The very definition of "standardized" means same test/same testing conditions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want employees who can do the job in the alotted time. I want to know who cant before I hire them.

Since SAT's aren't used in hiring, that's not really relevant.

Actually some companies have asked for these scores - with grade inflation etc they want to know but now either the abuse and accommodations, it will fall back to who you know.

Really? What major companies are doing that? If you are hiring a college grad, why would you care about 4-5 year old scores? If it’s someone who did not go to college, they may not even have an SAT score. I find this hard to believe and would love to see a source.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of misunderstanding going on in this thread. Accommodations have been a thing for quite some time; the world is not suddenly ending.

Processing speed as a technical term in the world of ed psych does not refer to general thinking speed. Instead, it involves visual and general motor speed (including fine motor skill, hand-eye coordination, etc.), functions of the nervous system. Slow reading can be part of the issue, but it's much more than even that.

Accommodations have been around for ages, yes, but the abuse of those accommodations and the sheer number of students needing them is alarming.

When a class has so many students with accommodations that it is easier for the non-accommodation students to join another classroom to take the test instead of having all the others leave for the learning/testing center, that's a red flag, IMO. My 10th grader has this issue in his Chemistry class. His teacher and the neighboring teacher hold their tests on the same day because his class has so many students with accommodations that it's easier for the 8 without to go next door than for the 16 with to leave for the testing center.

It's just like the emotional support animal people ruining it for legit service dogs with their abuse of places not being able to ask any questions other than "is it a service animal and what service does it provide?" When I see a dog in the grocery store, my first reaction now is to watch its behavior to see if it is well behaved (real service dog) or badly behaved (fake). When I hear a friend talking about their kid's accommodations, my first reaction is to try to figure out if her kid really has a disability or if her kid is just stupid and they figured out a way to game the system.

It seems to me, anecdotally of course, that the prevalence of accommodations (with potential, but not certainty, for greater numbers of abusers where there is a substantially higher prevalence) varies geographically, such as where there is greater societal pressure to attend a top school. However, factors behind an increased prevalence at especially academically demanding high schools may be multi-faceted.

I have a 10th grader who suddenly started struggling with focus and concentration in the past 12 months, enough for adhd diagnosis. We are addressing through other means (vision issue through vision therapy et al.), and an accommodation request is not in our current plan. I just want to point out that this does happen. And we will be full of second-guessing -- if our methods are not effective, should we have gotten accommodations for him, heading into his junior year? Are we making an unwise choice? Time is running out. Ultimately I don't think it will matter much as his grades have taken enough of a hit that top-40-ish schools are likely off the table.

[Anonymous]

Just like I want to know how many kids you have at home that may cause issues when I'm hiring you, I want to know what kind of special accommodations you need to work for me.

A standing desk and a special chair? Done. Want to balance on a ball? Take two! If I give you a project that takes 3 others on your team 10 days to complete and you tell me you need 20... eh, not so much. Why would I hire someone who needs double the amount of time to complete one task? For the same salary I can find one who can do it in 10 days like the others.

I predict more self employment and entrepreneurship in the future, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. No way these ADHD kids to adults are going to make it in a normal 9-5 setting with strict deadlines.

I bet disclosing their special accommodations would dissuade parents from having their kids tank the screening tests to get the diagnosis. If I require you to send me you college transcript and I saw that you made a 4.0 at Yale but needed twice the time of the 3.5 kid from JMU, I'm passing on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of misunderstanding going on in this thread. Accommodations have been a thing for quite some time; the world is not suddenly ending.

Processing speed as a technical term in the world of ed psych does not refer to general thinking speed. Instead, it involves visual and general motor speed (including fine motor skill, hand-eye coordination, etc.), functions of the nervous system. Slow reading can be part of the issue, but it's much more than even that.

Accommodations have been around for ages, yes, but the abuse of those accommodations and the sheer number of students needing them is alarming.

When a class has so many students with accommodations that it is easier for the non-accommodation students to join another classroom to take the test instead of having all the others leave for the learning/testing center, that's a red flag, IMO. My 10th grader has this issue in his Chemistry class. His teacher and the neighboring teacher hold their tests on the same day because his class has so many students with accommodations that it's easier for the 8 without to go next door than for the 16 with to leave for the testing center.

It's just like the emotional support animal people ruining it for legit service dogs with their abuse of places not being able to ask any questions other than "is it a service animal and what service does it provide?" When I see a dog in the grocery store, my first reaction now is to watch its behavior to see if it is well behaved (real service dog) or badly behaved (fake). When I hear a friend talking about their kid's accommodations, my first reaction is to try to figure out if her kid really has a disability or if her kid is just stupid and they figured out a way to game the system.

It seems to me, anecdotally of course, that the prevalence of accommodations (with potential, but not certainty, for greater numbers of abusers where there is a substantially higher prevalence) varies geographically, such as where there is greater societal pressure to attend a top school. However, factors behind an increased prevalence at especially academically demanding high schools may be multi-faceted.

I have a 10th grader who suddenly started struggling with focus and concentration in the past 12 months, enough for adhd diagnosis. We are addressing through other means (vision issue through vision therapy et al.), and an accommodation request is not in our current plan. I just want to point out that this does happen. And we will be full of second-guessing -- if our methods are not effective, should we have gotten accommodations for him, heading into his junior year? Are we making an unwise choice? Time is running out. Ultimately I don't think it will matter much as his grades have taken enough of a hit that top-40-ish schools are likely off the table.

umm, puberty? who doesn't struggle with concentration in high school? and i say that as a nerd who put school over everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.

when Chinese take over there will be no accommodations whatsoever.

Ha! The biggest accommodation cheat in my kid’s school is Chinese! My child is very close friends with the student so I actually know the student is a cheat.

yeah, but there won't be any real accommodation. i mean, they won't even pretend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.

Sure it will. Your kid will have a hard time in a top 20 school bc of his SN.

LOL, I doubt that very much as he got a 36 on the act and had a 4.2 GPA -- extremely gifted. They also have accommodations in the top 20 school. And his processing speed has been improving, so maybe he won't need the accommodations. Nice try again. Jealous your kid only got in his safety I guess

Your kid has Special Needs, received an IEP and 504. He would not have scored highly on the standardized tests or in school otherwise. His slow processing speed will be an issue in college and in the workplace. I suppose he can find a job that has accommodations for his SN too.

LOL, my kid went to private school. He had "accommodations," not a 504 or IEP. He scored a 36 on the ACT with time and a half. He scored a 33 taking the mock test as a sophomore. He is every bright, just slow processing. He will be fine in the workplace because he is gifted in math and will probably go into data science. There is something for everyone out there. Laughable how people think someone with ADHD cannot succeed. My husband has ADHD (not diagnosed until adulthood) and he earns $700K as a consultant. So there you have it. Nice try again though!!

This is the problem. Rich people can buy their children entrance anywhere.

I have no doubt that your DH can afford as many specialists as it takes to get your son any diagnosis he needs. And when it’s time to apply for jobs I’m sure your DH’s network will open many doors that would otherwise be closed. None of this has anything to do with your kid’s abilities (or lack thereof.)

This gradual erosion of meritocracy is creates an uniquely American aristocracy. It’s the reason that the US is in decline and China is not. We’re suppressing real talent to support the illusion that lower performing rich kids really are the best and brightest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like I want to know how many kids you have at home that may cause issues when I'm hiring you, I want to know what kind of special accommodations you need to work for me.

A standing desk and a special chair? Done. Want to balance on a ball? Take two! If I give you a project that takes 3 others on your team 10 days to complete and you tell me you need 20... eh, not so much. Why would I hire someone who needs double the amount of time to complete one task? For the same salary I can find one who can do it in 10 days like the others.

I predict more self employment and entrepreneurship in the future, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. No way these ADHD kids to adults are going to make it in a normal 9-5 setting with strict deadlines.

I bet disclosing their special accommodations would dissuade parents from having their kids tank the screening tests to get the diagnosis. If I require you to send me you college transcript and I saw that you made a 4.0 at Yale but needed twice the time of the 3.5 kid from JMU, I'm passing on you.

Holy cow! You do realize you can’t ask someone how many children they have at home for that exact reason, right? It’s Illegal and none of your business. They may have “accommodations “ (aka childcare or a stay at home spouse) to address their child handicap. (Eyeroll). Do you ask that of men, too, or just women? This tells me all I need to know about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid has a slow processing speed they deserve a lower score. This charade will end soon. Affluent parents gaming the system so their kid can bump their 1400 to a 1500 is going to end. They have to have a non-timed test, call it something else and offer it as an addition to the traditional ACT or SAT. Call it the NTSAT (non-timed SAT) offer to anyone with a 504 or to any kid who doesn't want to take the SAT with time constraints. Let the colleges then decide then. But the colleges should KNOW who is getting more time on these tests and this seems like the only fair way. NO MORE EXTRA TIME ON SAT OR ACT FOR ANYONE

Guess what? These kids' future employers are going to provide assistance and considerations, too. Are you going to come whine that junior didn't get a job at Acme Co but the deaf person who needs an interpreter did? Come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.

Sure it will. Your kid will have a hard time in a top 20 school bc of his SN.

LOL, I doubt that very much as he got a 36 on the act and had a 4.2 GPA -- extremely gifted. They also have accommodations in the top 20 school. And his processing speed has been improving, so maybe he won't need the accommodations. Nice try again. Jealous your kid only got in his safety I guess

Your kid has Special Needs, received an IEP and 504. He would not have scored highly on the standardized tests or in school otherwise. His slow processing speed will be an issue in college and in the workplace. I suppose he can find a job that has accommodations for his SN too.

LOL, my kid went to private school. He had "accommodations," not a 504 or IEP. He scored a 36 on the ACT with time and a half. He scored a 33 taking the mock test as a sophomore. He is every bright, just slow processing. He will be fine in the workplace because he is gifted in math and will probably go into data science. There is something for everyone out there. Laughable how people think someone with ADHD cannot succeed. My husband has ADHD (not diagnosed until adulthood) and he earns $700K as a consultant. So there you have it. Nice try again though!!

DP.. and yet somehow your DH was able to get to where he is without accommodations when he took the SATs right?

[Anonymous]

Rich people buy their way into top colleges through donations.

Rich people buy their way into top colleges through the side door.

Rich people "buy" their way into top colleges through getting SN diagnosis.

Basically, the idea of meritocracy in higher ed is only applicable to the not so rich class. In this regard (and some others), the US is worse than most of the other developed countries.

We are encouraging our DCs to apply to colleges in the UK. They are dual citizens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want employees who can do the job in the alotted time. I want to know who cant before I hire them.

Since SAT's aren't used in hiring, that's not really relevant.

Actually some companies have asked for these scores - with grade inflation etc they want to know but now either the abuse and accommodations, it will fall back to who you know.

Really? What major companies are doing that? If you are hiring a college grad, why would you care about 4-5 year old scores? If it’s someone who did not go to college, they may not even have an SAT score. I find this hard to believe and would love to see a source.

Top companies like Google still look at your GPA even if you are not a recent grad. They asked for my college GPA. I had been out of college for 20 years.

Also, companies like Google ask a lot of brain teaser questions. If you take too long, they won't be impressed. They like people who can think quickly and on their feet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like I want to know how many kids you have at home that may cause issues when I'm hiring you, I want to know what kind of special accommodations you need to work for me.

A standing desk and a special chair? Done. Want to balance on a ball? Take two! If I give you a project that takes 3 others on your team 10 days to complete and you tell me you need 20... eh, not so much. Why would I hire someone who needs double the amount of time to complete one task? For the same salary I can find one who can do it in 10 days like the others.

I predict more self employment and entrepreneurship in the future, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. No way these ADHD kids to adults are going to make it in a normal 9-5 setting with strict deadlines.

I bet disclosing their special accommodations would dissuade parents from having their kids tank the screening tests to get the diagnosis. If I require you to send me you college transcript and I saw that you made a 4.0 at Yale but needed twice the time of the 3.5 kid from JMU, I'm passing on you.

First and last bolding: Illegal hiring practices.
Second bolding: A complete misunderstanding of LDs and how they work.
Second to last bolding: And yet, ADHD adults RIGHT now are in the workplace. And they have been for a couple or so decades of diagnoses and accommodations. And they are doing just fine.

Overall, you are wrong on just about every single count.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.

when Chinese take over there will be no accommodations whatsoever.

Ha! The biggest accommodation cheat in my kid’s school is Chinese! My child is very close friends with the student so I actually know the student is a cheat.

If rich people in the US can game the system, why can't the Chinese? The way the system is setup, it's too easy to be able to game the system and cheat. Maybe if the system was different, this Chinese kid wouldn't be able to cheat the system, like the other real American parents do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just like I want to know how many kids you have at home that may cause issues when I'm hiring you, I want to know what kind of special accommodations you need to work for me.

A standing desk and a special chair? Done. Want to balance on a ball? Take two! If I give you a project that takes 3 others on your team 10 days to complete and you tell me you need 20... eh, not so much. Why would I hire someone who needs double the amount of time to complete one task? For the same salary I can find one who can do it in 10 days like the others.

I predict more self employment and entrepreneurship in the future, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. No way these ADHD kids to adults are going to make it in a normal 9-5 setting with strict deadlines.

I bet disclosing their special accommodations would dissuade parents from having their kids tank the screening tests to get the diagnosis. If I require you to send me you college transcript and I saw that you made a 4.0 at Yale but needed twice the time of the 3.5 kid from JMU, I'm passing on you.

First and last bolding: Illegal hiring practices.
Second bolding: A complete misunderstanding of LDs and how they work.
Second to last bolding: And yet, ADHD adults RIGHT now are in the workplace. And they have been for a couple or so decades of diagnoses and accommodations. And they are doing just fine.

Overall, you are wrong on just about every single count.

Again.. and somehow, these adults managed to do alright without adjustments to the SATs.

I don't know.. we hear a lot of people complaining about the younger millenials in the work place. Maybe they were given too much accommodations when they were younger and now as adults, they have a harder time dealing with life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want employees who can do the job in the alotted time. I want to know who cant before I hire them.

Since SAT's aren't used in hiring, that's not really relevant.

Actually some companies have asked for these scores - with grade inflation etc they want to know but now either the abuse and accommodations, it will fall back to who you know.

Nobody worthwhile is asking for SAT scores.