S/O High SES students will perform well no matter their peer group

[Anonymous]

THIS ^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with PP that public schools are designed to teach the average masses. If your child falls outside of that average- for whatever reason- you might need to either (1) gain special accommodations for your child or (2) find a different school. DC schools do not seem to be in the business of accommodations for extremely advanced and/or gifted kids. So kids in this category might have to look elsewhere. It isn't the big deal that people make it out to be. Like everything else in life, you need or want something different than the basic (free) option, pay for the upgrade.

lol this is how you justify paying private tuition.

the actual academic elite kids don't need private schools.

Parents send their kids to private for a variety of reasons. Private schools have more control over some behaviors. I would argue there is less physical behavioral problems but far more relational aggression. Private schools are great for averages kids, they aren’t good for gifted or LD kids. Private schools have kids who parents have money to send them. Public school offers better advanced classes/differentiation than private (more kids). This has been my observation from moving my kid from a Big 3 to Deal MS. Whether private is better than public is based solely on your child. I think there are kids who benefit more from private. One is not better than the other, they’re different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Advanced classes don’t lead to better outcomes. https://medium.com/edmodoblog/avoid-ap-course-overload-it-matters-less-than-you-think-3382c064d7f2

That's not exactly what the article said, but in any event, AP is only one form of "advanced classes" and only for high school level.

[blockquote]...as one widely-cited study by Klopfenstein and Thomas (2010) found, “there is no evidence from methodologically rigorous studies that AP experience causes students to be successful in college.”

While the research from the CollegeBoard has consistently found that AP courses provide benefits, one summary of the research reports that this is in big part because AP “students tend to be from higher income families, are more likely to be White and attend suburban schools, and have better academic preparation for high school than non-AP students.” [/blockquote]

So go ahead and do what you want but know that the conventional wisdom is not some slam dunk put down of anyone else. I understand that Americans make residential choices based on assumptions and beliefs about how school environments will affect their children’s outcomes. But segregation for educational outcomes is not a choice you must make. And I will not, and I will not just stand by and let DCUM ‘wisdom’ affect my choices.

The article actually said to take "honors courses," rather than AP courses. Basically, AP courses are not honors courses because they don't challenge deep thinking and merely teach to the test. Not coincidentally, private schools are discontinuing AP classes because they don't sufficiently challenge the mind.

It's the intellectual processing speed of the classroom cohort that matters for high-achieving students. The article merely supports that truth.

That person has never seen a good AP class then. Contrary to popular belief, they are not all alike. Many many different AP course curricula get approved for credit. It isn't just one thing.

[Anonymous]

Getting into high performing colleges is largely about wealth as a study published by the NYT this week bears out. Being a child of an alum of a high performing college or excelling at a country club sport typically significant time/money investment over years) also helps.

Colleges, even selective ones, need students who can pay the full price or close to it with somewhat of a discount (called merit aid or a scholarship).

Time and again admissions office say that performance in high school classes is the strongest predictor of how someone will perform in college -- yet a high SAT/ACT score will allow a less talented student to squeak through. And SAT/ACT results can be significantly increased through paid test prep.

Read and join the active thread on the DCUM college and university thread https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/827279.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that it’s the high SES families that are expected to accept risk without any concessions or guarantees. If DCPS were to remove, say, Lafayette from Deal they better darn well guarantee in an EOTP school there will be tracking, zero tolerance for disruptive students and those with poor attendance, crack down on residency fraud, etc. But DCPS will never do that. So instead they try to sell some immeasurable benefit like our kids will be “able to work well diverse groups in the future.” That’s just not enough.

100% correct. And "your kid will be fine because they are high SES" is also missing the mark. "Fine" is not -- nor will it ever be -- enough for this cohort of WOTP families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that it’s the high SES families that are expected to accept risk without any concessions or guarantees. If DCPS were to remove, say, Lafayette from Deal they better darn well guarantee in an EOTP school there will be tracking, zero tolerance for disruptive students and those with poor attendance, crack down on residency fraud, etc. But DCPS will never do that. So instead they try to sell some immeasurable benefit like our kids will be “able to work well diverse groups in the future.” That’s just not enough.

100% correct. And "your kid will be fine because they are high SES" is also missing the mark. "Fine" is not -- nor will it ever be -- enough for this cohort of WOTP families.

Great, then enjoy your over-crowded HS and MS and stfu.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that it’s the high SES families that are expected to accept risk without any concessions or guarantees. If DCPS were to remove, say, Lafayette from Deal they better darn well guarantee in an EOTP school there will be tracking, zero tolerance for disruptive students and those with poor attendance, crack down on residency fraud, etc. But DCPS will never do that. So instead they try to sell some immeasurable benefit like our kids will be “able to work well diverse groups in the future.” That’s just not enough.

100% correct. And "your kid will be fine because they are high SES" is also missing the mark. "Fine" is not -- nor will it ever be -- enough for this cohort of WOTP families.

Great, then enjoy your over-crowded HS and MS and stfu.

So that's the answer: We won't help you because you want your kids to do too well. Gotcha.

You know, in many cities, they actually want their students to be high achieving?

[Anonymous]

At minimum, I EOTP man, will not pay for another expansion of Deal or Wilson. NOPE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At minimum, I EOTP man, will not pay for another expansion of Deal or Wilson. NOPE.

OK that's fine. Will you also do what you can to stop OOB kids from attending? Will you agree to send your own kid to your IB HS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At minimum, I EOTP man, will not pay for another expansion of Deal or Wilson. NOPE.

OK that's fine. Will you also do what you can to stop OOB kids from attending? Will you agree to send your own kid to your IB HS?

YES AND YES. These are the choices I a considering for my kids as they exit elementary school and head to MS:

Roosevelt
Coolidge early college
Banneker
Walls

Not Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At minimum, I EOTP man, will not pay for another expansion of Deal or Wilson. NOPE.

OK that's fine. Will you also do what you can to stop OOB kids from attending? Will you agree to send your own kid to your IB HS?

As an EOTP person I definitely don't see why OOB need to be included at either Deal or Wilson if they're crowded. Are there really that many? How do they even get in? I would never expect my kid would go there.

I do get the whole idea that we need to spread the wealth around a bit, but this does not seem to be the way to do it. Then again, for reasons that are clear in this thread, I'm prepared to move out of the city if need be to access honors track classes. Our other option will be DCI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that it’s the high SES families that are expected to accept risk without any concessions or guarantees. If DCPS were to remove, say, Lafayette from Deal they better darn well guarantee in an EOTP school there will be tracking, zero tolerance for disruptive students and those with poor attendance, crack down on residency fraud, etc. But DCPS will never do that. So instead they try to sell some immeasurable benefit like our kids will be “able to work well diverse groups in the future.” That’s just not enough.

100% correct. And "your kid will be fine because they are high SES" is also missing the mark. "Fine" is not -- nor will it ever be -- enough for this cohort of WOTP families.

Great, then enjoy your over-crowded HS and MS and stfu.

So that's the answer: We won't help you because you want your kids to do too well. Gotcha.

You know, in many cities, they actually want their students to be high achieving?

Nope. It's that if you refuse a pro-social, community-minded solution to allocating scarce resources, then the system is not going to go out of its way to help you. You've made clear that you believe you are your own little special island in DCPS, so that's what you'll get.

[Anonymous]

Yeah there definitely seems to be a vibe here like, “we won the meritocracy, you must bow to us now.” Not sure that is an actual requirement of social policy. I at least am more interested in seeing if I can make something good for as many people as possible before looking at extracting the best for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that it’s the high SES families that are expected to accept risk without any concessions or guarantees. If DCPS were to remove, say, Lafayette from Deal they better darn well guarantee in an EOTP school there will be tracking, zero tolerance for disruptive students and those with poor attendance, crack down on residency fraud, etc. But DCPS will never do that. So instead they try to sell some immeasurable benefit like our kids will be “able to work well diverse groups in the future.” That’s just not enough.

100% correct. And "your kid will be fine because they are high SES" is also missing the mark. "Fine" is not -- nor will it ever be -- enough for this cohort of WOTP families.

Great, then enjoy your over-crowded HS and MS and stfu.

So that's the answer: We won't help you because you want your kids to do too well. Gotcha.

You know, in many cities, they actually want their students to be high achieving?

Nope. It's that if you refuse a pro-social, community-minded solution to allocating scarce resources, then the system is not going to go out of its way to help you. You've made clear that you believe you are your own little special island in DCPS, so that's what you'll get.

No, we're asking for a solution that allows for equal to the achievement potential they already have if they attend Wilson. So, for instance, if you want to rezone some schools, can you show that accelerated classes are offered with a track record of success?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah there definitely seems to be a vibe here like, “we won the meritocracy, you must bow to us now.” Not sure that is an actual requirement of social policy. I at least am more interested in seeing if I can make something good for as many people as possible before looking at extracting the best for me.

In theory that's fine. But when you are dealing with your child's own education, the risks are too high. There's no bowing - there's an ask that DCPS provide a vehicle for kids who excel to be supported in doing so. Wilson and test ins are the current options. If DCPS wants me to send my kid somewhere else, they need to show me that it can work there as well.