined as Anglo-Saxon. I look white in terms of my skin color. I don’t face discrimination based on my skin color, but I do based on my religion.

My mom, uncle, and grandpa were called Japs in NYC in the 1930s-1960s and my grandpa and his brothers were in internment camps here.

On the Jewish side, everyone came here in the 1910s/1920s to escape pogroms in Ukraine and Russia. They all changed their names to anglicize them.

So what the hell am I, in terms of this “POC vs white people” dichotomy?

Fortunately, you don't have to. You know what you identify as. Let other people decide what they identify as.

I know a light skinned, blonde, blue-eyed woman who wants to be identified as Native American. Her mother is 100% Sioux with tribal affiliation, her father is Eastern European. So if you talk to her about race don't assume she's white.

Right — she’s a great example of what I’m talking about. She has every right to identify as Native American, even if the world perceives her as white.

She is absolutely Native American. But she moves through the world differently than someone who looks more stereotypically Native American does. She can identify as Native American and also acknowledge that.

- daughter of a blonde haired, blue eyed black man

So she’s Native American, but I’m white?

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

Libyan is white?

As for Ashkenazi Jews, the fact that we are not WASPs (or white Catholics) has been the basis for genocide in the past. It’s a distinction that has literally been life or death for us on multiple occasions. It’s one of the bases for Neo-Nazis thinking we should die.

That’s why I question whether we are actually white.

White people don’t view us as white. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked something along the lines of “how do Jews view white people” or “will Jews date white people” or whatever. But black people view us as white. So... shrug

Yup. My dad’s truck broke down in Harrisonburg, VA in the 80s. A guy picked him up and brought him to a gas station. The guy said “If you was a Jew, I’d have shot you.” The guy had a gun in the bed of his pickup truck.

My dad is pretty obviously Jewish, so it’s amazing he survived that encounter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t even know how to define “people of color.”

I identify as Jewish-American. When I did 23andme a few years back, it came back as:

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine)
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese)
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian)
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya)

They couldn’t categorize the rest.

Outside of the Norwegian portion, my background is not white, as defined as Anglo-Saxon. I look white in terms of my skin color. I don’t face discrimination based on my skin color, but I do based on my religion.

My mom, uncle, and grandpa were called Japs in NYC in the 1930s-1960s and my grandpa and his brothers were in internment camps here.

On the Jewish side, everyone came here in the 1910s/1920s to escape pogroms in Ukraine and Russia. They all changed their names to anglicize them.

So what the hell am I, in terms of this “POC vs white people” dichotomy?

Fortunately, you don't have to. You know what you identify as. Let other people decide what they identify as.

I know a light skinned, blonde, blue-eyed woman who wants to be identified as Native American. Her mother is 100% Sioux with tribal affiliation, her father is Eastern European. So if you talk to her about race don't assume she's white.

Right — she’s a great example of what I’m talking about. She has every right to identify as Native American, even if the world perceives her as white.

She is absolutely Native American. But she moves through the world differently than someone who looks more stereotypically Native American does. She can identify as Native American and also acknowledge that.

- daughter of a blonde haired, blue eyed black man

So she’s Native American, but I’m white?

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

Libyan is white?

As for Ashkenazi Jews, the fact that we are not WASPs (or white Catholics) has been the basis for genocide in the past. It’s a distinction that has literally been life or death for us on multiple occasions. It’s one of the bases for Neo-Nazis thinking we should die.

That’s why I question whether we are actually white.

Yes you are white. You are persecuted for your religion, not your skin color. Which is also not okay, but is not part of this topic of white/not white.

But if you ask a white supremacist—or any anti-Semite—we are expressly NOT white, and that has meant life or death for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

Yeah, no. Some nuance here, please. According to the white supremacists, out of all of the people on that list, only the Norwegians are white.

This is not about how only white supremacists define white. This is according to census like categories of what defines White.

Please stop derailing this thread and start a post about anti-semitism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes!

48% Ashkenazi Jewish (by way of Russia and Ukraine). White
14% Southern European (Italian and Maltese) White
14% Northwestern European (Norwegian) White
13% East Asian (Japanese and Korean)
4% Middle Eastern and North African (probably Libya) White

Yeah, no. Some nuance here, please. According to the white supremacists, out of all of the people on that list, only the Norwegians are white.

PP here. Exactly — and that is one reason why Jews are more likely to be victims of hate crimes than any other group, including black people.

But I guess we tend to have .... light skin, so we’re white?

I honestly don't understand how this is difficult to understand. POC = "person of color." If your skin is white (despite being Jewish, or Muslim, or non-Christian), then you are white (or perhaps white-ish). You are not a Person of Color.

It doesn't mean one may face discrimination because of their religion - they certainly may. But they're still white. Especially if you have lightish hair and eyes.