Duke vs. UVA (In-State)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

Maybe. But coddled enough that they graduate at a rate higher than any other public university and on par with the top private schools in the country. (Higher than Duke btw.)

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Duke is definitely more prestigious, and its alumni connections would likely reflect that. That is a consideration IMO for throughout one’s career. Also, facilities at a private university are going to be superior to a state school, even one as good as UVA. If you can swing it financially, I’d go with Duke.

Ehh....

Growing up in the fancy private school world in Baltimore, Duke and UVA were close enough in prestige. UVA was, and I'm sure it is, very popular even as an OOS option for affluent preppy southern-leaning families and all their UVA bound kids go into finance or law or investment management and do extremely well in life. Duke had some preppies, but also an equal amount of dorkies.

There's quite a few UVA alums working on Wall Street. UVA is very respected and has a long history. Duke alum circles aren't particularly more impressive especially outside the mid-Atlantic. I wouldn't pay to go to Duke if UVA was the in-state option unless money was absolutely no issue whatsoever.

FYI I went to an Ivy. The notion of prestige really greatly drops after your first post-Ivy job. Only HYP, and even then I'd argue only Harvard, can carry you further simply based on the school name.

You can talk around this all you want, but at the same price point (OOS for UVA), Duke is very highly favored over UVA among cross-admits. Parchment has it at 82% Duke to 18% UVA. Assuming the in-state component of this is more favorable to UVA, probably 9 out of 10 or more may prefer Duke over UVA. It is only the price differential for in-state applicants that puts this in a different context.

How often is the higher ranked school NOT favored among cross-admits? Almost never happens. That didn't seem to be the OP's question. They were asking whether the cost premium for Duke is worth the "favored"/prestige premium. To me, that's a personal finance question. But if I faced that decision, I'd steer to UVA.

You actually see that all the time. Harvard and Stanford are favored overall over all others in cross-admits, yet Princeton has been top ranked in USNWR for quite a while. I was providing a data point questioning the assertion in bold above (that UVA and Duke are close in prestige). I then when on to say that it is the price differential for in-state that makes this a discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

Maybe. But coddled enough that they graduate at a rate higher than any other public university and on par with the top private schools in the country. (Higher than Duke btw.)

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

Perhaps, but getting through UVA in 4 years isn't the same as getting through MIT in 4 years. Duke also has a much higher percentage in STEM than UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what you are saying about business and law school rankings. Your kid will be an undergrad and here are some considerations:

1. UVA has an undergrad business program, which you apply to as an undergrad for the last two years. Duke actually does not have any undergrad business.

2. Not sure what law has to do with it. Law isn't an undergrad major and if you want to go to a good law school, get a good LSAT score and a good GPA in anything.

But UVA offers an Honors seminar program in politics (if you can get into it) and a major in Politics, Philosophy and the Law. It's law school is one of the most selective in the nation. My DS's roommate got into Duke Law but not UVA.

So what?

The PP says "not sure what law has to do with it . . Law isn't and undergrad major". PP was answering the question. Also, it's more difficult statistically to get into UVA law than Duke. UVA feeds into UVA Law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

Maybe. But coddled enough that they graduate at a rate higher than any other public university and on par with the top private schools in the country. (Higher than Duke btw.)

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/highest-grad-rate

Perhaps, but getting through UVA in 4 years isn't the same as getting through MIT in 4 years. Duke also has a much higher percentage in STEM than UVA.

why not?

[Anonymous]

UVA is more like 13th grade judging from my DC's friends. They are all still hanging out with the same people they did in high school. Duke would allow your DC to meet people from all over the US and the world. But kids from the WDC area are already pretty worldly, so it depends on your kid, what connections they have now, and their future plans.

I would not encourage anyone to go to Duke however after what the Gang of 88 did. There's a Town and Gown problem in Durham, but there's also a faculty vs. student problem. I can't speak for UVA, but my DC chose their school based on how supportive and encouraging the faculty members were at accepted students' weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UVA is more like 13th grade judging from my DC's friends. They are all still hanging out with the same people they did in high school. Duke would allow your DC to meet people from all over the US and the world. But kids from the WDC area are already pretty worldly, so it depends on your kid, what connections they have now, and their future plans.

I would not encourage anyone to go to Duke however after what the Gang of 88 did. There's a Town and Gown problem in Durham, but there's also a faculty vs. student problem. I can't speak for UVA, but my DC chose their school based on how supportive and encouraging the faculty members were at accepted students' weekend.

Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose kid didn't get into UVA. I had two kids who went there, and yes they kept their high school friends and still do, but none of those friends actually went to UVA. My kids simply enjoyed high school and were extroverted with lots of friends -- the type of kids who end up thriving at UVA. They made other good friends there, from all over the country and world in fact.

[Anonymous]

PP here. Plus how do you know exactly who your kid's friends are hanging out with after high school anyway? That's odd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Duke is definitely more prestigious, and its alumni connections would likely reflect that. That is a consideration IMO for throughout one’s career. Also, facilities at a private university are going to be superior to a state school, even one as good as UVA. If you can swing it financially, I’d go with Duke.

Ehh....

Growing up in the fancy private school world in Baltimore, Duke and UVA were close enough in prestige. UVA was, and I'm sure it is, very popular even as an OOS option for affluent preppy southern-leaning families and all their UVA bound kids go into finance or law or investment management and do extremely well in life. Duke had some preppies, but also an equal amount of dorkies.

There's quite a few UVA alums working on Wall Street. UVA is very respected and has a long history. Duke alum circles aren't particularly more impressive especially outside the mid-Atlantic. I wouldn't pay to go to Duke if UVA was the in-state option unless money was absolutely no issue whatsoever.

FYI I went to an Ivy. The notion of prestige really greatly drops after your first post-Ivy job. Only HYP, and even then I'd argue only Harvard, can carry you further simply based on the school name.

You can talk around this all you want, but at the same price point (OOS for UVA), Duke is very highly favored over UVA among cross-admits. Parchment has it at 82% Duke to 18% UVA. Assuming the in-state component of this is more favorable to UVA, probably 9 out of 10 or more may prefer Duke over UVA. It is only the price differential for in-state applicants that puts this in a different context.

You can talk about this all YOU want, but the fact -- assuming that it's a fact -- that at the same price point high school seniors are highly likely to choose Duke over UVA doesn't mean that the schools aren't considered peers on Wall Street or when it comes to law or business more generally.

UVA is public school Duke.

You took something that does have some factual backing (Parchment cross-admit data showing Duke is widely favored over UVA) and questioned it, then turned around and made a completely unsubstantiated claim that Duke and UVA are considered peers on Wall Street. Ironic, don't you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what you are saying about business and law school rankings. Your kid will be an undergrad and here are some considerations:

1. UVA has an undergrad business program, which you apply to as an undergrad for the last two years. Duke actually does not have any undergrad business.

2. Not sure what law has to do with it. Law isn't an undergrad major and if you want to go to a good law school, get a good LSAT score and a good GPA in anything.

But UVA offers an Honors seminar program in politics (if you can get into it) and a major in Politics, Philosophy and the Law. It's law school is one of the most selective in the nation. My DS's roommate got into Duke Law but not UVA.

So what?

The PP says "not sure what law has to do with it . . Law isn't and undergrad major". PP was answering the question. Also, it's more difficult statistically to get into UVA law than Duke. UVA feeds into UVA Law.

Princeton doesn't have a law school so those poor bastard undergraduates stand no change of going to law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. Plus how do you know exactly who your kid's friends are hanging out with after high school anyway? That's odd.

Because my kid says "I'm glad I'm going to XYZ University and one of the reasons is all the new interesting people I've met from all over the place. When I check Instagram I can't even tell that my friends from UVA went to college because their pictures look exactly like the ones they had in high school."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is more like 13th grade judging from my DC's friends. They are all still hanging out with the same people they did in high school. Duke would allow your DC to meet people from all over the US and the world. But kids from the WDC area are already pretty worldly, so it depends on your kid, what connections they have now, and their future plans.

I would not encourage anyone to go to Duke however after what the Gang of 88 did. There's a Town and Gown problem in Durham, but there's also a faculty vs. student problem. I can't speak for UVA, but my DC chose their school based on how supportive and encouraging the faculty members were at accepted students' weekend.

Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose kid didn't get into UVA. I had two kids who went there, and yes they kept their high school friends and still do, but none of those friends actually went to UVA. My kids simply enjoyed high school and were extroverted with lots of friends -- the type of kids who end up thriving at UVA. They made other good friends there, from all over the country and world in fact.

Hahaha no my kid refused to apply to UVA -- to preppy and white.

Glad your kid is having a good experience there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is more like 13th grade judging from my DC's friends. They are all still hanging out with the same people they did in high school. Duke would allow your DC to meet people from all over the US and the world. But kids from the WDC area are already pretty worldly, so it depends on your kid, what connections they have now, and their future plans.

I would not encourage anyone to go to Duke however after what the Gang of 88 did. There's a Town and Gown problem in Durham, but there's also a faculty vs. student problem. I can't speak for UVA, but my DC chose their school based on how supportive and encouraging the faculty members were at accepted students' weekend.

Sounds like sour grapes from someone whose kid didn't get into UVA. I had two kids who went there, and yes they kept their high school friends and still do, but none of those friends actually went to UVA. My kids simply enjoyed high school and were extroverted with lots of friends -- the type of kids who end up thriving at UVA. They made other good friends there, from all over the country and world in fact.

Exactly. my fourth year UVA student never sees any of his high school friends and I do ask "What's up with so and so?". They never cross paths. The 13th year of high school myth is exactly that. Maybe if you went to TJ but so few get in from Nova schools that it's highly unlikely a bunch of kids are going to show up from your high school and be best buds. None of my DS's friends at UVA were in high school with him. Many are OOS or international.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand what you are saying about business and law school rankings. Your kid will be an undergrad and here are some considerations:

1. UVA has an undergrad business program, which you apply to as an undergrad for the last two years. Duke actually does not have any undergrad business.

2. Not sure what law has to do with it. Law isn't an undergrad major and if you want to go to a good law school, get a good LSAT score and a good GPA in anything.

But UVA offers an Honors seminar program in politics (if you can get into it) and a major in Politics, Philosophy and the Law. It's law school is one of the most selective in the nation. My DS's roommate got into Duke Law but not UVA.

So what?

The PP says "not sure what law has to do with it . . Law isn't and undergrad major". PP was answering the question. Also, it's more difficult statistically to get into UVA law than Duke. UVA feeds into UVA Law.

Princeton doesn't have a law school so those poor bastard undergraduates stand no change of going to law school.

I know you are being sarcastic but Princeton grads do have a problem with that because of PRinceton's grade deflation. the T-14 law schools are looking at GPA to report. They know Princeton grades hard but when it comes to taking someone with a 4.0 from a SLAC v. a 3.32 from Princeton, most schools trying to climb that rankings list will go with the 4.0.

[Anonymous]

^^source?