no trolling - comparing MoCo vs WOTP DCPS schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of this goes to the original topic.

Unless someone sends twins to one of each we will just never know and will have to pay attention to our kids to make sure they are getting what they need. No school or school system is perfect. Most people on here know virtually nothing about schools their children did not attend, it confirmation bias leads us all to think we chose the best for our children. Consider yourself lucky if you are happy with the school your child is in. Test scores are only good for trends as there is a new “winner” every year.

That's silly. Of course there are observable outcomes for schools in the form of test scores, average and by demographic group, (which don't shift that much year to year) and college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look let’s just end the thread now. Here is the deal with DCPS.

We live in DC, love the city, and want to stay in the city. But our eyes are wide open to the weakness of DCPS in upper elementary, and much worst middle and high school. We know there is no tracking, and the advance kids are not fully challenged. Our child is young, and when the time comes when we see that this becomes a problem, we are going private. For families who can’t afford it, they either move to the burbs or try to supplement extensively outside of school with tutors, etc..,

Parents with advance students who don’t supplement extensively and want to delude themselves that they are being adequately challenged can continue to do so. But eventually they will face reality whether that be SAT scores, applying to test in high schools, or in college.

how about if I actually don't care that my child is "adequately challenged" (whatever that means) because I believe he is naturally intelligent and creative? Also, have you seen Wilson and Wall's college acceptance stats? Do you think the kids at Banneker aren't challenged?

anyway, enjoy the burbs, with all their adequate challenges.

It’s obvious you did not thoroughly read the post. They are going private if DCPS doesn’t meet their child’s needs, not to the burbs.

You are an outlier then if you don’t care to challenge your child. Most of us do. Good luck with that “naturally intelligent” in the real cut throat world.

My goal is to send a smart kid to college who is not burned out and is not an anxious mess. That's how I was raised, and all my siblings, and we did great. It's called inculcating self-motivation and self-direction. Highly prized on the job market. Meanwhile have fun at Kumon.

It’s obvious PP child is not in the high performing advance group.

[Anonymous]

^^ some kids ask to do the enrichment. dont be so busy judging others.

[Anonymous]

Guys it’s “advanced” not “advance kids.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of this goes to the original topic.

Unless someone sends twins to one of each we will just never know and will have to pay attention to our kids to make sure they are getting what they need. No school or school system is perfect. Most people on here know virtually nothing about schools their children did not attend, it confirmation bias leads us all to think we chose the best for our children. Consider yourself lucky if you are happy with the school your child is in. Test scores are only good for trends as there is a new “winner” every year.

That's silly. Of course there are observable outcomes for schools in the form of test scores, average and by demographic group, (which don't shift that much year to year) and college admissions.

Test scores - the DC elementary schools that are being debated here all have strong scores, but they fluctuate so “No. 1” this year is not likely “No 1” next year, also, reliance on test scores is undermined by statements of “they score high only because they teach to the test”. In the high schools there is only one testing grade and the strongest math students tested out in middle school.

Demographics - maybe, but demographics are changing at the high school as the boundary changes flow through. The class of 2023 will look very different than the class of 2019.

College Admissions- that is kind of a crap shoot too at the highest levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look let’s just end the thread now. Here is the deal with DCPS.

We live in DC, love the city, and want to stay in the city. But our eyes are wide open to the weakness of DCPS in upper elementary, and much worst middle and high school. We know there is no tracking, and the advance kids are not fully challenged. Our child is young, and when the time comes when we see that this becomes a problem, we are going private. For families who can’t afford it, they either move to the burbs or try to supplement extensively outside of school with tutors, etc..,

Parents with advance students who don’t supplement extensively and want to delude themselves that they are being adequately challenged can continue to do so. But eventually they will face reality whether that be SAT scores, applying to test in high schools, or in college.

how about if I actually don't care that my child is "adequately challenged" (whatever that means) because I believe he is naturally intelligent and creative? Also, have you seen Wilson and Wall's college acceptance stats? Do you think the kids at Banneker aren't challenged?

anyway, enjoy the burbs, with all their adequate challenges.

It’s obvious you did not thoroughly read the post. They are going private if DCPS doesn’t meet their child’s needs, not to the burbs.

You are an outlier then if you don’t care to challenge your child. Most of us do. Good luck with that “naturally intelligent” in the real cut throat world.

My goal is to send a smart kid to college who is not burned out and is not an anxious mess. That's how I was raised, and all my siblings, and we did great. It's called inculcating self-motivation and self-direction. Highly prized on the job market. Meanwhile have fun at Kumon.

It’s obvious PP child is not in the high performing advance group.

He's at the top of his class in reading and math (per most recent parent-teacher conference.) It's funny that you think high-acheiving and intelligent kids need to be tiger mommed. They don't.

[Anonymous]

If you have a math prodigy (as some have referred to), you may need to look for something different to get your child's needs met. I think the magnet program at Montgomery Blair in MoCo is excellent (a friend's true math prodigy child was well served there). There is nothing like that in DC. Such kids are also quite rare, my run of the mill gifted but not THAT gifted kids are doing fine in the JKLM/Deal feeder pattern and we are looking at Walls for high school. We do a lot to keep them engaged and interested in the world outside of school too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the Janney parent above and there is zero formal differentiation at Janney. My kids did (and do) well with no effort and always get 5's on the PARCC. When we asked about more, it was suggested that they join the lunch time math club. My neighbor's kid is a true prodigy (doing math 5 grades up, etc). The parents had many meetings and were also provided with nothing except for suggestions about the math club and for a few weeks one year their kids was given extra work-sheets. They were far more frustrated than we were because they have a kid who truly needs differentiation and was bored out of his mind (but well behaved because he's a quiet kid) and the school provided nothing year after year. This school is 100% in the business of teaching AT GRADE LEVEL and providing a ton of support for kids who are behind. But zero, nothing for kids who are ahead, even many years ahead.

Maybe it's different across the park where the array of ability is much wider. At a school like Janney, I'd guess you have 75% of kids functioning very easily at grade level. 20% who lag behind in some way and 5% who are ahead.

No, it’s worst EOTP. Except for the CH schools the majority of kids (60-75%) are not even at grade level. Below or well below, so the achievement gap is much greater. The focus is just getting these kids up to grade level. Kids who are at or above grade level are bored. This is evident in 1st or 2nd, why parents bail in 3rd and 4th. It’s also why charter spots in the lottery are competitive and in demand because there, at least 1/2 kids or so are at grade level and the achievement gap is not as wide.

+1 Take a look at the share of Wilson students meeting basic proficiency standards. Just 22% of students meet basic proficiency standards for math. And this is supposedly DC's best, wealthiest non-magnet high school. Meanwhile just across the border at BCC, 90% of students meet basic proficiency standards for math.

This is comparing apples to oranges. Wilson’s student body doesn’t reflect BCC’s population. You can make yourself feel better that MoCo is superior if that is what you need to do. I am happy living in DC and like my kids having to do class projects with students who aren’t the best scoring or not your average BCC student. In the long run, my kids are learning how to communicate and work with kids from different backgrounds and with different challenges. I don’t run my life according to test scores; they’re only one piece of the whole picture.

Wilson has a FARMS population of 11%. BCC has a FARMS population of 12%. The populations are similar yet there is a huge performance gap.

Wilson has a FARMS rate of 22%. I'm pretty sure you misread Special Education as FARMS.

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have a math prodigy (as some have referred to), you may need to look for something different to get your child's needs met. I think the magnet program at Montgomery Blair in MoCo is excellent (a friend's true math prodigy child was well served there). There is nothing like that in DC. Such kids are also quite rare, my run of the mill gifted but not THAT gifted kids are doing fine in the JKLM/Deal feeder pattern and we are looking at Walls for high school. We do a lot to keep them engaged and interested in the world outside of school too.

Agree with this. At our JKLM school of 100+ kids/grade there were two truly gifted kids in my kid's class. Both moved out of area to schools that could better serve them. The rest of the "very bright but not teaching themselves to do Algebra in their spare time" kids did fine at our JKLM and now Deal.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, my kids go to a WOTP DCPS elementary and I worked in MCPS elementary schools in Bethesda and Chevy Chase. They are are incredibly similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the Janney parent above and there is zero formal differentiation at Janney. My kids did (and do) well with no effort and always get 5's on the PARCC. When we asked about more, it was suggested that they join the lunch time math club. My neighbor's kid is a true prodigy (doing math 5 grades up, etc). The parents had many meetings and were also provided with nothing except for suggestions about the math club and for a few weeks one year their kids was given extra work-sheets. They were far more frustrated than we were because they have a kid who truly needs differentiation and was bored out of his mind (but well behaved because he's a quiet kid) and the school provided nothing year after year. This school is 100% in the business of teaching AT GRADE LEVEL and providing a ton of support for kids who are behind. But zero, nothing for kids who are ahead, even many years ahead.

Maybe it's different across the park where the array of ability is much wider. At a school like Janney, I'd guess you have 75% of kids functioning very easily at grade level. 20% who lag behind in some way and 5% who are ahead.

No, it’s worst EOTP. Except for the CH schools the majority of kids (60-75%) are not even at grade level. Below or well below, so the achievement gap is much greater. The focus is just getting these kids up to grade level. Kids who are at or above grade level are bored. This is evident in 1st or 2nd, why parents bail in 3rd and 4th. It’s also why charter spots in the lottery are competitive and in demand because there, at least 1/2 kids or so are at grade level and the achievement gap is not as wide.

+1 Take a look at the share of Wilson students meeting basic proficiency standards. Just 22% of students meet basic proficiency standards for math. And this is supposedly DC's best, wealthiest non-magnet high school. Meanwhile just across the border at BCC, 90% of students meet basic proficiency standards for math.

This is comparing apples to oranges. Wilson’s student body doesn’t reflect BCC’s population. You can make yourself feel better that MoCo is superior if that is what you need to do. I am happy living in DC and like my kids having to do class projects with students who aren’t the best scoring or not your average BCC student. In the long run, my kids are learning how to communicate and work with kids from different backgrounds and with different challenges. I don’t run my life according to test scores; they’re only one piece of the whole picture.

Wilson has a FARMS population of 11%. BCC has a FARMS population of 12%. The populations are similar yet there is a huge performance gap.

Wilson has a FARMS rate of 22%. I'm pretty sure you misread Special Education as FARMS.

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School

Nope. It’s data reported on niche that shows % of students receiving free lunch. They try to make data comparable across jurisdictions so perhaps they don’t report things exactly as DCPS does.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in Montgomery County and went to MCPS schools. I don't recall my school having a gifted program for elementar; I got into a magnet for middle that I chose not to attend, then went to the countywide IB magnet for HS.

I don't want to live in Montgomery County now, so I don't really care if MCPS schools might be marginally better than the WOTP schools my kids will go to. They'll do great in DCPS, and if I've done fine in life without being in a GT track for elementary school, so will they.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Montgomery County and went to MCPS schools. I don't recall my school having a gifted program for elementar; I got into a magnet for middle that I chose not to attend, then went to the countywide IB magnet for HS.

I don't want to live in Montgomery County now, so I don't really care if MCPS schools might be marginally better than the WOTP schools my kids will go to. They'll do great in DCPS, and if I've done fine in life without being in a GT track for elementary school, so will they.

Not sure when you grew up in MCPS, but there's definitely gifted programs in elementary in MCPS starting at 3rd grade. One elementary school for each cluster will host the gifted program, and kids from other schools nearby are bused in. Even for younger kids, they have "enrichment" materials for reading and math that are provided starting in kindergarten if your kid is performing 2 grade levels above where they are required to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the Janney parent above and there is zero formal differentiation at Janney. My kids did (and do) well with no effort and always get 5's on the PARCC. When we asked about more, it was suggested that they join the lunch time math club. My neighbor's kid is a true prodigy (doing math 5 grades up, etc). The parents had many meetings and were also provided with nothing except for suggestions about the math club and for a few weeks one year their kids was given extra work-sheets. They were far more frustrated than we were because they have a kid who truly needs differentiation and was bored out of his mind (but well behaved because he's a quiet kid) and the school provided nothing year after year. This school is 100% in the business of teaching AT GRADE LEVEL and providing a ton of support for kids who are behind. But zero, nothing for kids who are ahead, even many years ahead.

Maybe it's different across the park where the array of ability is much wider. At a school like Janney, I'd guess you have 75% of kids functioning very easily at grade level. 20% who lag behind in some way and 5% who are ahead.

No, it’s worst EOTP. Except for the CH schools the majority of kids (60-75%) are not even at grade level. Below or well below, so the achievement gap is much greater. The focus is just getting these kids up to grade level. Kids who are at or above grade level are bored. This is evident in 1st or 2nd, why parents bail in 3rd and 4th. It’s also why charter spots in the lottery are competitive and in demand because there, at least 1/2 kids or so are at grade level and the achievement gap is not as wide.

+1 Take a look at the share of Wilson students meeting basic proficiency standards. Just 22% of students meet basic proficiency standards for math. And this is supposedly DC's best, wealthiest non-magnet high school. Meanwhile just across the border at BCC, 90% of students meet basic proficiency standards for math.

This is comparing apples to oranges. Wilson’s student body doesn’t reflect BCC’s population. You can make yourself feel better that MoCo is superior if that is what you need to do. I am happy living in DC and like my kids having to do class projects with students who aren’t the best scoring or not your average BCC student. In the long run, my kids are learning how to communicate and work with kids from different backgrounds and with different challenges. I don’t run my life according to test scores; they’re only one piece of the whole picture.

Wilson has a FARMS population of 11%. BCC has a FARMS population of 12%. The populations are similar yet there is a huge performance gap.

Wilson has a FARMS rate of 22%. I'm pretty sure you misread Special Education as FARMS.

http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School

Nope. It’s data reported on niche that shows % of students receiving free lunch. They try to make data comparable across jurisdictions so perhaps they don’t report things exactly as DCPS does.

+1
https://www.niche.com/k12/woodrow-wilson-high-school-washington-dc/
Wilson-Free or Reduced Lunch 11%

https://www.niche.com/k12/bethesda-chevy-chase-high-school-bethesda-md/
BCC-Free or Reduced Lunch 12%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in Montgomery County and went to MCPS schools. I don't recall my school having a gifted program for elementar; I got into a magnet for middle that I chose not to attend, then went to the countywide IB magnet for HS.

I don't want to live in Montgomery County now, so I don't really care if MCPS schools might be marginally better than the WOTP schools my kids will go to. They'll do great in DCPS, and if I've done fine in life without being in a GT track for elementary school, so will they.

Not sure when you grew up in MCPS, but there's definitely gifted programs in elementary in MCPS starting at 3rd grade. One elementary school for each cluster will host the gifted program, and kids from other schools nearby are bused in. Even for younger kids, they have "enrichment" materials for reading and math that are provided starting in kindergarten if your kid is performing 2 grade levels above where they are required to be.

I'm not sure what a huge difference that makes. Personally, I'm happy that my kid has never had a class size bigger than 20 in his DCPS. That makes much more of a difference in the quality of the year.