S/O High SES students will perform well no matter their peer group

[Anonymous]

This is a spin off of the Wilson thread but I am interested to know what research says about why high SES kids(as a proxy for children of educated mothers) will do well no matter their peer group to a point. I have read about the correlation to education of the mother. As an educated mother, I suspect that part of why my kids will do well is because I will ensure that they attend strong schools. That is, I will move or take other actions as necessary to ensure good educational outcomes, not that the fact of having an educated mother without more will cause my children to succeed academically. So, when someone says to me that I should not worry about the observed outcomes of a school because my children will be fine no matter what, my reaction is of course they will be fine precisely because I would never send them to such a school.

Go ahead, call me racist or whatever but I am really Interested in knowing whether and, if so, how the research accounts for this.

[Anonymous]

To me the issue is the definition of "well." Will they complete HS and attend college? Is that the definition? If so, that bar is too low for me.

[Anonymous]

Did you take the time to read the research linked in that thread or do you just want to start another racist/classist thread? There is a political forum for your type.

[Anonymous]

Also, you can look at the parcc data on schools within the district for yourself. There are charters/eotp schools where the white kids outperform the white kids WOTP. What exactly are you afraid of? Let’s start there.

[Anonymous]

“research shows that middle-class students tend to do as well academically in economically mixed schools. But more than that, there's emerging research to suggest that, indeed, middle-class students benefit from both economic and racial diversity.”

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/03/16/5157886...ck-to-improve-student-outcomes

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/10/19/4460855...enefit-from-integrated-schools


https://tcf.org/content/facts/the-benefits-of-soci...ools-and-classrooms/?session=1

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ995900.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“research shows that middle-class students tend to do as well academically in economically mixed schools. But more than that, there's emerging research to suggest that, indeed, middle-class students benefit from both economic and racial diversity.”

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/03/16/5157886...ck-to-improve-student-outcomes

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/10/19/4460855...enefit-from-integrated-schools


https://tcf.org/content/facts/the-benefits-of-soci...ools-and-classrooms/?session=1

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ995900.pdf

NP here, but the only things the studies cite is that standardized test scores don't dip and kids "might" become more empathtic and work well in groups. The first one is too low and too general a fact to convince me that my particular kids would attend the same colleges they might if they were at Wilson. The second two are not science, but theory and unproven theory at that. Separately, Wilson is very diverse -- a lot more diverse than most other DC highschools.

[Anonymous]

I would agree that the subject of this threat is "classist," but that doesn't mean the topic isn't based in reality. I'll volunteer that in my personal experience, participation in advanced classes (whether you call such "G&T" or "tracking," it doesn't matter) results in higher levels of knowledge and competence in the given subject matter. The difference in results when comparing "tracked" classes and "average student" classes continues through higher education, meaning: there is a direct correlation between the competence of the peer group and the competence of the student who participates in the group. This is real-world stuff, full-stop.

I don't question the multitude of studies saying that academic competence of high-income students will not decrease when those high-income and/or "gifted" students are placed in mainstreamed classes, but these studies do not account for the opportunity to improve that is lost when those students have no opportunity to be surrounded by a measurably superior peer group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“research shows that middle-class students tend to do as well academically in economically mixed schools. But more than that, there's emerging research to suggest that, indeed, middle-class students benefit from both economic and racial diversity.”

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/03/16/5157886...ck-to-improve-student-outcomes

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/10/19/4460855...enefit-from-integrated-schools


https://tcf.org/content/facts/the-benefits-of-soci...ools-and-classrooms/?session=1

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ995900.pdf

NP here, but the only things the studies cite is that standardized test scores don't dip and kids "might" become more empathtic and work well in groups. The first one is too low and too general a fact to convince me that my particular kids would attend the same colleges they might if they were at Wilson. The second two are not science, but theory and unproven theory at that. Separately, Wilson is very diverse -- a lot more diverse than most other DC highschools.

*diverse for now. Won’t be diverse at all once Hardy is 90% IB and of Shepherd/Bancroft get booted like most want.

I’ll do y’all one better. How about you show me a study that shows wealthy white kids are harmed by SES/racial diversity?

[Anonymous]

Because they will be educated de facto not by the school but by the resources you cobble together for them? Private tutors, online classes, summer programs, and so on.

[Anonymous]

I’ll do y’all one better. How about you show me a study that shows wealthy white kids are harmed by SES/racial diversity?

Here's something addressing why students at "high poverty" schools are a disadantage.


https://www.thecommonwealthinstitute.org/2017/10/26/unequal-opportunities-fewer-resources-worse-outcomes-for-students-in-schools-with-concentrated-poverty/

I don't know the specifics of the OP's situation, but if studies show that high poverty schools are disadvantageous, are there any studies that show that higher SES students do just as well in high poverty schools as low poverty schools?

[Anonymous]

Nonetheless, y’all are smoking tainted flavored e-cigs if you don’t think DC is going to break up the Wilson monopoly bigly. Mark my words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“research shows that middle-class students tend to do as well academically in economically mixed schools. But more than that, there's emerging research to suggest that, indeed, middle-class students benefit from both economic and racial diversity.”

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2017/03/16/5157886...ck-to-improve-student-outcomes

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/10/19/4460855...enefit-from-integrated-schools


https://tcf.org/content/facts/the-benefits-of-soci...ools-and-classrooms/?session=1

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ995900.pdf

NP here, but the only things the studies cite is that standardized test scores don't dip and kids "might" become more empathtic and work well in groups. The first one is too low and too general a fact to convince me that my particular kids would attend the same colleges they might if they were at Wilson. The second two are not science, but theory and unproven theory at that. Separately, Wilson is very diverse -- a lot more diverse than most other DC highschools.

*diverse for now. Won’t be diverse at all once Hardy is 90% IB and of Shepherd/Bancroft get booted like most want.

I’ll do y’all one better. How about you show me a study that shows wealthy white kids are harmed by SES/racial diversity?

By what definition? Most of these studies talk about standardized test scores and college-readiness. That is not the threshold for success that I want for my kids. I don't want them to aim for a middling college degree. And again, telling me that in general test scores don't dip doesn't convince me that my particular children won't see a difference in achievement if they attend a school like Coolidge where only 62% of freshman complete 9th grade in one year and with 0% of AP performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’ll do y’all one better. How about you show me a study that shows wealthy white kids are harmed by SES/racial diversity?

Here's something addressing why students at "high poverty" schools are a disadantage.


https://www.thecommonwealthinstitute.org/2017/10/26/unequal-opportunities-fewer-resources-worse-outcomes-for-students-in-schools-with-concentrated-poverty/

I don't know the specifics of the OP's situation, but if studies show that high poverty schools are disadvantageous, are there any studies that show that higher SES students do just as well in high poverty schools as low poverty schools?

That’s high poverty. All studies show ideal is 30-50% low income. Sure, we don’t have enough to make all HS that level, but you start with breaking up Wilson and freeing sets for Coolidge and Roosevelt and then as people opt in, you can go east with Dunbar etc.

[Anonymous]

Privilege, cultural capital, financial capital (you will send them to college and have funds for their downpayment, emergencies, etc), and the fact that actually most schools are solid on the basics and your special snowflake does not need a special snowflake curriculum to learn math and English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you take the time to read the research linked in that thread or do you just want to start another racist/classist thread? There is a political forum for your type.

I am asking a very specific question. There are two separate points that are often conflated. One, that SES mixed schools (30-50 % disadvantaged) Provide academic benefits to low SES kids and high SES kids do fine (or maybe better). The second, what I am asking about, is that the education of the mother is the factor most correlated with a child’s academic success. The second is often used to support the argument that the success of a school doesn’t matter at all because your child will do well no matter what solely because of who the parents are. What I am asking whether and, if so, how those studies establish causation or otherwise account for the choices an educated mother will make on where she sends her children to school or it is pure correlation?

None of the linked research (to the extent it opens because some links are bad) address my question. Sending my child to a poorly performing school is a different question than sending my kids to an SES mixed school. I have zero problem with the second.