Duke vs. UVA (In-State)?

[Anonymous]

DH and I went to Duke and loved it. We don't feel that it is worth the premium, so we are encouraging UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The student bodies are quite different. For example UVA is a prime destination of TJ families who want to save money. Duke is a prime destination of private high school families. You go to Duke you learn about that crew. You go to UVA and you spend your life in polite discussions about "the best state universities." Both are great.

Those both sound sad. How about going to college to learn stuff.

[Anonymous]

Assuming he gets accepted, UVA. If you're going to pay a premium for higher ed, do it for grad school, not undergrad.

[Anonymous]

For a kid interested in business or pre-law, I would absolutely NOT say that Duke is worth it over UVA. UVA is fantastic for those programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottomline, Is $200 - 250K extra over 4 years ($43K per year extra + additional travel+ Duke preppy effect on spending) worth the perceived benefits of going to Duke?

List price and net price may be two different matters. Many (wealthy) privates offer good aid to relatively high income level families.

Have not heard of Duke offering good aid at high income levels. Would be interesting to see if that is common now. They might need to in order to compete with non-HYPS Ivies, Chicago, Northwestern, Vandy, etc.

Here is Princeton as an example: https://admission.princeton.edu/cost-aid/how-princetons-aid-program-works

Duke is not as wealthy as Princeton is.

Like Princeton, UVA and Duke are both need-blind/meet-full-need. So high-income families are not getting aid at any of these schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottomline, Is $200 - 250K extra over 4 years ($43K per year extra + additional travel+ Duke preppy effect on spending) worth the perceived benefits of going to Duke?

List price and net price may be two different matters. Many (wealthy) privates offer good aid to relatively high income level families.

Have not heard of Duke offering good aid at high income levels. Would be interesting to see if that is common now. They might need to in order to compete with non-HYPS Ivies, Chicago, Northwestern, Vandy, etc.

Here is Princeton as an example: https://admission.princeton.edu/cost-aid/how-princetons-aid-program-works

Duke is not as wealthy as Princeton is.

Like Princeton, UVA and Duke are both need-blind/meet-full-need. So high-income families are not getting aid at any of these schools.

What I was really pointing to was table, not the need blind statement at the top:

Gross Family Income Percent Qualified Average Grant What It Covers
$0–65,000 100% $71,340 Full tuition, college fee, room + board

$65,000–85,000 100% $65,620 Full tuition, college fee, 75% room + board

$85,000–100,000 100% $62,800 Full tuition, college fee, 58% room + board

$100,000–120,000 100% $58,780
Full tuition, college fee, 35% room + board?????

$120,000–140,000 100% $56,400 Full tuition, college fee, 21% room + board

$140,000–160,000

100% $52,210 Full tuition
$160,000–180,000

100% $47,470 91% tuition
$180,000–200,000

93% $41,900 81% tuition
$200,000–250,000

82% $35,185 68% tuition
$250,000 and above
(most who qualify have
2 children in college)

34% $25,430

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottomline, Is $200 - 250K extra over 4 years ($43K per year extra + additional travel+ Duke preppy effect on spending) worth the perceived benefits of going to Duke?

List price and net price may be two different matters. Many (wealthy) privates offer good aid to relatively high income level families.

Have not heard of Duke offering good aid at high income levels. Would be interesting to see if that is common now. They might need to in order to compete with non-HYPS Ivies, Chicago, Northwestern, Vandy, etc.

Here is Princeton as an example: https://admission.princeton.edu/cost-aid/how-princetons-aid-program-works

Duke is not as wealthy as Princeton is.

Like Princeton, UVA and Duke are both need-blind/meet-full-need. So high-income families are not getting aid at any of these schools.

What I was really pointing to was table, not the need blind statement at the top:

Gross Family Income Percent Qualified Average Grant What It Covers
$0–65,000 100% $71,340 Full tuition, college fee, room + board

$65,000–85,000 100% $65,620 Full tuition, college fee, 75% room + board

$85,000–100,000 100% $62,800 Full tuition, college fee, 58% room + board

$100,000–120,000 100% $58,780
Full tuition, college fee, 35% room + board?????

$120,000–140,000 100% $56,400 Full tuition, college fee, 21% room + board

$140,000–160,000

100% $52,210 Full tuition
$160,000–180,000

100% $47,470 91% tuition
$180,000–200,000

93% $41,900 81% tuition
$200,000–250,000

82% $35,185 68% tuition
$250,000 and above
(most who qualify have
2 children in college)

34% $25,430

Which is part of the reason why a federal aid recipient has half the cost to attend Princeton as an in-state federal aid recipient at UVA. Rounding, Princeton is $10K, UVA $20K, Duke $30K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS from a private VA high school has applied to UVA EA (non-binding) and is applying to Duke RD. Very strong stats and leadership in ECs. (Very likely admit to UVA, and counselor, who knows Duke well, is strongly encouraging application to Duke.) Interested in business or pre-law. Doesn't want to go North. These are the two top choices.

Given the dramatic difference in cost of attendance ($78k Duke vs. $35K UVA), is there any good reason to attend Duke over UVA? We will be paying from moderate savings and then out of pocket as we go.

Duke is certainly ranked higher, but the "prestige" factor between the schools in the mid-Atlantic area seems to be minimal. Duke is smaller. Both seem to be pretty "preppy" and greek-oriented. Both seem very sports-focused, which is important to DS. They have similarly ranked business and law programs.

I get paying a premium for HYPSM. But, in your opinion or experience, is Duke worth a similar premium?

I imagine a number of posters will say, "wait and see if you have the problem first." I get that. But I also might preempt excessive exuberance for Duke by talking about the cost difference with DS now.

Anyone else face this one before?

Duke is overrated and overpriced. UVA at half the cost is a no-brainer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS from a private VA high school has applied to UVA EA (non-binding) and is applying to Duke RD. Very strong stats and leadership in ECs. (Very likely admit to UVA, and counselor, who knows Duke well, is strongly encouraging application to Duke.) Interested in business or pre-law. Doesn't want to go North. These are the two top choices.

Given the dramatic difference in cost of attendance ($78k Duke vs. $35K UVA), is there any good reason to attend Duke over UVA? We will be paying from moderate savings and then out of pocket as we go.

Duke is certainly ranked higher, but the "prestige" factor between the schools in the mid-Atlantic area seems to be minimal. Duke is smaller. Both seem to be pretty "preppy" and greek-oriented. Both seem very sports-focused, which is important to DS. They have similarly ranked business and law programs.

I get paying a premium for HYPSM. But, in your opinion or experience, is Duke worth a similar premium?

I imagine a number of posters will say, "wait and see if you have the problem first." I get that. But I also might preempt excessive exuberance for Duke by talking about the cost difference with DS now.

Anyone else face this one before?

Duke is overrated and overpriced. UVA at half the cost is a no-brainer.

Says someone who can't get admitted to Duke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The student bodies are quite different. For example UVA is a prime destination of TJ families who want to save money. Duke is a prime destination of private high school families. You go to Duke you learn about that crew. You go to UVA and you spend your life in polite discussions about "the best state universities." Both are great.

The percent of students who attended public high school at Duke (67%) is virtually identical to the percent at UVA (68%). But who needs facts when you have conjecture?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The student bodies are quite different. For example UVA is a prime destination of TJ families who want to save money. Duke is a prime destination of private high school families. You go to Duke you learn about that crew. You go to UVA and you spend your life in polite discussions about "the best state universities." Both are great.

A lot of other people go to UVA ... what a narrow view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS from a private VA high school has applied to UVA EA (non-binding) and is applying to Duke RD. Very strong stats and leadership in ECs. (Very likely admit to UVA, and counselor, who knows Duke well, is strongly encouraging application to Duke.) Interested in business or pre-law. Doesn't want to go North. These are the two top choices.

Given the dramatic difference in cost of attendance ($78k Duke vs. $35K UVA), is there any good reason to attend Duke over UVA? We will be paying from moderate savings and then out of pocket as we go.

Duke is certainly ranked higher, but the "prestige" factor between the schools in the mid-Atlantic area seems to be minimal. Duke is smaller. Both seem to be pretty "preppy" and greek-oriented. Both seem very sports-focused, which is important to DS. They have similarly ranked business and law programs.

I get paying a premium for HYPSM. But, in your opinion or experience, is Duke worth a similar premium?

I imagine a number of posters will say, "wait and see if you have the problem first." I get that. But I also might preempt excessive exuberance for Duke by talking about the cost difference with DS now.

Anyone else face this one before?

This has been faced many times. Everyone should form their view based on their financial circumstances and if it will make a difference given their intended career path. (But they should also keep in mind many if not most change career and major paths.)

I would disagree that prestige is similar, even in the mid-Atlantic. Duke is generally regarded below HYPSM in prestige but above UVA and similar schools in my experience. That said, I think the prestige factor is often overrated. Medical school and law school are really numbers based, for instance. You have to have high GPA and high MCAT/LSAT to get in. I believe Duke will have higher representation at good graduate schools than UVA on a per capita basis, and you might try to attribute that to prestige, but I would argue that it is predominately a function of the students. Students who are admitted to Duke are, on average, going to score higher on MCAT/LSAT than UVA students and it has nothing to do with what the schools provided. Duke students will have had higher SAT scores, on average, and that aptitude carries over to other tests like MCAT/LSAT. If you take the same person and put them through UVA and Duke, their stats will probably be very similar, and therefore also their chances of medical and law admission. Perhaps at top graduate schools, prestige will be the tie breaker, but that is pretty rarified territory.

The bottom line is that if this student is good enough to be admitted to Duke, then for purposes of law of business it makes no difference as a practical matter whether he goes there or to UVA. Yes, Duke is ranked higher, but it isn't Harvard. At the graduate/law school admissions level, the schools are considered peers. They don't split hairs the way that college obsessed parents do. UVA, Duke, Vanderblit, Rice, Emory, Notre Dame, Georgetown, etc., are all considered the same.

No they are not. Rice and Duke eclipse UVA. But that’s not a reason to go to those places over instate UVA, especially if you are Echols.

Duke and Rice may eclipse UVA, as you say, but the difference is not dramatic enough for grad schools to care. They are absolutely considered peer schools.

For in state students with a choice, the only undergrad business school that tops UVA is Wharton. That’s a no-brainer. Anything else ... there is zero reason to pass up UVA.

Which brings up an obvious difference. UVA has an undergraduate business school. Duke does not. If you want to major, consider that.

[Anonymous]

On Parchment, Duke is preferred over UVA 88% to 12%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On Parchment, Duke is preferred over UVA 88% to 12%

That is not the ratio for instate VA students making the choice. I would bet it is 50/50 (due directly to the fact that Duke costs over 2x the price for in state VA students).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to Duke, I absolutely loved it, and the opportunities it provided pulled me out of lower middle class to UMC. Yes, it paved my way for the crucial entry years of my career. After that no one cares. No one. If my kid got into both with no financial aid I would push UVA and help him buy a starter home with the difference.

+1. Same here. My parents qualified for a lot of need based at Duke so it made the costs comparable to paying for in-state UNC back in the day. Now as a DCUM “middle class” family we are looking at public colleges for our kids. If your DS does decide on Duke, have him look into the public policy major. I absolutely loved my major.