Why are so many UMC average students "Learning Disabled"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


OP here. I'm not saying that LD's do not exist at all and I would consider dyslexia to be an example of something that is more of a legitimate LD. But if you look over on the teen board, there is a thread along the lines of "would you leave your kid alone if they were making B's and C's. And the overwhelming consensus is no. Pretty much all the posters are saying that they do not consider C's acceptable. That's basically the issue. If a parent has a C student, they see that as a sign that something isn't right. They take the kid to a psychologist to get tested, and usually the kid will get some sort of diagnosis that could make them eligible for services. It may not be dyslexia, but very often it's adhd inattentive or a discrepancy in some area of intellect. My hunch is that if you dug deep enough, you can find some sort of label for almost any C student (especially the adhd label that could really apply to almost anyone). I'm also the poster with the nephew with the roommate from Exeter who said that about half the kids there supposedly have ADHD. The scary thing is that the parents probably aren't even trying to play the system. They see their kids having difficulty keeping up in a very competitive environment, and they legitimately think that the kid has some sort of problem.

Performing below their intellectual capability is a hallmark of LD and ADHD. You may be hearing that the only thing the parents care about is the grades, but there is more to the story. If a student is bright and does well in tests but gets barely passing grades, there is probably something going on. Or if the student is bright and has good knowledge of a subject but can't demonstrate that knowledge on a test, there is probably something going on. It would be negligent for a parent of that child not to dig further. Sadly, having the time and ability to dig further is somewhat correlated to SES.

I will always err on the side of trusting the parents/child. It's true that an average child with accommodations will see a slight improvement, but a very bright child with moderate to severe ADHD will have their potential wasted if they don't receive interventions and accommodations. It's not just about medications and extra time on tests, but helping teach them how to succeed and find their strengths. Schools know one way to teach and that way doesn't work for kids who aren't typical. Students who fall outside of typical need individualized approaches, whether that is speech to text software or explicit instruction and coaching on self-organization.

So what if a student performs poorly on both tests and classwork? Wouldn't you say that there is probably something going on? Would it be negligent for the parent not to dig further? Have we completely given up on the idea that some kids (even ones that are bright in other ways) might just suck in certain areas - or is that something that is now automatically regarded as being a disorder?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?

Research scientist again - no.

This is what neuropsychological testing does: it susses out whether you are functioning in approximately the same way for all aspects of cognitive and processing skills. If you are, then nothing is wrong with you, and you are functioning at your potential. If there is a statistically significant discrepancy between one or other of your subscores, then that's a red flag for a learning disability that is holding you back. And for many such disabilities, there's not much that can be done that has been proven to work. For some, there is, and that's where school services and accommodations come in.

Learning disabilities have nothing to do with how smart you are (and then there's the tricky question of how you define intelligence). Learning disabilities and mental health disorders deserve to be treated just as seriously as physical illness and physical conditions, do you know why? Because they ARE physical conditions! Located in the brain, that's all. They are a reflection of brain trauma, or neuronal connectors gone awry, or neurotransmitter imbalance, etc... and it's only recently that we've recognized "mental issues" to be brain dysfunctions just like liver dysfunction or any other organ dysfunction.

DP. You describe your DC as just like yourself and your DH, who are research scientists/academics. During your childhood, you experienced adversity and learned how to adjust or overcome it. Your DC isn't learning that. Are his accommodations more valuable than learning experiences?

Do you really think a few accommodations erases all the adversity that comes with dyslexia? Wouldn't that be a Shangri la.

No. It doesn’t. Which I think is the pp’s point. It is a brain defect—not an alternative way of thinking. There is no magic fix that makes him not dyslexic. The deficits are more than simply learning to read. Accommodations should only make education accessible to him. Some dyslexics will still be average students with accommodations. Some will be above average. But they will always struggle. At some point life offers no more accommodations. The children, no matter below average, averafe, or above average, who grow up into successful adults with LDs are those who have learned how to overcome it in all facets of life.

I don't think it is a defect, I think it is a different way of processing information. I don't think anybody is trying to fix dyslexia. They realize that the model of teaching.... read, memorize, regurgitate... doesn't teach dyslexic kids nor does it show what they have learned.

At some point in life they will stop reading, memorizing and writing papers. They won't need accommodations because they job will be in an area that is not reading and writing or if it is they will have an editor.

They will become successful because they will find a job that plays to their strengths not their weaknesses.

I work in IT, I work with tons of dyslexic people. We work in the medical field and I constantly have to explain to the engineers that most doctors... read, memorize and follow instructions... they can't just "figure it out" so we need to document everything down to the nth degree.... and be kind that they ask the same frickin question 5 times.

Often it's insane how dumb the MDs are (when you have the brain of an engineer)... do you know how long it took some to learn how to double click.... then use the screen touch/swipe down. Does that make them less smart because they are good at reading, writing and memorizing... no ... it's just different.

I have heard people say this many times when discussing LD or dyslexic kids - "they will eventually find success because they will gravitate to something that plays to their strengths". Do people who claim this not realize that there are plenty of unsuccessful people in this world? l have a friend whose sister is in her early 40's who still lives with her parents and has never really worked. A guy who lived in my neighborhood growing up is in his late 40's and has always worked a series of minimum wage jobs (that he keeps getting fired from) Both of these people come across as very normal and seem to be of at least high average IQ. But they have certainly not found success. Many people never do. I am genuinely confused by what people mean when they say this.

DP. I realize this. It’s easy to be optimistic about my child with an LD. But reality is that most kids with LDs will struggle into adulthood. For sure, no child is completely immune from adolescent pitfalls, but kids with LDs are even more susceptible. The adhd kid who becomes obsessed with video games? The dyslexic child whose self worth becomes so eroded she looks for validation in all the wrong places? The 2e student who becomes riddled with anxiety? For every wildly successful dyslexic there are probably three who are below the poverty line. For every kid with slow processing who finds a niche in IT or some other STEM thing, two others haven’t left their parents’ basement. A 2e kid gets into MIT. Another three 2e kids never gain meaningful employment.

I do think being UMC gives these kids a safety net other kids with LDs don’t have and will give them a huge advantage over even their mc counterparts.

How does being UMC give them a safety net once they are adults and on the job? Yes, UMC parents might be able to provide resources that make it possible for them to obtain a college degree, but then what? I can't get a tutor for my kid to help her perform her job better, and like I stated previously I do believe that it's quite common for people to never find jobs that play into their strengths, some disabilities really do make the majority of jobs almost impossible. So how does an UMC parent give their kid a safety net against that? Is it simply that they are able to provide them with a nicer basement to live in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?

Research scientist again - no.

This is what neuropsychological testing does: it susses out whether you are functioning in approximately the same way for all aspects of cognitive and processing skills. If you are, then nothing is wrong with you, and you are functioning at your potential. If there is a statistically significant discrepancy between one or other of your subscores, then that's a red flag for a learning disability that is holding you back. And for many such disabilities, there's not much that can be done that has been proven to work. For some, there is, and that's where school services and accommodations come in.

Learning disabilities have nothing to do with how smart you are (and then there's the tricky question of how you define intelligence). Learning disabilities and mental health disorders deserve to be treated just as seriously as physical illness and physical conditions, do you know why? Because they ARE physical conditions! Located in the brain, that's all. They are a reflection of brain trauma, or neuronal connectors gone awry, or neurotransmitter imbalance, etc... and it's only recently that we've recognized "mental issues" to be brain dysfunctions just like liver dysfunction or any other organ dysfunction.

DP. You describe your DC as just like yourself and your DH, who are research scientists/academics. During your childhood, you experienced adversity and learned how to adjust or overcome it. Your DC isn't learning that. Are his accommodations more valuable than learning experiences?

Do you really think a few accommodations erases all the adversity that comes with dyslexia? Wouldn't that be a Shangri la.

No. It doesn’t. Which I think is the pp’s point. It is a brain defect—not an alternative way of thinking. There is no magic fix that makes him not dyslexic. The deficits are more than simply learning to read. Accommodations should only make education accessible to him. Some dyslexics will still be average students with accommodations. Some will be above average. But they will always struggle. At some point life offers no more accommodations. The children, no matter below average, averafe, or above average, who grow up into successful adults with LDs are those who have learned how to overcome it in all facets of life.

I don't think it is a defect, I think it is a different way of processing information. I don't think anybody is trying to fix dyslexia. They realize that the model of teaching.... read, memorize, regurgitate... doesn't teach dyslexic kids nor does it show what they have learned.

At some point in life they will stop reading, memorizing and writing papers. They won't need accommodations because they job will be in an area that is not reading and writing or if it is they will have an editor.

They will become successful because they will find a job that plays to their strengths not their weaknesses.

I work in IT, I work with tons of dyslexic people. We work in the medical field and I constantly have to explain to the engineers that most doctors... read, memorize and follow instructions... they can't just "figure it out" so we need to document everything down to the nth degree.... and be kind that they ask the same frickin question 5 times.

Often it's insane how dumb the MDs are (when you have the brain of an engineer)... do you know how long it took some to learn how to double click.... then use the screen touch/swipe down. Does that make them less smart because they are good at reading, writing and memorizing... no ... it's just different.

Doctors are good at reading and memorizing. Lawyers too. But they also present on myriad cognitive profiles. Many of them have extremely high reasoning skills. Many also have extremely high processing speed. I think what the great majority of doctors have a profile that is globally gifted. Or st least globally above average. I don’t think it’s easy to have for example, high reasoning skills with low processing speed, and be a doctor. That does seem to work for other fields closely related to practicing medicine though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?

Research scientist again - no.

This is what neuropsychological testing does: it susses out whether you are functioning in approximately the same way for all aspects of cognitive and processing skills. If you are, then nothing is wrong with you, and you are functioning at your potential. If there is a statistically significant discrepancy between one or other of your subscores, then that's a red flag for a learning disability that is holding you back. And for many such disabilities, there's not much that can be done that has been proven to work. For some, there is, and that's where school services and accommodations come in.

Learning disabilities have nothing to do with how smart you are (and then there's the tricky question of how you define intelligence). Learning disabilities and mental health disorders deserve to be treated just as seriously as physical illness and physical conditions, do you know why? Because they ARE physical conditions! Located in the brain, that's all. They are a reflection of brain trauma, or neuronal connectors gone awry, or neurotransmitter imbalance, etc... and it's only recently that we've recognized "mental issues" to be brain dysfunctions just like liver dysfunction or any other organ dysfunction.

DP. You describe your DC as just like yourself and your DH, who are research scientists/academics. During your childhood, you experienced adversity and learned how to adjust or overcome it. Your DC isn't learning that. Are his accommodations more valuable than learning experiences?

Do you really think a few accommodations erases all the adversity that comes with dyslexia? Wouldn't that be a Shangri la.

No. It doesn’t. Which I think is the pp’s point. It is a brain defect—not an alternative way of thinking. There is no magic fix that makes him not dyslexic. The deficits are more than simply learning to read. Accommodations should only make education accessible to him. Some dyslexics will still be average students with accommodations. Some will be above average. But they will always struggle. At some point life offers no more accommodations. The children, no matter below average, averafe, or above average, who grow up into successful adults with LDs are those who have learned how to overcome it in all facets of life.

I don't think it is a defect, I think it is a different way of processing information. I don't think anybody is trying to fix dyslexia. They realize that the model of teaching.... read, memorize, regurgitate... doesn't teach dyslexic kids nor does it show what they have learned.

At some point in life they will stop reading, memorizing and writing papers. They won't need accommodations because they job will be in an area that is not reading and writing or if it is they will have an editor.

They will become successful because they will find a job that plays to their strengths not their weaknesses.

I work in IT, I work with tons of dyslexic people. We work in the medical field and I constantly have to explain to the engineers that most doctors... read, memorize and follow instructions... they can't just "figure it out" so we need to document everything down to the nth degree.... and be kind that they ask the same frickin question 5 times.

Often it's insane how dumb the MDs are (when you have the brain of an engineer)... do you know how long it took some to learn how to double click.... then use the screen touch/swipe down. Does that make them less smart because they are good at reading, writing and memorizing... no ... it's just different.

I have heard people say this many times when discussing LD or dyslexic kids - "they will eventually find success because they will gravitate to something that plays to their strengths". Do people who claim this not realize that there are plenty of unsuccessful people in this world? l have a friend whose sister is in her early 40's who still lives with her parents and has never really worked. A guy who lived in my neighborhood growing up is in his late 40's and has always worked a series of minimum wage jobs (that he keeps getting fired from) Both of these people come across as very normal and seem to be of at least high average IQ. But they have certainly not found success. Many people never do. I am genuinely confused by what people mean when they say this.

DP. I realize this. It’s easy to be optimistic about my child with an LD. But reality is that most kids with LDs will struggle into adulthood. For sure, no child is completely immune from adolescent pitfalls, but kids with LDs are even more susceptible. The adhd kid who becomes obsessed with video games? The dyslexic child whose self worth becomes so eroded she looks for validation in all the wrong places? The 2e student who becomes riddled with anxiety? For every wildly successful dyslexic there are probably three who are below the poverty line. For every kid with slow processing who finds a niche in IT or some other STEM thing, two others haven’t left their parents’ basement. A 2e kid gets into MIT. Another three 2e kids never gain meaningful employment.

I do think being UMC gives these kids a safety net other kids with LDs don’t have and will give them a huge advantage over even their mc counterparts.

How does being UMC give them a safety net once they are adults and on the job? Yes, UMC parents might be able to provide resources that make it possible for them to obtain a college degree, but then what? I can't get a tutor for my kid to help her perform her job better, and like I stated previously I do believe that it's quite common for people to never find jobs that play into their strengths, some disabilities really do make the majority of jobs almost impossible. So how does an UMC parent give their kid a safety net against that? Is it simply that they are able to provide them with a nicer basement to live in?

Ha. Kinda. I was referring to the safety net an UMC family can provide any child. Kid gets messed up in drugs? Wealthy kid goes to rehab. Poor kid goes to jail. Kid gets pregnant in high school? Wealthy kid is given the supports to continue education. Poor kid drops out. Kid goes to college and can’t handle the lack of discipline there? Wealthy kid comes home and can be set up to try again. That’s the poor kid’s last chance at college. Kid just can’t hack it in college even with supports? Wealthy kid is set up with a lucrative apprenticeship. Poor kid gets a job in retail. Just the normal UMC safety net stuff. Getting out of drug charges, dUIs, getting help with mistakes and fumbles early on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a research scientist and have a child who is "gifted and learning disabled".

Had he been born in my generation, he would just have been labeled quirky, slow, lazy, even stupid. He would have been teased and bullied and doors would have closed for him before middle school, despite his high IQ and potential to contribute to the world.

Now, thanks to progress in the field of mental health and the breakdown of societal taboos, he is known to have: moderate-to-severe ADHD, very low processing speed, and a severe impairment in his left-side motor skills (which reflect an impairment in his right hemisphere).
There are all related disorders.

I am SO GRATEFUL that he has accommodation at school and that teachers and students are trained to be understanding and not dismissive!!!

In return, he is a mellow, courteous person, and if he is given the chance, he's got the intellect to be a researcher/academic just like his parents.

Ok. But doesn't every person who isn't functioning at a high level have something going on in their brain that makes them incapable of doing so?

Research scientist again - no.

This is what neuropsychological testing does: it susses out whether you are functioning in approximately the same way for all aspects of cognitive and processing skills. If you are, then nothing is wrong with you, and you are functioning at your potential. If there is a statistically significant discrepancy between one or other of your subscores, then that's a red flag for a learning disability that is holding you back. And for many such disabilities, there's not much that can be done that has been proven to work. For some, there is, and that's where school services and accommodations come in.

Learning disabilities have nothing to do with how smart you are (and then there's the tricky question of how you define intelligence). Learning disabilities and mental health disorders deserve to be treated just as seriously as physical illness and physical conditions, do you know why? Because they ARE physical conditions! Located in the brain, that's all. They are a reflection of brain trauma, or neuronal connectors gone awry, or neurotransmitter imbalance, etc... and it's only recently that we've recognized "mental issues" to be brain dysfunctions just like liver dysfunction or any other organ dysfunction.

DP. You describe your DC as just like yourself and your DH, who are research scientists/academics. During your childhood, you experienced adversity and learned how to adjust or overcome it. Your DC isn't learning that. Are his accommodations more valuable than learning experiences?

Do you really think a few accommodations erases all the adversity that comes with dyslexia? Wouldn't that be a Shangri la.

No. It doesn’t. Which I think is the pp’s point. It is a brain defect—not an alternative way of thinking. There is no magic fix that makes him not dyslexic. The deficits are more than simply learning to read. Accommodations should only make education accessible to him. Some dyslexics will still be average students with accommodations. Some will be above average. But they will always struggle. At some point life offers no more accommodations. The children, no matter below average, averafe, or above average, who grow up into successful adults with LDs are those who have learned how to overcome it in all facets of life.

I don't think it is a defect, I think it is a different way of processing information. I don't think anybody is trying to fix dyslexia. They realize that the model of teaching.... read, memorize, regurgitate... doesn't teach dyslexic kids nor does it show what they have learned.

At some point in life they will stop reading, memorizing and writing papers. They won't need accommodations because they job will be in an area that is not reading and writing or if it is they will have an editor.

They will become successful because they will find a job that plays to their strengths not their weaknesses.

I work in IT, I work with tons of dyslexic people. We work in the medical field and I constantly have to explain to the engineers that most doctors... read, memorize and follow instructions... they can't just "figure it out" so we need to document everything down to the nth degree.... and be kind that they ask the same frickin question 5 times.

Often it's insane how dumb the MDs are (when you have the brain of an engineer)... do you know how long it took some to learn how to double click.... then use the screen touch/swipe down. Does that make them less smart because they are good at reading, writing and memorizing... no ... it's just different.

Doctors are good at reading and memorizing. Lawyers too. But they also present on myriad cognitive profiles. Many of them have extremely high reasoning skills. Many also have extremely high processing speed. I think what the great majority of doctors have a profile that is globally gifted. Or st least globally above average. I don’t think it’s easy to have for example, high reasoning skills with low processing speed, and be a doctor. That does seem to work for other fields closely related to practicing medicine though.

Well, you would be wrong. I know a myriad of doctor that have multiple learning disabilities. I know a doctor who runs a major hospital's ER, if his assistant wasn't with him every moment he would lose his head.

If I used a different measuring stick to measure "gifted" in doctors... one that was not all about reading and memorizing... for example... when I try to explain the how differential equations are used to model the disposition of drugs in the body to find the therapeutic level for a patient most doctor's eyes roll to the back of their head and they say... can't you just create a chart for me to follow. In fact I can, and will, and do.

But really, is that hard to understand differential equations? I mean, they are... in your opinion... globally gifted.

No. They are just good at the thing they needed to be good at to perform in school. But really, there are some seriously dumb doctors out there.

If school was less, reading, writing, lecture, memorization, regurgitation... we might find there are some really smart people out there that we are missing.

or if school was just performing... we might think people good at reading, writing, memorizing are quite low performing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


OP here. I'm not saying that LD's do not exist at all and I would consider dyslexia to be an example of something that is more of a legitimate LD. But if you look over on the teen board, there is a thread along the lines of "would you leave your kid alone if they were making B's and C's. And the overwhelming consensus is no. Pretty much all the posters are saying that they do not consider C's acceptable. That's basically the issue. If a parent has a C student, they see that as a sign that something isn't right. They take the kid to a psychologist to get tested, and usually the kid will get some sort of diagnosis that could make them eligible for services. It may not be dyslexia, but very often it's adhd inattentive or a discrepancy in some area of intellect. My hunch is that if you dug deep enough, you can find some sort of label for almost any C student (especially the adhd label that could really apply to almost anyone). I'm also the poster with the nephew with the roommate from Exeter who said that about half the kids there supposedly have ADHD. The scary thing is that the parents probably aren't even trying to play the system. They see their kids having difficulty keeping up in a very competitive environment, and they legitimately think that the kid has some sort of problem.

Performing below their intellectual capability is a hallmark of LD and ADHD. You may be hearing that the only thing the parents care about is the grades, but there is more to the story. If a student is bright and does well in tests but gets barely passing grades, there is probably something going on. Or if the student is bright and has good knowledge of a subject but can't demonstrate that knowledge on a test, there is probably something going on. It would be negligent for a parent of that child not to dig further. Sadly, having the time and ability to dig further is somewhat correlated to SES.

I will always err on the side of trusting the parents/child. It's true that an average child with accommodations will see a slight improvement, but a very bright child with moderate to severe ADHD will have their potential wasted if they don't receive interventions and accommodations. It's not just about medications and extra time on tests, but helping teach them how to succeed and find their strengths. Schools know one way to teach and that way doesn't work for kids who aren't typical. Students who fall outside of typical need individualized approaches, whether that is speech to text software or explicit instruction and coaching on self-organization.

So what if a student performs poorly on both tests and classwork? Wouldn't you say that there is probably something going on? Would it be negligent for the parent not to dig further? Have we completely given up on the idea that some kids (even ones that are bright in other ways) might just suck in certain areas - or is that something that is now automatically regarded as being a disorder?

Not always. For example, when a child is bad at math and science we say, oh they are just bad at math and science.

But for some odd reason, when we see a child is slow at reading, can't spell or is a terrible writer we say they are not that smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really need to be engage with a learning disabled kid to understand how different they are from non learning disabled kids. I remembered trying to help my DD learn to read in comparison with DS. DS who isn't LD sounded out the words and got progressively better. If he didn't know the meaning of a word he would usually just keep going and either got the idea or didn't worry about it. DD could not sound out words and then remember what word she had previously read. DD jumped all over the page reading different words. DD would read all the words on the page separately and then put them together like a puzzle. If DD didn't know the meaning of a word she would stop and you had to give her a very precise definition. She would then question how that word had anything to do with what she just read. If there was a picture she would hyper focus on analyzing it. DD would overly focus on aspects that were not in the text. She would not just read See Spot Run. She would then ask why was Spot running? Was someone chasing Spot? Why is there no ground under the picture of Spot running? It looks like Spot is flying but that isn't what the text says. Why is the drawing wrong? It was exhausting.

One of the aspects of ADHD and other LDs is that some areas of the brain develop faster than their peers while other areas develop slower. This can lead to some extreme differences in cognitive skills until they get older and it balances out. Parents who have the time, inclination and education to do a wider range of academic activities with their kids notice these extreme differences quickly. They go fo testing because something is clearly off if DC can do things she should be able to do yet and really struggles in a strange way with things that should be easy for her.

Oh my gosh. Truer words were never spoken. My older daughter is dyslexic and when she was first learning to read, I did not yet know it at the time. It. Was. A. SLOG. However, I just thought that maybe that was how "normal" people learned how to read (I myself kind of picked up reading like breathing, it just was very natural to me) so I thought that I just had to be patient and realize that it wasn't so painless for the rest of the world. . .this was how regular people (people not like myself) learned to read. (Fast forward a few years: we got her tested and yep, she had dyslexia).

But NOW, I am working with her younger sister, and it is amazing to me how quickly she picks things up!! It just brings home to me how hard, in retrospect, it really was for DD!. With DD2, it's like a miracle: she sounds out a word on one page, turns the page, sees it again, and ACTUALLY REMEMBERS THAT SHE JUST READ IT! She does not have to start all over from scratch, sounding it out again! She holds it in her working memory! You could literally knock me over with a feather. She also can hold the story line in her head because she does not have to exert sooooooo much gosh-darn effort just to decode. So, this enables her reading and comprehension as well, and all the skills work together in synergy: decoding, comprehension, enjoyment of the story. It really is a beautiful thing.

Lest you think: well, DD2 must have gotten YOUR reading abilities, PP. Not so. Both she and DD1 were adopted, so neither of them got anything from me, biologically. I believe DD2 is "average" and, it is just astounding to ME personally when my only other experience as a parent was teaching her dyslexic older sis.

NP here with the exact same experience except I did give some genetics to my two. My second (non-dyslexic) is a piece of cake. Knows everything. Makes everything look easy and effortless. It's painful to see our older child compare. He's got a 2e profile, makes c's and I really hope we figure his brain out so he can thrive. It is really a very hard road to walk down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really need to be engage with a learning disabled kid to understand how different they are from non learning disabled kids. I remembered trying to help my DD learn to read in comparison with DS. DS who isn't LD sounded out the words and got progressively better. If he didn't know the meaning of a word he would usually just keep going and either got the idea or didn't worry about it. DD could not sound out words and then remember what word she had previously read. DD jumped all over the page reading different words. DD would read all the words on the page separately and then put them together like a puzzle. If DD didn't know the meaning of a word she would stop and you had to give her a very precise definition. She would then question how that word had anything to do with what she just read. If there was a picture she would hyper focus on analyzing it. DD would overly focus on aspects that were not in the text. She would not just read See Spot Run. She would then ask why was Spot running? Was someone chasing Spot? Why is there no ground under the picture of Spot running? It looks like Spot is flying but that isn't what the text says. Why is the drawing wrong? It was exhausting.

One of the aspects of ADHD and other LDs is that some areas of the brain develop faster than their peers while other areas develop slower. This can lead to some extreme differences in cognitive skills until they get older and it balances out. Parents who have the time, inclination and education to do a wider range of academic activities with their kids notice these extreme differences quickly. They go fo testing because something is clearly off if DC can do things she should be able to do yet and really struggles in a strange way with things that should be easy for her.

Oh my gosh. Truer words were never spoken. My older daughter is dyslexic and when she was first learning to read, I did not yet know it at the time. It. Was. A. SLOG. However, I just thought that maybe that was how "normal" people learned how to read (I myself kind of picked up reading like breathing, it just was very natural to me) so I thought that I just had to be patient and realize that it wasn't so painless for the rest of the world. . .this was how regular people (people not like myself) learned to read. (Fast forward a few years: we got her tested and yep, she had dyslexia).

But NOW, I am working with her younger sister, and it is amazing to me how quickly she picks things up!! It just brings home to me how hard, in retrospect, it really was for DD!. With DD2, it's like a miracle: she sounds out a word on one page, turns the page, sees it again, and ACTUALLY REMEMBERS THAT SHE JUST READ IT! She does not have to start all over from scratch, sounding it out again! She holds it in her working memory! You could literally knock me over with a feather. She also can hold the story line in her head because she does not have to exert sooooooo much gosh-darn effort just to decode. So, this enables her reading and comprehension as well, and all the skills work together in synergy: decoding, comprehension, enjoyment of the story. It really is a beautiful thing.

Lest you think: well, DD2 must have gotten YOUR reading abilities, PP. Not so. Both she and DD1 were adopted, so neither of them got anything from me, biologically. I believe DD2 is "average" and, it is just astounding to ME personally when my only other experience as a parent was teaching her dyslexic older sis.

NP here with the exact same experience except I did give some genetics to my two. My second (non-dyslexic) is a piece of cake. Knows everything. Makes everything look easy and effortless. It's painful to see our older child compare. He's got a 2e profile, makes c's and I really hope we figure his brain out so he can thrive. It is really a very hard road to walk down.

Same here. I've posted on this thread a few times. My oldest is the one with severe dyslexia. He has high functioning autism too but his presentation was with precocious expressive language. When he was 3 or 4yo he would corner an adult at the playground and talk their ear off. In Kindergarten he was correcting his teacher when she dumbed down science explanations. We've been very fortunate that he is so intellectually curious and has such advanced expressive language that it becomes obvious to the adults he interacts with at school that he's a really smart kid. We've had such strong advocacy for him because they see how it's hard for him to translate all of that into functioning well in a school setting. He's passing SOLs and getting good grades (that he worked his butt off for) but the whole package just doesn't fit the mold. Again, I'm so grateful he's had so many adults in his life who are clearly rooting for him. I can't imagine how devastating it would be for him if his teachers just passed him off as stupid.

In his case, his dyslexia undoubtedly came from his dad who is basically a poster child of an adult with undiagnosed dyslexia ... aka extremely rocky educational background but successful professional with a 6 figure income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many parents of students with learning disabilities have no idea how much this is being abused among the upper class. I worked at a private school where literally every child who did not meet the grade's targets was referred for evaluation. Parents who pay this much for school simply do not accept children who are not getting A's, and will employ whatever accommodations and medications are necessary until they do.

That must be the double-whammy for you -- resentment of rich people PLUS resentment of accommodations for disabilities.

I see you would like to make this about my feelings but I’d rather make it about the facts: do you believe any child not getting A’s must have a disability? It’s hard to believe until you have interacted with so many parents who believe this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many parents of students with learning disabilities have no idea how much this is being abused among the upper class. I worked at a private school where literally every child who did not meet the grade's targets was referred for evaluation. Parents who pay this much for school simply do not accept children who are not getting A's, and will employ whatever accommodations and medications are necessary until they do.

That must be the double-whammy for you -- resentment of rich people PLUS resentment of accommodations for disabilities.

I see you would like to make this about my feelings but I’d rather make it about the facts: do you believe any child not getting A’s must have a disability? It’s hard to believe until you have interacted with so many parents who believe this.

I was commenting on your values, not your feelings. We have an educational system that turns out thousands of functionally illiterate high school students every year and states choose to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every year in lawyers fees to avoid their federally mandated obligation to students with disabilities and all you are concerned about is rich parents spending their own money on evaluations because it might give their kid a slight edge. I don't really care about your problem. I think it is insignificant in relation to system wide failure to adequately teach children with learning disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many parents of students with learning disabilities have no idea how much this is being abused among the upper class. I worked at a private school where literally every child who did not meet the grade's targets was referred for evaluation. Parents who pay this much for school simply do not accept children who are not getting A's, and will employ whatever accommodations and medications are necessary until they do.

That must be the double-whammy for you -- resentment of rich people PLUS resentment of accommodations for disabilities.

I see you would like to make this about my feelings but I’d rather make it about the facts: do you believe any child not getting A’s must have a disability? It’s hard to believe until you have interacted with so many parents who believe this.

I was commenting on your values, not your feelings. We have an educational system that turns out thousands of functionally illiterate high school students every year and states choose to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every year in lawyers fees to avoid their federally mandated obligation to students with disabilities and all you are concerned about is rich parents spending their own money on evaluations because it might give their kid a slight edge. I don't really care about your problem. I think it is insignificant in relation to system wide failure to adequately teach children with learning disabilities.

I wouldn’t say it’s all I’m concerned about, but it’s relevant experience I have had that is tied to the topic of this thread. What you describe does sound like a systemwide failure, which will require a major investment in public education to fix. I’m afraid you’ve misread my frustrations with this. I’m not mad that kids might get “an edge.” I’m mad that they are giving learning disabilities a bad name by faking them. The more of them do this, in private or public schools, the less likely school systems are to help kids who really need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really need to be engage with a learning disabled kid to understand how different they are from non learning disabled kids. I remembered trying to help my DD learn to read in comparison with DS. DS who isn't LD sounded out the words and got progressively better. If he didn't know the meaning of a word he would usually just keep going and either got the idea or didn't worry about it. DD could not sound out words and then remember what word she had previously read. DD jumped all over the page reading different words. DD would read all the words on the page separately and then put them together like a puzzle. If DD didn't know the meaning of a word she would stop and you had to give her a very precise definition. She would then question how that word had anything to do with what she just read. If there was a picture she would hyper focus on analyzing it. DD would overly focus on aspects that were not in the text. She would not just read See Spot Run. She would then ask why was Spot running? Was someone chasing Spot? Why is there no ground under the picture of Spot running? It looks like Spot is flying but that isn't what the text says. Why is the drawing wrong? It was exhausting.

One of the aspects of ADHD and other LDs is that some areas of the brain develop faster than their peers while other areas develop slower. This can lead to some extreme differences in cognitive skills until they get older and it balances out. Parents who have the time, inclination and education to do a wider range of academic activities with their kids notice these extreme differences quickly. They go fo testing because something is clearly off if DC can do things she should be able to do yet and really struggles in a strange way with things that should be easy for her.

Oh my gosh. Truer words were never spoken. My older daughter is dyslexic and when she was first learning to read, I did not yet know it at the time. It. Was. A. SLOG. However, I just thought that maybe that was how "normal" people learned how to read (I myself kind of picked up reading like breathing, it just was very natural to me) so I thought that I just had to be patient and realize that it wasn't so painless for the rest of the world. . .this was how regular people (people not like myself) learned to read. (Fast forward a few years: we got her tested and yep, she had dyslexia).

But NOW, I am working with her younger sister, and it is amazing to me how quickly she picks things up!! It just brings home to me how hard, in retrospect, it really was for DD!. With DD2, it's like a miracle: she sounds out a word on one page, turns the page, sees it again, and ACTUALLY REMEMBERS THAT SHE JUST READ IT! She does not have to start all over from scratch, sounding it out again! She holds it in her working memory! You could literally knock me over with a feather. She also can hold the story line in her head because she does not have to exert sooooooo much gosh-darn effort just to decode. So, this enables her reading and comprehension as well, and all the skills work together in synergy: decoding, comprehension, enjoyment of the story. It really is a beautiful thing.

Lest you think: well, DD2 must have gotten YOUR reading abilities, PP. Not so. Both she and DD1 were adopted, so neither of them got anything from me, biologically. I believe DD2 is "average" and, it is just astounding to ME personally when my only other experience as a parent was teaching her dyslexic older sis.

NP here with the exact same experience except I did give some genetics to my two. My second (non-dyslexic) is a piece of cake. Knows everything. Makes everything look easy and effortless. It's painful to see our older child compare. He's got a 2e profile, makes c's and I really hope we figure his brain out so he can thrive. It is really a very hard road to walk down.

I am the PP above you. I know what you mean: it *is* hard when the younger one can pick up things so quickly and easily and the older one has to work, work, work at it. It is hard to watch. I really hope both our older kids will eventually thrive too. ((Hugs)) to you all. . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You really need to be engage with a learning disabled kid to understand how different they are from non learning disabled kids. I remembered trying to help my DD learn to read in comparison with DS. DS who isn't LD sounded out the words and got progressively better. If he didn't know the meaning of a word he would usually just keep going and either got the idea or didn't worry about it. DD could not sound out words and then remember what word she had previously read. DD jumped all over the page reading different words. DD would read all the words on the page separately and then put them together like a puzzle. If DD didn't know the meaning of a word she would stop and you had to give her a very precise definition. She would then question how that word had anything to do with what she just read. If there was a picture she would hyper focus on analyzing it. DD would overly focus on aspects that were not in the text. She would not just read See Spot Run. She would then ask why was Spot running? Was someone chasing Spot? Why is there no ground under the picture of Spot running? It looks like Spot is flying but that isn't what the text says. Why is the drawing wrong? It was exhausting.

One of the aspects of ADHD and other LDs is that some areas of the brain develop faster than their peers while other areas develop slower. This can lead to some extreme differences in cognitive skills until they get older and it balances out. Parents who have the time, inclination and education to do a wider range of academic activities with their kids notice these extreme differences quickly. They go fo testing because something is clearly off if DC can do things she should be able to do yet and really struggles in a strange way with things that should be easy for her.

Oh my gosh. Truer words were never spoken. My older daughter is dyslexic and when she was first learning to read, I did not yet know it at the time. It. Was. A. SLOG. However, I just thought that maybe that was how "normal" people learned how to read (I myself kind of picked up reading like breathing, it just was very natural to me) so I thought that I just had to be patient and realize that it wasn't so painless for the rest of the world. . .this was how regular people (people not like myself) learned to read. (Fast forward a few years: we got her tested and yep, she had dyslexia).

But NOW, I am working with her younger sister, and it is amazing to me how quickly she picks things up!! It just brings home to me how hard, in retrospect, it really was for DD!. With DD2, it's like a miracle: she sounds out a word on one page, turns the page, sees it again, and ACTUALLY REMEMBERS THAT SHE JUST READ IT! She does not have to start all over from scratch, sounding it out again! She holds it in her working memory! You could literally knock me over with a feather. She also can hold the story line in her head because she does not have to exert sooooooo much gosh-darn effort just to decode. So, this enables her reading and comprehension as well, and all the skills work together in synergy: decoding, comprehension, enjoyment of the story. It really is a beautiful thing.

Lest you think: well, DD2 must have gotten YOUR reading abilities, PP. Not so. Both she and DD1 were adopted, so neither of them got anything from me, biologically. I believe DD2 is "average" and, it is just astounding to ME personally when my only other experience as a parent was teaching her dyslexic older sis.

NP here with the exact same experience except I did give some genetics to my two. My second (non-dyslexic) is a piece of cake. Knows everything. Makes everything look easy and effortless. It's painful to see our older child compare. He's got a 2e profile, makes c's and I really hope we figure his brain out so he can thrive. It is really a very hard road to walk down.

Same here. I've posted on this thread a few times. My oldest is the one with severe dyslexia. He has high functioning autism too but his presentation was with precocious expressive language. When he was 3 or 4yo he would corner an adult at the playground and talk their ear off. In Kindergarten he was correcting his teacher when she dumbed down science explanations. We've been very fortunate that he is so intellectually curious and has such advanced expressive language that it becomes obvious to the adults he interacts with at school that he's a really smart kid. We've had such strong advocacy for him because they see how it's hard for him to translate all of that into functioning well in a school setting. He's passing SOLs and getting good grades (that he worked his butt off for) but the whole package just doesn't fit the mold. Again, I'm so grateful he's had so many adults in his life who are clearly rooting for him. I can't imagine how devastating it would be for him if his teachers just passed him off as stupid.

In his case, his dyslexia undoubtedly came from his dad who is basically a poster child of an adult with undiagnosed dyslexia ... aka extremely rocky educational background but successful professional with a 6 figure income.

PP back. That is awesome that your son has great expressive language and that you have found him such wonderful advocates. Yep, you hit the nail on the head: these kids just do NOT fit the mold. My daughter doesn't have wonderful expressive language (I'd say, average); she just doesn't seem to lean towards being a "verbal" person that much either way, but she is excellent in visual-spatial visualization, math, science, stem. I hope all our kids continue to do well!!

[Anonymous]

Autistic kids will save the world. Yes they will. They are God's chosen.

Remember this thread when it happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many parents of students with learning disabilities have no idea how much this is being abused among the upper class. I worked at a private school where literally every child who did not meet the grade's targets was referred for evaluation. Parents who pay this much for school simply do not accept children who are not getting A's, and will employ whatever accommodations and medications are necessary until they do.

That must be the double-whammy for you -- resentment of rich people PLUS resentment of accommodations for disabilities.

I see you would like to make this about my feelings but I’d rather make it about the facts: do you believe any child not getting A’s must have a disability? It’s hard to believe until you have interacted with so many parents who believe this.

I was commenting on your values, not your feelings. We have an educational system that turns out thousands of functionally illiterate high school students every year and states choose to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every year in lawyers fees to avoid their federally mandated obligation to students with disabilities and all you are concerned about is rich parents spending their own money on evaluations because it might give their kid a slight edge. I don't really care about your problem. I think it is insignificant in relation to system wide failure to adequately teach children with learning disabilities.

I wouldn’t say it’s all I’m concerned about, but it’s relevant experience I have had that is tied to the topic of this thread. What you describe does sound like a systemwide failure, which will require a major investment in public education to fix. I’m afraid you’ve misread my frustrations with this. I’m not mad that kids might get “an edge.” I’m mad that they are giving learning disabilities a bad name by faking them. The more of them do this, in private or public schools, the less likely school systems are to help kids who really need it.

Thank you. I apologize for misunderstanding. I do know there is abuse but there are a lot of people out there who genuinely believe ADHD doesn't exist (or it's just a lack of discipline) and that the problem with kids with LD is they just aren't trying hard enough. Bright kids needing help is a real thing. Some can scrape by, even get straight A's, but there is a hidden toll. One of the leading clinicians in ADHD research lists depression as leading criteria for diagnosis of ADHD in adulthood. In my experience the people who cry the loudest about overdiagnosis are the deniers who view ADHD as a moral failing.