Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

But why should so much money be spent accommodating your child when other children’s schools are not given money for basics like textbooks? Oh right, because you’re UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

But why should so much money be spent accommodating your child when other children’s schools are not given money for basics like textbooks? Oh right, because you’re UMC.

Why should some kids get free breakfast at school when other schools can’t pay for textbooks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

But why should so much money be spent accommodating your child when other children’s schools are not given money for basics like textbooks? Oh right, because you’re UMC.

Why should some kids get free breakfast at school when other schools can’t pay for textbooks?

The federal government pays for those free breakfasts. Should the federal government pay for textbooks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It cost $3000 to have a qualified doctor do the testing for accommodations and you have to do it every 3 years to get accommodations.

This. If you are "poor" you can't afford to get accommodations, even if your child needs them.

Technically speaking doesn't every C student need accommodations to get better grades? Why are some C students deemed worthy of needing accommodations but not others? Are we now at a point where we believe C students should no longer exist? Should we simply remove the word average from the dictionary?

No, not all C students have disabilities, no, no.[/quote]



Yeah, but with appropriate "accomodations" all C students could do better, even if what is causing them to be a C student is average intellect. What about one on one tutoring? That's certainly an accomodation. Wouldn't that most likely push a "non LD" C student into B category?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can have an LD and still be stupid, a bad student, or a C student. You can have ADHD and still get Cs and still be a below average student.

What is this fixation with calling children stupid?

I’m just using the words used by posters on this thread. A pp before my original post said something like, “if we didn’t find out dd was dyslexic people would just assume she were stupid.”

I don’t like the word, stupid, for kids. But a few posters have used it to describe kids who struggle in school and don’t have a diagnosis. That’s terrible! My original post was meant to point out that just because your kid has a diagnosis it doesn’t magically make them no longer struggle in school. It’s not some excuse. An average student is an average student with or without a diagnosis.

Most kids with LDd are still below average students. That’s just a fact.

. Please provide a link that backs your assertion.

By definition 50% kids are below average. Most kids with LDs are struggling students. I know there is a popular narrative among UMC parents that says kids with LDs are actually bright kids who are only average because of an LD, but that only exists in the UMC world. More than half of kids with LDs are struggling at the bottom of the class.

I am the OP and as I stated previously my daughter is a struggling student, we will most likely have her tested, and I'm guessing that she will walk away with a label. But I'm pragmatic enough to realize that what this actually means that she is just not as bright as others - at least in some areas.

Something that’s taken off in recent years is this wonderful idea that we should celebrate neurodiversity. And it is exactly how you describe. Your child has strengths and weaknesses.

Yes, even the C student who doesn’t have a diagnosis has strengths and weaknesses.

My child has dyslexia/dysgraphia. She has strengths and weaknesses. I love to think about her particular intelligence profile is a gift. But reality is she has deficits. ALL KIDS WITH LDS DO. It’s not so much that she thinks differently (neurodiversity). She does. But she also has a brain defect. And that is never going to go away.

We are happy that she is improving upon her weaknesses and her strengths shine, but I don’t pretend she’s any different from an average student when she performs in an average way.

There will always be a bell curve. Most kids with LDs fall somewhere in the middle because they get supports. Without them they would be at the tail end. Im not sure why this is being debated. That is how you get an LD diagnosis. Sure kids can have strengths that fall far above that. But the deficits were or still are painfully and obviously low.

OP here. This is my beef as well. It seems ridiculous to pretend that someone who is performing at a mediocre level because of an LD is somehow superior to someone who is performing at a mediocre level due to a "flat iq profile". Either way they are both mediocre and both would do better with extra help. Fact is both have something going on with their brain that keeps them from achieving at a higher level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?

Research scientist again - no.

This is what neuropsychological testing does: it susses out whether you are functioning in approximately the same way for all aspects of cognitive and processing skills. If you are, then nothing is wrong with you, and you are functioning at your potential. If there is a statistically significant discrepancy between one or other of your subscores, then that's a red flag for a learning disability that is holding you back. And for many such disabilities, there's not much that can be done that has been proven to work. For some, there is, and that's where school services and accommodations come in.

Learning disabilities have nothing to do with how smart you are (and then there's the tricky question of how you define intelligence). Learning disabilities and mental health disorders deserve to be treated just as seriously as physical illness and physical conditions, do you know why? Because they ARE physical conditions! Located in the brain, that's all. They are a reflection of brain trauma, or neuronal connectors gone awry, or neurotransmitter imbalance, etc... and it's only recently that we've recognized "mental issues" to be brain dysfunctions just like liver dysfunction or any other organ dysfunction.

If there is a significant discrepancy between one or other of your subscores than that IS your potential. You are significantly weaker in some cognitive areas than others. You are not going to perform the same as someone who scores higher across the board. That's not a learning disability. That's the person's intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?

Research scientist again - no.

This is what neuropsychological testing does: it susses out whether you are functioning in approximately the same way for all aspects of cognitive and processing skills. If you are, then nothing is wrong with you, and you are functioning at your potential. If there is a statistically significant discrepancy between one or other of your subscores, then that's a red flag for a learning disability that is holding you back. And for many such disabilities, there's not much that can be done that has been proven to work. For some, there is, and that's where school services and accommodations come in.

Learning disabilities have nothing to do with how smart you are (and then there's the tricky question of how you define intelligence). Learning disabilities and mental health disorders deserve to be treated just as seriously as physical illness and physical conditions, do you know why? Because they ARE physical conditions! Located in the brain, that's all. They are a reflection of brain trauma, or neuronal connectors gone awry, or neurotransmitter imbalance, etc... and it's only recently that we've recognized "mental issues" to be brain dysfunctions just like liver dysfunction or any other organ dysfunction.

DP. You describe your DC as just like yourself and your DH, who are research scientists/academics. During your childhood, you experienced adversity and learned how to adjust or overcome it. Your DC isn't learning that. Are his accommodations more valuable than learning experiences?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems to be "the thing" now, that when you see an UMC kid who is a mediocre student, they will almost invariably have a diagnosis of having a learning disability or ADHD. Is there no such thing as a C student any more? Whatever happened to the idea that some kids just aren't great at school? Is that notion only acceptable for working class kids but not affluent kids?

Are you a teacher? If you are I know right now you are a crappy teacher. I have a bright dc with lds. Dc fought to get in some advanced classes (honors and aps) The wost teachers were mediocre students themselves and resent the accommodations my dc's iep provide.

You make it sound like this is the norm - it isn't. Most parents, even umcs, don't bother getting their kids tested. There is too much shame even in 2019. I hear and see many parents who refuse to do anything for kids who clearly have learning issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So sorry your above average kid is being surpassed by LD kids. They are smarter than your and will do better in life because they have parents who were willing to sacrifice to get them the supports they need to achieve to their potential--which is clearly higher than that of your own kids. So sorry.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]It cost $3000 to have a qualified doctor do the testing for accommodations and you have to do it every 3 years to get accommodations.[/b]

Ok, so if every C student had the ability to get private testing by a doctor, would they all come out with some sort of label? My guess is yes. At a minimum they would get adhd-inattentive.

BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes the parents feel better about having a rather stupid child.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Hahaha! I’m not ashamed, but the parents of these children certainly are. That’s why they flail around, looking for a “diagnosis”. Guess what, buttercup? The diagnosis is just that your kid ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed. Deal with it and stop looking for something to blame.

Tell us more about yourself pp. Are you a teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We test students at my school after what seems like a long time of no or little to no progress. Most of them don’t have a disability. They just have a lower than average IQ which explains the slow progress. Somebody has to be on the left of the bell curve.

If those kids were privately tested almost all of them would come away with a diagnosis. If you give enough tests something will come out high and something will be low. When you pay 3 to 5 thousand dollars, you get a diagnosis. A psychologist in private practice has a vested interest in diagnosing something because if they are conservative and say the kid is working up to his potential and there is no LD, the parents would get mad and not refer others and/or give out bad reviews. My sister-in- law is a psychologist in another state working in a city with plenty of families willing and able to pay for testing. I asked her if she ever tested and found nothing - no diagnosis whatsoever and she said no.

I work with an educational advocate and personally know several parents who paid for testing and there were no issues found. One child had medical issues that were impacting things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

But why should so much money be spent accommodating your child when other children’s schools are not given money for basics like textbooks? Oh right, because you’re UMC.

Why should some kids get free breakfast at school when other schools can’t pay for textbooks?

The federal government pays for those free breakfasts. Should the federal government pay for textbooks?

Doesn’t the federal govt fund IDEA-mandated services?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?

Research scientist again - no.

This is what neuropsychological testing does: it susses out whether you are functioning in approximately the same way for all aspects of cognitive and processing skills. If you are, then nothing is wrong with you, and you are functioning at your potential. If there is a statistically significant discrepancy between one or other of your subscores, then that's a red flag for a learning disability that is holding you back. And for many such disabilities, there's not much that can be done that has been proven to work. For some, there is, and that's where school services and accommodations come in.

Learning disabilities have nothing to do with how smart you are (and then there's the tricky question of how you define intelligence). Learning disabilities and mental health disorders deserve to be treated just as seriously as physical illness and physical conditions, do you know why? Because they ARE physical conditions! Located in the brain, that's all. They are a reflection of brain trauma, or neuronal connectors gone awry, or neurotransmitter imbalance, etc... and it's only recently that we've recognized "mental issues" to be brain dysfunctions just like liver dysfunction or any other organ dysfunction.

DP. You describe your DC as just like yourself and your DH, who are research scientists/academics. During your childhood, you experienced adversity and learned how to adjust or overcome it. Your DC isn't learning that. Are his accommodations more valuable than learning experiences?

This is a good point.

Someone mentioned successful dyslexics in business. Not that I really believe the veracity of this anecdata, but taken at face value, what does it mean?

Does it mean kids who have trouble reading have a gift for business?

Or does it mean kids, who somehow overcome difficulty with reading in elementary school, have the scrappy doggedness it takes to succeed in the business realm?

[Anonymous]

No one in my UMC family has ever been learning-disabled, and the kids being born now (my sisters' kids) are not learning-disabled either. However, my husband and I have a child by adoption who, despite presenting as very intelligent, could barely learn to read and write. After a few years of this, we got her tested and: dyslexia.

What can I say? We were not out looking for a diagnosis. We were just looking for some explanation why this apparently bright-by-every-other-metric child couldn't read or write. When you see it, it's quite a mystery, so you go looking for answers.