Is BIPOC the new term to use? What happened to just POC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for that link. I don’t really agree with him. For one, no one I know goes back to slavery in Egypt as the common oppression reference point. For me, and the Jews I know, it’s the Holocaust and the continued anti-Semitism we face. Most of us have relatives who died in the Holocaust and many of us are here because of the Holocaust or the pogroms. It’s far from ancient history. It’s the experience of our parents and grandparents, and our continued problems today.

Second, I don’t agree that Jews were mainstream by the 1950s. We aren’t mainstream now. We are 1% of the population. Elite universities didn’t get rid of their formal Jewish quotas until the 1960s in some cases, and informal discrimination persisted well after that. The movie School Ties is set in the 1950s and is about the anti-Semitism a Jewish kid faces at a private school.

Listen — our experience is much better than Black Americans’ experience, but I think he really misses the mark.

Curious what you thought about the rest of the interview; I thought he was incredibly thoughtful and able to describe Jewish-Black relations and that historical context in a way that wove together delicate social and political issues really well.

In terms of the "mainstream," thing, it's not so much the raw number of Jewish Americans, but the fact that Jews had started to make solid inroads into the power structure of whites in the 1950's, in a way that blacks hadn't been able to access (and many would say, they still haven't been able to access). This article on the Jewish Golden Age in America in the 1950's explains in better detail: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/a-golden-age-for-jews/
"It was not just in terms of their security and social acceptance that contemporaries viewed the postwar era as a golden age for American Jews; prosperity characterized the period as well. By 1955, Jews of East European background had risen “more or less to the level previously achieved by the German Jews,” and economic distinctions between the earlier and later immigrants had largely disappeared."

Discrimination exists for all groups of people and will never fully be zero, unfortunately. There was tremendous anti-Catholic discrimination that JFK had to overcome to secure the democratic nomination in 1960. I just hope we can appreciate each other's experiences for what they are without drawing comparisons between them, and simultaneously distracting from the central message at hand with the protests, which is about black lives in present-day America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for that link. I don’t really agree with him. For one, no one I know goes back to slavery in Egypt as the common oppression reference point. For me, and the Jews I know, it’s the Holocaust and the continued anti-Semitism we face. Most of us have relatives who died in the Holocaust and many of us are here because of the Holocaust or the pogroms. It’s far from ancient history. It’s the experience of our parents and grandparents, and our continued problems today.

Second, I don’t agree that Jews were mainstream by the 1950s. We aren’t mainstream now. We are 1% of the population. Elite universities didn’t get rid of their formal Jewish quotas until the 1960s in some cases, and informal discrimination persisted well after that. The movie School Ties is set in the 1950s and is about the anti-Semitism a Jewish kid faces at a private school.

Listen — our experience is much better than Black Americans’ experience, but I think he really misses the mark.

Curious what you thought about the rest of the interview; I thought he was incredibly thoughtful and able to describe Jewish-Black relations and that historical context in a way that wove together delicate social and political issues really well.

In terms of the "mainstream," thing, it's not so much the raw number of Jewish Americans, but the fact that Jews had started to make solid inroads into the power structure of whites in the 1950's, in a way that blacks hadn't been able to access (and many would say, they still haven't been able to access). This article on the Jewish Golden Age in America in the 1950's explains in better detail: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/a-golden-age-for-jews/
"It was not just in terms of their security and social acceptance that contemporaries viewed the postwar era as a golden age for American Jews; prosperity characterized the period as well. By 1955, Jews of East European background had risen “more or less to the level previously achieved by the German Jews,” and economic distinctions between the earlier and later immigrants had largely disappeared."

Discrimination exists for all groups of people and will never fully be zero, unfortunately. There was tremendous anti-Catholic discrimination that JFK had to overcome to secure the democratic nomination in 1960. I just hope we can appreciate each other's experiences for what they are without drawing comparisons between them, and simultaneously distracting from the central message at hand with the protests, which is about black lives in present-day America.

I agree that Jews have made strides. I have never tried to say our experience is the same, or certainly worse, than Black Americans.

My point in all of this has simply been to say that we still face significant discrimination. I have pushed back against the notion that we are essentially white people, as I think that’s deeply wrong.

We have an odd combination of economic prosperity and some inroads into the system, but also significant discrimination (borne in part from resentment over us having accrued that influence and prosperity). It’s a unique situation that I’d argue doesn’t exist for other minority groups. That doesn’t mean it’s *worse* but it’s difficult to understand.

Also, this thread has been about BIPOC, not solely the protests. I think any discussion of what BIPOC means for any minority group is relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Interestingly, Jews are more likely to be victims of violent hate crimes than Hispanics. They are less likely than Blacks, Muslims, or LGBT individuals. Sadly, LGBT individuals are the most likely to be victims of violent hate crimes. Blacks are 3rd, behind Muslims.

I would be careful about over-interpreting that first piece. Hispanic residents of the United States do not have high levels of trust in law enforcement, and are substantially less likely to report hate crimes than other communities. So, we can say that Jews are more likely to report violent hate crimes than Hispanics, but we don't really have a lot of visibility on whether they are more likely to be victims.

Again, minimizing.

NP, Jewish woman. Actually, by continuing to link and compare your (our) discrimination to blacks, you are minimizing their experience- as also evidenced by all these pages debating the classification of Jewish Americans. This one isn’t about you and it comes across as out of touch and self-centered to draw attention to yourself. My Muslim friend has never felt the need to ever try and compare his experiences with religious discrimination to blacks, and his skin color is darker.

I agree as another Jewish woman (the one who called you embarrassing upthead). The fact that you have continued to dig in on a thread that has nothing to with Jewish people is just a bad look. I hate when my experiences as a Jewish person are minimized also, but this is not the time and place to be having the suffering Olympics with people of color, of which I will continue to strongly assert we are not.

I never tried to compare the experiences. I pushed back against the idea that we are equivalent to white Christians in our experience in this country, which was the strong implication of saying “you’re just white people.” That’s been my sole purpose.

[Anonymous]

“Ms. Frisby said that the most significant part of the acronym was to include Indigenous people, who are also asking for policing to change, in discussions where race is mentioned.
“What we know is, more often than not, they have been pretty much nonexistent in any discussion about race or any discussion or any kinds of things,” she said. “We don’t see any narratives that include them.”

https://www.nytimes.com/article/what-is-bipoc.html#click=https://t.co/8J9zLMZtQL

[Anonymous]

I don't like this acronym and I don't think it works visually. Most likely it will fall out of favor.

For most people, the first thing they think when they see it is BIsexual, or BIpolar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for that link. I don’t really agree with him. For one, no one I know goes back to slavery in Egypt as the common oppression reference point. For me, and the Jews I know, it’s the Holocaust and the continued anti-Semitism we face. Most of us have relatives who died in the Holocaust and many of us are here because of the Holocaust or the pogroms. It’s far from ancient history. It’s the experience of our parents and grandparents, and our continued problems today.

Second, I don’t agree that Jews were mainstream by the 1950s. We aren’t mainstream now. We are 1% of the population. Elite universities didn’t get rid of their formal Jewish quotas until the 1960s in some cases, and informal discrimination persisted well after that. The movie School Ties is set in the 1950s and is about the anti-Semitism a Jewish kid faces at a private school.

Listen — our experience is much better than Black Americans’ experience, but I think he really misses the mark.

Curious what you thought about the rest of the interview; I thought he was incredibly thoughtful and able to describe Jewish-Black relations and that historical context in a way that wove together delicate social and political issues really well.

In terms of the "mainstream," thing, it's not so much the raw number of Jewish Americans, but the fact that Jews had started to make solid inroads into the power structure of whites in the 1950's, in a way that blacks hadn't been able to access (and many would say, they still haven't been able to access). This article on the Jewish Golden Age in America in the 1950's explains in better detail: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/a-golden-age-for-jews/
"It was not just in terms of their security and social acceptance that contemporaries viewed the postwar era as a golden age for American Jews; prosperity characterized the period as well. By 1955, Jews of East European background had risen “more or less to the level previously achieved by the German Jews,” and economic distinctions between the earlier and later immigrants had largely disappeared."

Discrimination exists for all groups of people and will never fully be zero, unfortunately. There was tremendous anti-Catholic discrimination that JFK had to overcome to secure the democratic nomination in 1960. I just hope we can appreciate each other's experiences for what they are without drawing comparisons between them, and simultaneously distracting from the central message at hand with the protests, which is about black lives in present-day America.

Incorrect. Whites and Asians do not face racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when it was preferred to refer to folks as black. Then it was changed to african-american. Than, apparently, we went to black again. I guess BIPOC is the latest iteration.

I'm happy to call people whatever they prefer, but if wish folks would settle on one term.

Only whites are privileged enough to have one term for themselves.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when it was preferred to refer to folks as black. Then it was changed to african-american. Than, apparently, we went to black again. I guess BIPOC is the latest iteration.

I'm happy to call people whatever they prefer, but if wish folks would settle on one term.

Only whites are privileged enough to have one term for themselves.

+1

So honky, cracker, paleface, whitey, white trash are all figments of our imagination?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for that link. I don’t really agree with him. For one, no one I know goes back to slavery in Egypt as the common oppression reference point. For me, and the Jews I know, it’s the Holocaust and the continued anti-Semitism we face. Most of us have relatives who died in the Holocaust and many of us are here because of the Holocaust or the pogroms. It’s far from ancient history. It’s the experience of our parents and grandparents, and our continued problems today.

Second, I don’t agree that Jews were mainstream by the 1950s. We aren’t mainstream now. We are 1% of the population. Elite universities didn’t get rid of their formal Jewish quotas until the 1960s in some cases, and informal discrimination persisted well after that. The movie School Ties is set in the 1950s and is about the anti-Semitism a Jewish kid faces at a private school.

Listen — our experience is much better than Black Americans’ experience, but I think he really misses the mark.

Curious what you thought about the rest of the interview; I thought he was incredibly thoughtful and able to describe Jewish-Black relations and that historical context in a way that wove together delicate social and political issues really well.

In terms of the "mainstream," thing, it's not so much the raw number of Jewish Americans, but the fact that Jews had started to make solid inroads into the power structure of whites in the 1950's, in a way that blacks hadn't been able to access (and many would say, they still haven't been able to access). This article on the Jewish Golden Age in America in the 1950's explains in better detail: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/a-golden-age-for-jews/
"It was not just in terms of their security and social acceptance that contemporaries viewed the postwar era as a golden age for American Jews; prosperity characterized the period as well. By 1955, Jews of East European background had risen “more or less to the level previously achieved by the German Jews,” and economic distinctions between the earlier and later immigrants had largely disappeared."

Discrimination exists for all groups of people and will never fully be zero, unfortunately. There was tremendous anti-Catholic discrimination that JFK had to overcome to secure the democratic nomination in 1960. I just hope we can appreciate each other's experiences for what they are without drawing comparisons between them, and simultaneously distracting from the central message at hand with the protests, which is about black lives in present-day America.

Incorrect. Whites and Asians do not face racism.

They do, from blacks. Particularly Asians. Blacks are virulently racist towards Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somewhat related, can someone explain to me why POC is now a no-no term? Is it because it doesn't center blackness? A black woman who seems to consider herself a spiritual leader on my FaceBook feed announced she was going to unfriend the next person who used the term POC. Why?

I assume because people want to focus on the groups within POC who people thinks continue to suffer most - Black people more than, say, a person of East Asian descent. Both are POC, but I gotta say as a person of East Asian descent I got some dirty looks from black and Hispanic students for showing up to a POC event in college. I assume BIPOC is to prevent stuff like that from happening

But as a Jewish person, I still wouldn’t be accepted.

By all means, show up. In a similar fashion to an non-Jewish Asian college student showing up to Hillel, there might be plenty of questions around what you're hoping to get out of the experience?

But not sure why you're just automatically assuming you wouldn't be accepted.

Because I’ve been told so. It’s from experience.

No snark intended, but...what did you hope to get from the experience? I would probably question the sincerity of your motives if I were a POC because, while you can hide your religion from strangers relatively well, I cannot change my skin color. I would think we would have pretty different experiences and support approaches / strategies to move around in the world as a result.

Do you know the history of Blacks and Jews working together during the civil rights movement in the 60s? I was trying to continue a long history of Jews being allies. Right before MLK spoke at the March on Washington, a Rabbi spoke: https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3814893/amp

I wasn’t welcome. I was told Jews aren’t wanted as allies because we are just white people. I was actually called a white supremacist.

NP. Did you show up and make everything about you, as you have so thoroughly done with this thread about BIPOC? If your responses here are indicative of how you discuss race irl, I can imagine why you were not welcomed.

Not at all.

Here I’m having a conversation. There I listened almost entirely.

You have come across in this thread as self involved and unable to listen to others. I am sorry that you seem to be disappointed that you are not a BIPOC but please stop centering this thread on you. Interested in hearing thoughts from others on the original topic, though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m confused too. Does this mean black, indigenous people of color, or black, indigenous, AND people of color? As an Asian-American, I assume I’m included in the second but not in the first. I’ve googled and the first two results seem to indicate different things.

That's the impression I got from my MCPS training on how to be an Anti Racist Educator. The two new terms in all the trainings from the equity office are BIPOC and White Folx.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when it was preferred to refer to folks as black. Then it was changed to african-american. Than, apparently, we went to black again. I guess BIPOC is the latest iteration.

I'm happy to call people whatever they prefer, but if wish folks would settle on one term.

Quite honestly, I’m fairly young and try to keep up, but it is hard. Same with the LatinX thing.

A very, very small group like the term Latinx. No need to use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for that link. I don’t really agree with him. For one, no one I know goes back to slavery in Egypt as the common oppression reference point. For me, and the Jews I know, it’s the Holocaust and the continued anti-Semitism we face. Most of us have relatives who died in the Holocaust and many of us are here because of the Holocaust or the pogroms. It’s far from ancient history. It’s the experience of our parents and grandparents, and our continued problems today.

Second, I don’t agree that Jews were mainstream by the 1950s. We aren’t mainstream now. We are 1% of the population. Elite universities didn’t get rid of their formal Jewish quotas until the 1960s in some cases, and informal discrimination persisted well after that. The movie School Ties is set in the 1950s and is about the anti-Semitism a Jewish kid faces at a private school.

Listen — our experience is much better than Black Americans’ experience, but I think he really misses the mark.

Curious what you thought about the rest of the interview; I thought he was incredibly thoughtful and able to describe Jewish-Black relations and that historical context in a way that wove together delicate social and political issues really well.

In terms of the "mainstream," thing, it's not so much the raw number of Jewish Americans, but the fact that Jews had started to make solid inroads into the power structure of whites in the 1950's, in a way that blacks hadn't been able to access (and many would say, they still haven't been able to access). This article on the Jewish Golden Age in America in the 1950's explains in better detail: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/a-golden-age-for-jews/
"It was not just in terms of their security and social acceptance that contemporaries viewed the postwar era as a golden age for American Jews; prosperity characterized the period as well. By 1955, Jews of East European background had risen “more or less to the level previously achieved by the German Jews,” and economic distinctions between the earlier and later immigrants had largely disappeared."

Discrimination exists for all groups of people and will never fully be zero, unfortunately. There was tremendous anti-Catholic discrimination that JFK had to overcome to secure the democratic nomination in 1960. I just hope we can appreciate each other's experiences for what they are without drawing comparisons between them, and simultaneously distracting from the central message at hand with the protests, which is about black lives in present-day America.

Incorrect. Whites and Asians do not face racism.

They do, from blacks. Particularly Asians. Blacks are virulently racist towards Asians.

How can you make such an ignorant general statement? You clearly haven’t read the TJ threads in VA schools forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for that link. I don’t really agree with him. For one, no one I know goes back to slavery in Egypt as the common oppression reference point. For me, and the Jews I know, it’s the Holocaust and the continued anti-Semitism we face. Most of us have relatives who died in the Holocaust and many of us are here because of the Holocaust or the pogroms. It’s far from ancient history. It’s the experience of our parents and grandparents, and our continued problems today.

Second, I don’t agree that Jews were mainstream by the 1950s. We aren’t mainstream now. We are 1% of the population. Elite universities didn’t get rid of their formal Jewish quotas until the 1960s in some cases, and informal discrimination persisted well after that. The movie School Ties is set in the 1950s and is about the anti-Semitism a Jewish kid faces at a private school.

Listen — our experience is much better than Black Americans’ experience, but I think he really misses the mark.

Curious what you thought about the rest of the interview; I thought he was incredibly thoughtful and able to describe Jewish-Black relations and that historical context in a way that wove together delicate social and political issues really well.

In terms of the "mainstream," thing, it's not so much the raw number of Jewish Americans, but the fact that Jews had started to make solid inroads into the power structure of whites in the 1950's, in a way that blacks hadn't been able to access (and many would say, they still haven't been able to access). This article on the Jewish Golden Age in America in the 1950's explains in better detail: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/a-golden-age-for-jews/
"It was not just in terms of their security and social acceptance that contemporaries viewed the postwar era as a golden age for American Jews; prosperity characterized the period as well. By 1955, Jews of East European background had risen “more or less to the level previously achieved by the German Jews,” and economic distinctions between the earlier and later immigrants had largely disappeared."

Discrimination exists for all groups of people and will never fully be zero, unfortunately. There was tremendous anti-Catholic discrimination that JFK had to overcome to secure the democratic nomination in 1960. I just hope we can appreciate each other's experiences for what they are without drawing comparisons between them, and simultaneously distracting from the central message at hand with the protests, which is about black lives in present-day America.

Incorrect. Whites and Asians do not face racism.

They do, from blacks. Particularly Asians. Blacks are virulently racist towards Asians.

How can you make such an ignorant general statement? You clearly haven’t read the TJ threads in VA schools forum.

New poster here. This is not so much an East Coast feeling but I have always heard this about California Blacks and Koreans due to the riots in the 90s.

[Anonymous]

The term is stupid, overwrought, and incorrect. They are not “indigenous” to this country, only Native Americans are. It is just a made up term that lefty white people use to show how woke they are.