no trolling - comparing MoCo vs WOTP DCPS schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'Janney' thread got deleted by the moderator and rightfully so. I do wonder if we can have a serious discussion about why we must pit the schools against one another? There are great schools in DC and in MD. Any time you have a school with a very wealthy student population, is there any doubt it will succeed?

Here are the average PARCC scores (average math and ELA) for WOTP DCPS schools and the MoCo schools that another poster mentioned by grade:

3rd Grade Avg
Coldspring ES 91.25
Bannockburn 87.35
Ross (DC) 85.4
Key (DC) 82.85
Carderock ES 82.45
Hyde (DC) 82.1
Bradley Hills 80.65
Lafayette (DC) 76.8
Janney (DC) 75.85
Clarksburg ES 74.15
Mann (DC) 74.15
Bethesda Elementary 73
Stoddert (DC) 72.35
Oyster (DC) 68.55
Murch (DC) 65.3
Eaton (DC) 62.7
Belmont 61.1
College Gardens 58.6

4th Grade Avg
Stoddert (DC) 92.35
Coldspring ES 90.15
Bannockburn 90
Ross (DC) 90
Carderock ES 88.25
Janney (DC) 84.65
Mann (DC) 80.25
Eaton (DC) 79.9
Lafayette (DC) 79.8
Bradley Hills 77.1
Key (DC) 71
Murch (DC) 70.6
Belmont 70.35
Clarksburg ES 63.6
Oyster (DC) 62.95
Hyde (DC) 62.1
College Gardens 56.6
Bethesda Elementary 55.1


5th Grade Avg
Coldspring ES 93.1
Bannockburn 90
Carderock ES 82.1
Janney (DC) 81.45
Key (DC) 75
Ross (DC) 75
Lafayette (DC) 74.2
Eaton (DC) 73.85
Stoddert (DC) 73.35
Mann (DC) 71.3
Bradley Hills 70.7
Oyster (DC) 69.7
Hyde (DC) 64
Murch (DC) 62.5
Bethesda Elementary 59.8
Belmont 59.45
College Gardens 50.35
Clarksburg ES 47.05

Discuss.

You picked the wealthiest schools in DC and compared them to a diverse set of schools in MD. That's called cherry picking your data OP.

+1 And Ross ES EOTP, not WOTP. But I guess you want to use it because its test scores are higher than most of the WOTP schools.

I thought OP is using these schools because many say that there are no schools in DC better than top MCPS.

That's correct, but these scores are meaningless because they are from different standards.

Then the premise of the Op is that the best schools of Dc are comparable to the average schools of MCPS?

OP here. The thread was a spin off from another that got deleted. Essentially, someone was asking was there any school in DC better than Janney. Then a moco parent chimed in and said that most moco schools would kick the snot out of even the schools like Janney. I asked which ones she was referring to and those are the schools in Moco that I have listed.

Just for the record, I am the poster on the other thread who said that elementary schools in Montgomery county would kick the snot out of Janney. But I am not a Montgomery county parent. My kids went to elementary school in Northern Virginia.

So wait, you're an older parent here trolling and don't even have kids in either school system you're making claims about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if needs are being met.
I have two kids at Deal who have received all A's and 100% in many classes some quarters (as in they haven't missed a point on anything the entire quarter in math or ELA). They have received 5's on all PARCCs they have taken since 3rd grade. They're learning but they certainly aren't being challenged. The school does test-in for math and so they're both up 2 years (Algebra 1 in 7th and on). I'm not sure if they're G&T or not but they're certainly maxing out the Deal curriculum with very little effort and it was the same at our JKLM feeder school. Deal has not offered they any other enrichment and I'd put them in the top 10% of their respective classes (about 10% of the kids perform at this level--in terms of grades, etc).

I have a neighbor whose kid is definitely gifted (the type of kid doing Algebra independently at home in 4th grade) and while Deal has allowed the kid to accelerate in math (Algebra in 6th, double math classes in 7th), they haven't done anything in other subjects. However, the family is much happier at Deal than at the JKLM which did absolutely nothing for this kid despite quite a few meetings with the school. Or should I say, they did a few "pull outs" for more advanced problem sets in math but nothing at all like a true gifted and talented program and certainly no different or expanded curriculum.

Thanks for your honesty. Parents who think their kids are being challenged to their fullest potential in DCPS are kidding themselves. Just like they are deluding themselves saying this and this is not widely known or not being touted but equivalent to G & T. All subjective stuff.

I was in G & T in elementary and tracked at the highest level throughout school. Tracking, grouping kids who are performing at the highest level, and teaching a very in depth and accelerated curriculum pushes them to perform better and reach their full potential. Giving an individual child a harder assignment so they are being “challenged” will not have the same effect. This applies to elementary and is even more important in middle and high school.

Unlike DC and Deal, neighboring states such as VA and MD, the middle schools offer multi-level courses for ALL subjects, all. So do their high schools. This is tracking. This is how you group the best and brightest together, and this is how you are able to accelerate a curriculum and learning. As the students rise up to the challenge, the teacher can easily modify it and raise the difficulty ceiling further. You cannot do this when you don’t have all these students together and have varying levels of students in a class.

Wow, I commented pro tracking above but this post is so tone deaf I want to take it all back. You don’t hear how you sound? “Best and Brightest”? This is why people think tracking is just a way to reinforce elitism and privilege. What’s everyone else, mediocre and dull? I generally like the concept and benefited from it but I’d hate my kid to turn out like you.

No, tracking groups kids together to appropriately challenge them. The kids at the top are the brightest or advanced, then comes above average, average, below average. Just like letter grades A, B, C etc.. It’s also how the real world works. You can think otherwise but that’s a fact. We are not in a utopia where everyone’s abilities are the same.

I don’t have a problem if my child is above average, average, or whatever. If my child is average, he is not going to learn at the same pace as an advance or if you will brightest child. If the majority of the class is average, we all know where most of the teachers time and focus will be directed.

Lastly no, from my first hand personal experience, it did not reinforce elitism and privilege. It helped me do better and reach my full potential coming from a poor minority family.

[Anonymous]

Ive had kids in both.

Wotp is as good ad, and sometimes better, than moco up to grade 3. The dc class sizes are smaller with more extras.

After that, the best dc students leave and the teaching is less effective because there is limited differentiation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Test scores reflect demographics. Schools with lots of rich white and Asian kids do well. If your kid is from a similar background, they'll do about the same in DC or MD schools.
The end.

This pretty much sums it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if needs are being met.
I have two kids at Deal who have received all A's and 100% in many classes some quarters (as in they haven't missed a point on anything the entire quarter in math or ELA). They have received 5's on all PARCCs they have taken since 3rd grade. They're learning but they certainly aren't being challenged. The school does test-in for math and so they're both up 2 years (Algebra 1 in 7th and on). I'm not sure if they're G&T or not but they're certainly maxing out the Deal curriculum with very little effort and it was the same at our JKLM feeder school. Deal has not offered they any other enrichment and I'd put them in the top 10% of their respective classes (about 10% of the kids perform at this level--in terms of grades, etc).

I have a neighbor whose kid is definitely gifted (the type of kid doing Algebra independently at home in 4th grade) and while Deal has allowed the kid to accelerate in math (Algebra in 6th, double math classes in 7th), they haven't done anything in other subjects. However, the family is much happier at Deal than at the JKLM which did absolutely nothing for this kid despite quite a few meetings with the school. Or should I say, they did a few "pull outs" for more advanced problem sets in math but nothing at all like a true gifted and talented program and certainly no different or expanded curriculum.

Thanks for your honesty. Parents who think their kids are being challenged to their fullest potential in DCPS are kidding themselves. Just like they are deluding themselves saying this and this is not widely known or not being touted but equivalent to G & T. All subjective stuff.

I was in G & T in elementary and tracked at the highest level throughout school. Tracking, grouping kids who are performing at the highest level, and teaching a very in depth and accelerated curriculum pushes them to perform better and reach their full potential. Giving an individual child a harder assignment so they are being “challenged” will not have the same effect. This applies to elementary and is even more important in middle and high school.

Unlike DC and Deal, neighboring states such as VA and MD, the middle schools offer multi-level courses for ALL subjects, all. So do their high schools. This is tracking. This is how you group the best and brightest together, and this is how you are able to accelerate a curriculum and learning. As the students rise up to the challenge, the teacher can easily modify it and raise the difficulty ceiling further. You cannot do this when you don’t have all these students together and have varying levels of students in a class.

So in DCPS, everyone just takes the same class/is given the same material? There are no advanced/honors or remedial classes?

Basically in a nutshell yes. Maybe math track here and there. There are a few test in high schools. Wilson high school is the track for Deal after middle school. They have regular courses, honors, and AP. Now leadership there I heard wants to remove the regular course and have honors for all in 9th - 11th so kids 3 and 4 grade levels apart are in the same class.

No. Elementary schools differentiate; middle schools are either IB (so no tracking needed - though there is some differentiation), or they do have tracks (eg. Hardy and the cluster MS on the Hill), and the high schools all have different levels.

Why on DCPS threads are people who say negative things thanked for "honesty," and people who give positive facts and opinions are dismissed?

NO, many elementary schools DO NOT differentiate. The top ones do not. I have had 3 kids at Janney (2 alums, 1 there now). They don't differentiate. They teach everyone on one level. Deal will differentiate for math and language. Wilson has "honors for all" for 9th, 10th, and 11th. So one level of classes in those grades now except for for APs.
STOP MAKING CRAP UP!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Test scores reflect demographics. Schools with lots of rich white and Asian kids do well. If your kid is from a similar background, they'll do about the same in DC or MD schools.
The end.

I thought College Gardens was considered white and Asian?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ive had kids in both.

Wotp is as good ad, and sometimes better, than moco up to grade 3. The dc class sizes are smaller with more extras.

After that, the best dc students leave and the teaching is less effective because there is limited differentiation.

How long ago were your kids in DC schools? Sounds like quite awhile, as it’s been sometime since kids leave at 3rd grade--this is no longer true in DC for WOTP and some other schools also.

[Anonymous]

I've had kids in both and think that our WOTP school did better than MCPS through 5th - more robust science, social studies and writing, with math and reading on par. MS kid blows through MCPS writing assignments because they are so much easier than what our WOTP school required. Plus, the school had smaller class sizes and more co-teachers making for a lower teacher-student ratio. I do think it DC falls apart in middle and beyond because of the refusal to track and removal of resources from high achieving cohorts in order to bring up the lower achieving ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The 'Janney' thread got deleted by the moderator and rightfully so. I do wonder if we can have a serious discussion about why we must pit the schools against one another? There are great schools in DC and in MD. Any time you have a school with a very wealthy student population, is there any doubt it will succeed?

Here are the average PARCC scores (average math and ELA) for WOTP DCPS schools and the MoCo schools that another poster mentioned by grade:

3rd Grade Avg
Coldspring ES 91.25
Bannockburn 87.35
Ross (DC) 85.4
Key (DC) 82.85
Carderock ES 82.45
Hyde (DC) 82.1
Bradley Hills 80.65
Lafayette (DC) 76.8
Janney (DC) 75.85
Clarksburg ES 74.15
Mann (DC) 74.15
Bethesda Elementary 73
Stoddert (DC) 72.35
Oyster (DC) 68.55
Murch (DC) 65.3
Eaton (DC) 62.7
Belmont 61.1
College Gardens 58.6

4th Grade Avg
Stoddert (DC) 92.35
Coldspring ES 90.15
Bannockburn 90
Ross (DC) 90
Carderock ES 88.25
Janney (DC) 84.65
Mann (DC) 80.25
Eaton (DC) 79.9
Lafayette (DC) 79.8
Bradley Hills 77.1
Key (DC) 71
Murch (DC) 70.6
Belmont 70.35
Clarksburg ES 63.6
Oyster (DC) 62.95
Hyde (DC) 62.1
College Gardens 56.6
Bethesda Elementary 55.1


5th Grade Avg
Coldspring ES 93.1
Bannockburn 90
Carderock ES 82.1
Janney (DC) 81.45
Key (DC) 75
Ross (DC) 75
Lafayette (DC) 74.2
Eaton (DC) 73.85
Stoddert (DC) 73.35
Mann (DC) 71.3
Bradley Hills 70.7
Oyster (DC) 69.7
Hyde (DC) 64
Murch (DC) 62.5
Bethesda Elementary 59.8
Belmont 59.45
College Gardens 50.35
Clarksburg ES 47.05

Discuss.

How many times do we have to go over this ? They are not the same assessments. Different standards.
You cannot compare PARCC assessment taken in DC to PARCC assessment taken in MD. Different standards. MD standards are very high and tough.
A simple Google search could have told you that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARCC
"When administering the PARCC assessment, states will be able to tailor the exams to their standards, classes, and other accountability tools that are unique to each state."

THERE IS NOTHING TO DISCUSS

I'm pretty sure you have that backward. The complains were that MD dummied down the reporting after they saw the results. DCPS stuck to the original standard.

Please cite your source for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if needs are being met.
I have two kids at Deal who have received all A's and 100% in many classes some quarters (as in they haven't missed a point on anything the entire quarter in math or ELA). They have received 5's on all PARCCs they have taken since 3rd grade. They're learning but they certainly aren't being challenged. The school does test-in for math and so they're both up 2 years (Algebra 1 in 7th and on). I'm not sure if they're G&T or not but they're certainly maxing out the Deal curriculum with very little effort and it was the same at our JKLM feeder school. Deal has not offered they any other enrichment and I'd put them in the top 10% of their respective classes (about 10% of the kids perform at this level--in terms of grades, etc).

I have a neighbor whose kid is definitely gifted (the type of kid doing Algebra independently at home in 4th grade) and while Deal has allowed the kid to accelerate in math (Algebra in 6th, double math classes in 7th), they haven't done anything in other subjects. However, the family is much happier at Deal than at the JKLM which did absolutely nothing for this kid despite quite a few meetings with the school. Or should I say, they did a few "pull outs" for more advanced problem sets in math but nothing at all like a true gifted and talented program and certainly no different or expanded curriculum.

Thanks for your honesty. Parents who think their kids are being challenged to their fullest potential in DCPS are kidding themselves. Just like they are deluding themselves saying this and this is not widely known or not being touted but equivalent to G & T. All subjective stuff.

I was in G & T in elementary and tracked at the highest level throughout school. Tracking, grouping kids who are performing at the highest level, and teaching a very in depth and accelerated curriculum pushes them to perform better and reach their full potential. Giving an individual child a harder assignment so they are being “challenged” will not have the same effect. This applies to elementary and is even more important in middle and high school.

Unlike DC and Deal, neighboring states such as VA and MD, the middle schools offer multi-level courses for ALL subjects, all. So do their high schools. This is tracking. This is how you group the best and brightest together, and this is how you are able to accelerate a curriculum and learning. As the students rise up to the challenge, the teacher can easily modify it and raise the difficulty ceiling further. You cannot do this when you don’t have all these students together and have varying levels of students in a class.

So in DCPS, everyone just takes the same class/is given the same material? There are no advanced/honors or remedial classes?

Basically in a nutshell yes. Maybe math track here and there. There are a few test in high schools. Wilson high school is the track for Deal after middle school. They have regular courses, honors, and AP. Now leadership there I heard wants to remove the regular course and have honors for all in 9th - 11th so kids 3 and 4 grade levels apart are in the same class.

No. Elementary schools differentiate; middle schools are either IB (so no tracking needed - though there is some differentiation), or they do have tracks (eg. Hardy and the cluster MS on the Hill), and the high schools all have different levels.

Why on DCPS threads are people who say negative things thanked for "honesty," and people who give positive facts and opinions are dismissed?

NO, many elementary schools DO NOT differentiate. The top ones do not. I have had 3 kids at Janney (2 alums, 1 there now). They don't differentiate. They teach everyone on one level. Deal will differentiate for math and language. Wilson has "honors for all" for 9th, 10th, and 11th. So one level of classes in those grades now except for for APs.
STOP MAKING CRAP UP!!!

Here is what we have seen EOTP.

ECE is OK but majority of parents bail DCPS elementary by 3rd or 4th grade. Capital hill elementary parents may stay till 5th.
No one is staying in DCPS for middle. A small number of parents stay to go to Stuart Hobson in Capital Hill. They have honors but it’s not selective or rigorous. All the kids from middle class families get in.
No one at all is staying for high school unless they get into the test in high schools.

IB curriculum at EOTP middle school is a joke. No one is sending their kids to the middle schools. As to the non test in DCPS high schools, no way is anyone going, and I don’t know what levels they have that you are talking about but even if they do, it’s just for show. No real rigor.

Above is the deal. An outlier few families may keep their kid in middle and high school that’s it. Most are not willing to sacrifice their child’s education in a school system that refuses to meet the needs of the higher performing kids. I agree with PP who said potential resources are diverted away from them to close the achievement gap by trying to bring the lower kids up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ive had kids in both.

Wotp is as good ad, and sometimes better, than moco up to grade 3. The dc class sizes are smaller with more extras.

After that, the best dc students leave and the teaching is less effective because there is limited differentiation.

How long ago were your kids in DC schools? Sounds like quite awhile, as it’s been sometime since kids leave at 3rd grade--this is no longer true in DC for WOTP and some other schools also.

This. Never crossed my mind to move since we live WOTP. DC is in middle school now and doing well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if needs are being met.
I have two kids at Deal who have received all A's and 100% in many classes some quarters (as in they haven't missed a point on anything the entire quarter in math or ELA). They have received 5's on all PARCCs they have taken since 3rd grade. They're learning but they certainly aren't being challenged. The school does test-in for math and so they're both up 2 years (Algebra 1 in 7th and on). I'm not sure if they're G&T or not but they're certainly maxing out the Deal curriculum with very little effort and it was the same at our JKLM feeder school. Deal has not offered they any other enrichment and I'd put them in the top 10% of their respective classes (about 10% of the kids perform at this level--in terms of grades, etc).

I have a neighbor whose kid is definitely gifted (the type of kid doing Algebra independently at home in 4th grade) and while Deal has allowed the kid to accelerate in math (Algebra in 6th, double math classes in 7th), they haven't done anything in other subjects. However, the family is much happier at Deal than at the JKLM which did absolutely nothing for this kid despite quite a few meetings with the school. Or should I say, they did a few "pull outs" for more advanced problem sets in math but nothing at all like a true gifted and talented program and certainly no different or expanded curriculum.

Thanks for your honesty. Parents who think their kids are being challenged to their fullest potential in DCPS are kidding themselves. Just like they are deluding themselves saying this and this is not widely known or not being touted but equivalent to G & T. All subjective stuff.

I was in G & T in elementary and tracked at the highest level throughout school. Tracking, grouping kids who are performing at the highest level, and teaching a very in depth and accelerated curriculum pushes them to perform better and reach their full potential. Giving an individual child a harder assignment so they are being “challenged” will not have the same effect. This applies to elementary and is even more important in middle and high school.

Unlike DC and Deal, neighboring states such as VA and MD, the middle schools offer multi-level courses for ALL subjects, all. So do their high schools. This is tracking. This is how you group the best and brightest together, and this is how you are able to accelerate a curriculum and learning. As the students rise up to the challenge, the teacher can easily modify it and raise the difficulty ceiling further. You cannot do this when you don’t have all these students together and have varying levels of students in a class.

So in DCPS, everyone just takes the same class/is given the same material? There are no advanced/honors or remedial classes?

Basically in a nutshell yes. Maybe math track here and there. There are a few test in high schools. Wilson high school is the track for Deal after middle school. They have regular courses, honors, and AP. Now leadership there I heard wants to remove the regular course and have honors for all in 9th - 11th so kids 3 and 4 grade levels apart are in the same class.

No. Elementary schools differentiate; middle schools are either IB (so no tracking needed - though there is some differentiation), or they do have tracks (eg. Hardy and the cluster MS on the Hill), and the high schools all have different levels.

Why on DCPS threads are people who say negative things thanked for "honesty," and people who give positive facts and opinions are dismissed?

NO, many elementary schools DO NOT differentiate. The top ones do not. I have had 3 kids at Janney (2 alums, 1 there now). They don't differentiate. They teach everyone on one level. Deal will differentiate for math and language. Wilson has "honors for all" for 9th, 10th, and 11th. So one level of classes in those grades now except for for APs.
STOP MAKING CRAP UP!!!

Here is what we have seen EOTP.

ECE is OK but majority of parents bail DCPS elementary by 3rd or 4th grade. Capital hill elementary parents may stay till 5th.
No one is staying in DCPS for middle. A small number of parents stay to go to Stuart Hobson in Capital Hill. They have honors but it’s not selective or rigorous. All the kids from middle class families get in.
No one at all is staying for high school unless they get into the test in high schools.

IB curriculum at EOTP middle school is a joke. No one is sending their kids to the middle schools. As to the non test in DCPS high schools, no way is anyone going, and I don’t know what levels they have that you are talking about but even if they do, it’s just for show. No real rigor.

Above is the deal. An outlier few families may keep their kid in middle and high school that’s it. Most are not willing to sacrifice their child’s education in a school system that refuses to meet the needs of the higher performing kids. I agree with PP who said potential resources are diverted away from them to close the achievement gap by trying to bring the lower kids up.

Oh and in the elementary schools in Capital Hill, the PTA raises a ton of money to pay for extra aids/teachers to help with some differentiation. I’m sure the schools WOTP does too. It’s not DCPS providing it. But a few extra bodies can only do so much and this is not sustainable in middle school where the academic achievement widens even more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ive had kids in both.

Wotp is as good ad, and sometimes better, than moco up to grade 3. The dc class sizes are smaller with more extras.

After that, the best dc students leave and the teaching is less effective because there is limited differentiation.

How long ago were your kids in DC schools? Sounds like quite awhile, as it’s been sometime since kids leave at 3rd grade--this is no longer true in DC for WOTP and some other schools also.

This. Never crossed my mind to move since we live WOTP. DC is in middle school now and doing well.

I posted that and have a 5th grader who is my 3rd kid to go through this. All the smartest kids left before 4th and 5th. This year in 5th they disnt even bother to differentiate in math and it was a wasted year for DC.

[Anonymous]

I'm the Janney parent above and there is zero formal differentiation at Janney. My kids did (and do) well with no effort and always get 5's on the PARCC. When we asked about more, it was suggested that they join the lunch time math club. My neighbor's kid is a true prodigy (doing math 5 grades up, etc). The parents had many meetings and were also provided with nothing except for suggestions about the math club and for a few weeks one year their kids was given extra work-sheets. They were far more frustrated than we were because they have a kid who truly needs differentiation and was bored out of his mind (but well behaved because he's a quiet kid) and the school provided nothing year after year. This school is 100% in the business of teaching AT GRADE LEVEL and providing a ton of support for kids who are behind. But zero, nothing for kids who are ahead, even many years ahead.

Maybe it's different across the park where the array of ability is much wider. At a school like Janney, I'd guess you have 75% of kids functioning very easily at grade level. 20% who lag behind in some way and 5% who are ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ive had kids in both.

Wotp is as good ad, and sometimes better, than moco up to grade 3. The dc class sizes are smaller with more extras.

After that, the best dc students leave and the teaching is less effective because there is limited differentiation.

In my kids' grades, two kids left in 4th and they were not "the best." Our experience of differentiation was quite good, which is why kids arrive at Deal with 2 and 3 different levels of math in spite of having the exact same teachers in 4th and 5th. And ELA is obviously differentiated in elementary school.