Duke vs. UVA (In-State)?

[Anonymous]

The student bodies are quite different. For example UVA is a prime destination of TJ families who want to save money. Duke is a prime destination of private high school families. You go to Duke you learn about that crew. You go to UVA and you spend your life in polite discussions about "the best state universities." Both are great.

[Anonymous]

Bottomline, Is $200 - 250K extra over 4 years ($43K per year extra + additional travel+ Duke preppy effect on spending) worth the perceived benefits of going to Duke?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bottomline, Is $200 - 250K extra over 4 years ($43K per year extra + additional travel+ Duke preppy effect on spending) worth the perceived benefits of going to Duke?

List price and net price may be two different matters. Many (wealthy) privates offer good aid to relatively high income level families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS from a private VA high school has applied to UVA EA (non-binding) and is applying to Duke RD. Very strong stats and leadership in ECs. (Very likely admit to UVA, and counselor, who knows Duke well, is strongly encouraging application to Duke.) Interested in business or pre-law. Doesn't want to go North. These are the two top choices.

Given the dramatic difference in cost of attendance ($78k Duke vs. $35K UVA), is there any good reason to attend Duke over UVA? We will be paying from moderate savings and then out of pocket as we go.

Duke is certainly ranked higher, but the "prestige" factor between the schools in the mid-Atlantic area seems to be minimal. Duke is smaller. Both seem to be pretty "preppy" and greek-oriented. Both seem very sports-focused, which is important to DS. They have similarly ranked business and law programs.

I get paying a premium for HYPSM. But, in your opinion or experience, is Duke worth a similar premium?

I imagine a number of posters will say, "wait and see if you have the problem first." I get that. But I also might preempt excessive exuberance for Duke by talking about the cost difference with DS now.

Anyone else face this one before?

This has been faced many times. Everyone should form their view based on their financial circumstances and if it will make a difference given their intended career path. (But they should also keep in mind many if not most change career and major paths.)

I would disagree that prestige is similar, even in the mid-Atlantic. Duke is generally regarded below HYPSM in prestige but above UVA and similar schools in my experience. That said, I think the prestige factor is often overrated. Medical school and law school are really numbers based, for instance. You have to have high GPA and high MCAT/LSAT to get in. I believe Duke will have higher representation at good graduate schools than UVA on a per capita basis, and you might try to attribute that to prestige, but I would argue that it is predominately a function of the students. Students who are admitted to Duke are, on average, going to score higher on MCAT/LSAT than UVA students and it has nothing to do with what the schools provided. Duke students will have had higher SAT scores, on average, and that aptitude carries over to other tests like MCAT/LSAT. If you take the same person and put them through UVA and Duke, their stats will probably be very similar, and therefore also their chances of medical and law admission. Perhaps at top graduate schools, prestige will be the tie breaker, but that is pretty rarified territory.

The bottom line is that if this student is good enough to be admitted to Duke, then for purposes of law of business it makes no difference as a practical matter whether he goes there or to UVA. Yes, Duke is ranked higher, but it isn't Harvard. At the graduate/law school admissions level, the schools are considered peers. They don't split hairs the way that college obsessed parents do. UVA, Duke, Vanderblit, Rice, Emory, Notre Dame, Georgetown, etc., are all considered the same.

No they are not. Rice and Duke eclipse UVA. But that’s not a reason to go to those places over instate UVA, especially if you are Echols.

Duke and Rice may eclipse UVA, as you say, but the difference is not dramatic enough for grad schools to care. They are absolutely considered peer schools.

If you have a 99th percentile LSAT and really high GPA, you'll be in a strong position regardless of where you went to college. Stats are the most important. Yale Law maintains its prestige by having the highest LSAT, not by the percentage of kids from Duke vs. UVA. The thing is the most selective schools are going to produce a higher percentage of graduates with high stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottomline, Is $200 - 250K extra over 4 years ($43K per year extra + additional travel+ Duke preppy effect on spending) worth the perceived benefits of going to Duke?

List price and net price may be two different matters. Many (wealthy) privates offer good aid to relatively high income level families.

Have not heard of Duke offering good aid at high income levels. Would be interesting to see if that is common now. They might need to in order to compete with non-HYPS Ivies, Chicago, Northwestern, Vandy, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The student bodies are quite different. For example UVA is a prime destination of TJ families who want to save money. Duke is a prime destination of private high school families. You go to Duke you learn about that crew. You go to UVA and you spend your life in polite discussions about "the best state universities." Both are great.

So much anti-TJ venom on DCUM. The majority of undergraduate students at both schools went to public schools. The difference is not that dramatic. And while many TJ students do go to UVA, they still account for only a tiny fraction of the class. I had two kids who went to UVA and neither knew anyone from TJ.

[Anonymous]

Did you run the NPC or the myintuition calculator? I don’t mean to be rude or snarky at all but admissions these days can be a lottery! I have heard a few admissions horror stories from the class of 2023.

[Anonymous]

Definitely not worth it at the current cost difference. And I went to Duke!

[Anonymous]

I went to Duke, I absolutely loved it, and the opportunities it provided pulled me out of lower middle class to UMC. Yes, it paved my way for the crucial entry years of my career. After that no one cares. No one. If my kid got into both with no financial aid I would push UVA and help him buy a starter home with the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Plenty of reasons.

It is really for you to decide if a private education is worth it.

I think the OP is maybe looking for others who have faced this specific scenario. We did. In state DD accepted to both Duke and UVA, and denied at Brown and Penn. Duke ultimately seemed like a smaller UVA. Very similar students and surprisingly similar vibe on campus. For its high ranking, Duke vibe did not seem as academic or intellectual as Brown or Penn. Brown was DS first choice. We looked closely at placement into top-tier law schools and found that Duke and UVA had very similar outcomes. DD ultimately went to UVA because we could not justify the cost difference--and cost was a factor. DD has loved UVA and found that it doesn't feel big after your first year. Has had a wonderful experience.

[Anonymous]

I went to UVA and loved it. My friend who attended Duke loved it too, but his/her family could pay out of pocket. I wouldn’t get loans for that tiny bump in prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to UVA and loved it. My friend who attended Duke loved it too, but his/her family could pay out of pocket. I wouldn’t get loans for that tiny bump in prestige.

Graduates from both schools seem to love their experience and remain very loyal to their school. They also seem to be very successful in various fields--particularly business and law. Can't lose with either of those choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottomline, Is $200 - 250K extra over 4 years ($43K per year extra + additional travel+ Duke preppy effect on spending) worth the perceived benefits of going to Duke?

List price and net price may be two different matters. Many (wealthy) privates offer good aid to relatively high income level families.

Have not heard of Duke offering good aid at high income levels. Would be interesting to see if that is common now. They might need to in order to compete with non-HYPS Ivies, Chicago, Northwestern, Vandy, etc.

Here is Princeton as an example: https://admission.princeton.edu/cost-aid/how-princetons-aid-program-works

Duke is not as wealthy as Princeton is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The student bodies are quite different. For example UVA is a prime destination of TJ families who want to save money. Duke is a prime destination of private high school families. You go to Duke you learn about that crew. You go to UVA and you spend your life in polite discussions about "the best state universities." Both are great.

So much anti-TJ venom on DCUM. The majority of undergraduate students at both schools went to public schools. The difference is not that dramatic. And while many TJ students do go to UVA, they still account for only a tiny fraction of the class. I had two kids who went to UVA and neither knew anyone from TJ.

TJ would probably be less than 2% of undergrad enrollment at UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS from a private VA high school has applied to UVA EA (non-binding) and is applying to Duke RD. Very strong stats and leadership in ECs. (Very likely admit to UVA, and counselor, who knows Duke well, is strongly encouraging application to Duke.) Interested in business or pre-law. Doesn't want to go North. These are the two top choices.

Given the dramatic difference in cost of attendance ($78k Duke vs. $35K UVA), is there any good reason to attend Duke over UVA? We will be paying from moderate savings and then out of pocket as we go.

Duke is certainly ranked higher, but the "prestige" factor between the schools in the mid-Atlantic area seems to be minimal. Duke is smaller. Both seem to be pretty "preppy" and greek-oriented. Both seem very sports-focused, which is important to DS. They have similarly ranked business and law programs.

I get paying a premium for HYPSM. But, in your opinion or experience, is Duke worth a similar premium?

I imagine a number of posters will say, "wait and see if you have the problem first." I get that. But I also might preempt excessive exuberance for Duke by talking about the cost difference with DS now.

Anyone else face this one before?

This has been faced many times. Everyone should form their view based on their financial circumstances and if it will make a difference given their intended career path. (But they should also keep in mind many if not most change career and major paths.)

I would disagree that prestige is similar, even in the mid-Atlantic. Duke is generally regarded below HYPSM in prestige but above UVA and similar schools in my experience. That said, I think the prestige factor is often overrated. Medical school and law school are really numbers based, for instance. You have to have high GPA and high MCAT/LSAT to get in. I believe Duke will have higher representation at good graduate schools than UVA on a per capita basis, and you might try to attribute that to prestige, but I would argue that it is predominately a function of the students. Students who are admitted to Duke are, on average, going to score higher on MCAT/LSAT than UVA students and it has nothing to do with what the schools provided. Duke students will have had higher SAT scores, on average, and that aptitude carries over to other tests like MCAT/LSAT. If you take the same person and put them through UVA and Duke, their stats will probably be very similar, and therefore also their chances of medical and law admission. Perhaps at top graduate schools, prestige will be the tie breaker, but that is pretty rarified territory.

The bottom line is that if this student is good enough to be admitted to Duke, then for purposes of law of business it makes no difference as a practical matter whether he goes there or to UVA. Yes, Duke is ranked higher, but it isn't Harvard. At the graduate/law school admissions level, the schools are considered peers. They don't split hairs the way that college obsessed parents do. UVA, Duke, Vanderblit, Rice, Emory, Notre Dame, Georgetown, etc., are all considered the same.

No they are not. Rice and Duke eclipse UVA. But that’s not a reason to go to those places over instate UVA, especially if you are Echols.

Duke and Rice may eclipse UVA, as you say, but the difference is not dramatic enough for grad schools to care. They are absolutely considered peer schools.

For in state students with a choice, the only undergrad business school that tops UVA is Wharton. That’s a no-brainer. Anything else ... there is zero reason to pass up UVA.