AP Panic - what's going on with elimination of Ap's at Elite Privates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. I think there's a difference between AP classes and the AP exams. As I understand it, AP classes are taught according to the curriculum developed by the College Board, with the expectation that the class prepares the students for the exam. I think some schools, privates especially, don't want to be locked in to the AP curriculum. They want to be able to teach more creatively, or focus on particular content, or let the students in the particular class go in a direction that interests them, or whatever other reasons/rationale. They may also want to have classes that are beyond the AP curriculum (as designed by the CB) and concerned about colleges thinking that non-AP classes are not the most challenging.

You don't have to take the AP course to take the AP exam. The private schools I am familiar with say that they will support and help any students who want to take the AP exams, they just don't want to be bound by a course syllabus/curriculum that some corporation that makes money off the process developed (well, the schools don't say it that way, but I think that's what they mean).

in other words, you can have it both way -- you can think that AP courses are not the be all end all and still want your kids to take the exams as a measure of their ability, to get college credit, to pass out of intro classes, etc.

And if they don't get the AP credit, they can always say well we didn't prepare them for the AP test. As a former private school parent, I realized that a lot of what privates do is smoke and mirrors to make you think you are getting a better education for your child. Depending on the school, there can be many positives but I don't think superior education is one of them. Different education yes- not superior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my child hadn't gotten into a <10% acceptance school but ended up at her in-state safety, she would have wanted those APs to move her ahead in her classes so that she could double/triple major, graduate early, or otherwise stand out being that she was at a less-selective university.

I don't think it's a good idea for families to say "Oh, Student will be admitted to a top school that doesn't take APs so Student does not need to worry about taking any of those silly tests."

HS now offer 2 years of HS and 2 years of college... try that route to "stand out".

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:http://uvaapplication.blogspot.com/2019/10/course-rigor-and-curriculum-strength.html

There's a whole section about APs in this blog.

Plenty of people want to know how many AP courses a student should take to be competitive in our process. We don't approach applications this way. First of all, not everyone goes to a school with APs as an option.

They also know when you're avoiding the perfectly excellent public schools that do have AP options and instead you're choosing a school that doesn't have it. They would also expect that if the coursework is more vigorous than public school AP classes, then the student should have no problem taking the AP exam to prove their knowledge. Paying $$$$ for private school shows you're not so poor that the exam is unaffordable.

We didn't avoid public school, we chose private HS after public elementary & middle schools. The private school we chose had AP classes up until this year, when they basically just renamed them to "Advanced". The kids are still going to take the AP exams in May. My kid is heading to one of the HYP schools in the fall unhooked, so the school obviously didn't have any issues with the lack of "AP" classes on the transcript.

No hooks besides full pay and private school.

Bitter much? You might want to read up on what need-blind means. And if private school was such a hook then why don't you do it?

Wow, sensitive. Hit a nerve. Looks like the next generation of douche is on track.

Wow bitter AND prejudiced.

Relax. I’m just happy you could buy junior’s way in. Don’t let it bother you. It’s the game and you played it well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I posted here before. I have a dd at Harvard. She took 17 APs (went to a public HS) National AP scholar of course. Private schools don't have the budget to have 2 tracks and offer 23 AP classes. And, you have to post your scores on AP classes on college app. Privates don't want their kids compared to kids who score higher. So just don't offer them. Problem solved.

You have been bought. AP exams is a corrupt Billion $$ business and those that are actually intelligent won't play their BS game anymore.

AP Tests are not easy. I don’t put my kids in them for the credit though that’s nice. It’s a way to gauge the rigor of the classes my DD is taking. 100 dollars is a small price to pay for verification of the quality of her school.

Not a good test of quality of coursework. More an indicator of quantity of info exposed to and recognition of need/willingness to write to a formula.

BS

I’ve taught at two T10 Unis, attended a third and sent my kid to a fourth. Also spent years involved with training HS teachers. I know what I’m talking about wrt this issue.

[Anonymous]

When I was in HS, I went to a private HS that had three tracks: Honors, AP, and regular. The rigor and depth taught in each class reflected that order: Honors was considered more expansive and challenging than AP, which was only focused on passing the AP test.

I don't know why people are so hell-bent on APs. I thought it was pretty well-known that they aren't much of a signal of anything other than test-taking prep. Certainly I have been hearing more often that college admissions aren't universally thrilled with admitting kids who are taking endless APs. Read College Confidential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in HS, I went to a private HS that had three tracks: Honors, AP, and regular. The rigor and depth taught in each class reflected that order: Honors was considered more expansive and challenging than AP, which was only focused on passing the AP test.

I don't know why people are so hell-bent on APs. I thought it was pretty well-known that they aren't much of a signal of anything other than test-taking prep. Certainly I have been hearing more often that college admissions aren't universally thrilled with admitting kids who are taking endless APs. Read College Confidential.

It’s been explained ten times here but you don’t get it. Pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was in HS, I went to a private HS that had three tracks: Honors, AP, and regular. The rigor and depth taught in each class reflected that order: Honors was considered more expansive and challenging than AP, which was only focused on passing the AP test.

I don't know why people are so hell-bent on APs. I thought it was pretty well-known that they aren't much of a signal of anything other than test-taking prep. Certainly I have been hearing more often that college admissions aren't universally thrilled with admitting kids who are taking endless APs. Read College Confidential.

It’s been explained ten times here but you don’t get it. Pointless.

Sure, college credit at some universities. But I haven't seen anything to persuade me that AP courses are anything other than glorified Kaplan test prep courses.

[Anonymous]

It's not just the DC area top privates that are getting rid of AP courses. Andover, Exeter, and other well-known privates got rid of them a few years ago. And it isn't like kids are all taking AP tests on the side. AP courses aren't offered, and no one is encouraged to take AP tests. Particularly ironic, given that Andover faculty helped design the original AP program fifty-plus years ago.

Kind of like how Bill Gates funded the campaign that resulted in the scourge of constant testing and retesting in public schools, but then has his own kids in a nice progressive private school in Seattle that basically doesn't test at all. By the way, the private school where he and his kids went also doesn't have any AP classes. I'm guessing he and Melinda have a good laugh at how they have screwed up the education of tens of millions of public school students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was in HS, I went to a private HS that had three tracks: Honors, AP, and regular. The rigor and depth taught in each class reflected that order: Honors was considered more expansive and challenging than AP, which was only focused on passing the AP test.

I don't know why people are so hell-bent on APs. I thought it was pretty well-known that they aren't much of a signal of anything other than test-taking prep. Certainly I have been hearing more often that college admissions aren't universally thrilled with admitting kids who are taking endless APs. Read College Confidential.

It’s been explained ten times here but you don’t get it. Pointless.

Sure, college credit at some universities. But I haven't seen anything to persuade me that AP courses are anything other than glorified Kaplan test prep courses.

No no no. It’s about demonstrated self-selection of highest course rigor. Credit and placement is fine, but it’s about signaling to the college ‘I took the hardest classes’. At our school it’s AP’s. At others it’s IB. At many privates (I’m reading) it’s something else entirely. Many colleges have told us directly ‘we expect you to take the hardest courses’. My DC wants the kind of colleges that demand them so that’s what we’re doing. It’s either that or move!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not just the DC area top privates that are getting rid of AP courses. Andover, Exeter, and other well-known privates got rid of them a few years ago. And it isn't like kids are all taking AP tests on the side. AP courses aren't offered, and no one is encouraged to take AP tests. Particularly ironic, given that Andover faculty helped design the original AP program fifty-plus years ago.

Kind of like how Bill Gates funded the campaign that resulted in the scourge of constant testing and retesting in public schools, but then has his own kids in a nice progressive private school in Seattle that basically doesn't test at all. By the way, the private school where he and his kids went also doesn't have any AP classes. I'm guessing he and Melinda have a good laugh at how they have screwed up the education of tens of millions of public school students.

Are there different tracks at privates? Are there kids taking the hardest courses while others self-select a less ambitious program? And if so is there a correlation between those choices and where they gain admission?

[Anonymous]

My kid’s private school offers regular, honors and AP courses. Most students take regular courses as freshman with some taking a few honors. If they do well in honors (B or above) they can take an AP course in that area if one is offered. Not many AP courses are offered until 11th grade. Even the regular courses are college prep. They do offer a remedial type math class in 9th and 10th grade which is probably the equivalent of a regular class in public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just the DC area top privates that are getting rid of AP courses. Andover, Exeter, and other well-known privates got rid of them a few years ago. And it isn't like kids are all taking AP tests on the side. AP courses aren't offered, and no one is encouraged to take AP tests. Particularly ironic, given that Andover faculty helped design the original AP program fifty-plus years ago.

Kind of like how Bill Gates funded the campaign that resulted in the scourge of constant testing and retesting in public schools, but then has his own kids in a nice progressive private school in Seattle that basically doesn't test at all. By the way, the private school where he and his kids went also doesn't have any AP classes. I'm guessing he and Melinda have a good laugh at how they have screwed up the education of tens of millions of public school students.

Are there different tracks at privates? Are there kids taking the hardest courses while others self-select a less ambitious program? And if so is there a correlation between those choices and where they gain admission?

Yes, there are different tracks and levels of courses.

I think privates are getting rid of APs because colleges say they want students to take the most rigorous classes their schools offer. If that's an AP class, over which the school has little control of the content and teaching, the private schools are not very different from public schools. the most rigorous class the private school kid is taking is also the most rigorous course the public school kid is taking.

So why pay tuition (and I say that as a private school parent)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I think there's a difference between AP classes and the AP exams. As I understand it, AP classes are taught according to the curriculum developed by the College Board, with the expectation that the class prepares the students for the exam. I think some schools, privates especially, don't want to be locked in to the AP curriculum. They want to be able to teach more creatively, or focus on particular content, or let the students in the particular class go in a direction that interests them, or whatever other reasons/rationale. They may also want to have classes that are beyond the AP curriculum (as designed by the CB) and concerned about colleges thinking that non-AP classes are not the most challenging.

You don't have to take the AP course to take the AP exam. The private schools I am familiar with say that they will support and help any students who want to take the AP exams, they just don't want to be bound by a course syllabus/curriculum that some corporation that makes money off the process developed (well, the schools don't say it that way, but I think that's what they mean).

in other words, you can have it both way -- you can think that AP courses are not the be all end all and still want your kids to take the exams as a measure of their ability, to get college credit, to pass out of intro classes, etc.

And if they don't get the AP credit, they can always say well we didn't prepare them for the AP test. As a former private school parent, I realized that a lot of what privates do is smoke and mirrors to make you think you are getting a better education for your child. Depending on the school, there can be many positives but I don't think superior education is one of them. Different education yes- not superior.

Having 1 in private and 2 in public, I disagree with you. I mean my DD goes to a top 5 so maybe that is a difference. Her schooling is much more learning. Lots of depth. Study skills class. Public speaking, more health class. More PE, more art, more music, more happy teachers, less disruptive kids, so many less disruptive kids, small class sizes (max at 15) involved families, more writing, so much more written feedback, more debates, more analogies with history and current events, more field trips, hands on science, and just an overwhelming positive learning environment. The kids like school.

My 2 public school kids hate school. Hate their teachers. Don’t understand a lot of their HW. Get frustrated by the ridiculous amount of testing. Every sheet comes home with only a grade. No written suggestions or comments. No corrections. It just isn’t close by a long shot. I would love for all 3 to be in private, but I can not afford it. One needs it do much more. Sucks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just the DC area top privates that are getting rid of AP courses. Andover, Exeter, and other well-known privates got rid of them a few years ago. And it isn't like kids are all taking AP tests on the side. AP courses aren't offered, and no one is encouraged to take AP tests. Particularly ironic, given that Andover faculty helped design the original AP program fifty-plus years ago.

Kind of like how Bill Gates funded the campaign that resulted in the scourge of constant testing and retesting in public schools, but then has his own kids in a nice progressive private school in Seattle that basically doesn't test at all. By the way, the private school where he and his kids went also doesn't have any AP classes. I'm guessing he and Melinda have a good laugh at how they have screwed up the education of tens of millions of public school students.

Are there different tracks at privates? Are there kids taking the hardest courses while others self-select a less ambitious program? And if so is there a correlation between those choices and where they gain admission?

Yes on tracks
Not always on correlation.


Top white kid on FA isn’t going to get into the same school that a minority or legacy would. That can be frustrating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I think there's a difference between AP classes and the AP exams. As I understand it, AP classes are taught according to the curriculum developed by the College Board, with the expectation that the class prepares the students for the exam. I think some schools, privates especially, don't want to be locked in to the AP curriculum. They want to be able to teach more creatively, or focus on particular content, or let the students in the particular class go in a direction that interests them, or whatever other reasons/rationale. They may also want to have classes that are beyond the AP curriculum (as designed by the CB) and concerned about colleges thinking that non-AP classes are not the most challenging.

You don't have to take the AP course to take the AP exam. The private schools I am familiar with say that they will support and help any students who want to take the AP exams, they just don't want to be bound by a course syllabus/curriculum that some corporation that makes money off the process developed (well, the schools don't say it that way, but I think that's what they mean).

in other words, you can have it both way -- you can think that AP courses are not the be all end all and still want your kids to take the exams as a measure of their ability, to get college credit, to pass out of intro classes, etc.

And if they don't get the AP credit, they can always say well we didn't prepare them for the AP test. As a former private school parent, I realized that a lot of what privates do is smoke and mirrors to make you think you are getting a better education for your child. Depending on the school, there can be many positives but I don't think superior education is one of them. Different education yes- not superior.

Having 1 in private and 2 in public, I disagree with you. I mean my DD goes to a top 5 so maybe that is a difference. Her schooling is much more learning. Lots of depth. Study skills class. Public speaking, more health class. More PE, more art, more music, more happy teachers, less disruptive kids, so many less disruptive kids, small class sizes (max at 15) involved families, more writing, so much more written feedback, more debates, more analogies with history and current events, more field trips, hands on science, and just an overwhelming positive learning environment. The kids like school.

My 2 public school kids hate school. Hate their teachers. Don’t understand a lot of their HW. Get frustrated by the ridiculous amount of testing. Every sheet comes home with only a grade. No written suggestions or comments. No corrections. It just isn’t close by a long shot. I would love for all 3 to be in private, but I can not afford it. One needs it do much more. Sucks

Wow, what a complete nutjob. Can’t imagine there will be any resentment in this household. Just...letting two be miserable while you pour piles of money on the one. Holy crap you take the cake here and that isn’t easy.