Does Early Decision limit chances for merit aid

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1

What does this refer to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a conversation you need to have with the financial aid office of the ED school.

If you don’t qualify for need based aid (you’ve run the NPC calculator) and you need merit aid to afford the ED school, then DO NOT apply for ED.

Ya’ll are confusing merit (non-need based aid) with need based aid. Colleges award merit according to their own rules, and it has nothing to do with your financial picture.

We will probably call the school but I’m curious why you think it matters where the money comes from (FA/merit aid/other scholarships/family help/rotc). Bottom line is we need some assistance to pay. No guarantee we will get the money but it’s possible.

Because the schools categorize it differently.

Run the calculator and it will say what the school has determined your need is (most of us disagree with those figures btw). Colleges that guarantee to meet 100% of need, mean that they will provide that number to anyone they admit ED or RD.

If you are confident in your ability to pay the net price out of funds you have at the time of the application, then apply ED. It is unlikely you will get more from the college.

If you are not, for whatever reason (including waiting on a relative to die, applying for outside scholarships, whatever) you cannot apply ED. Period.

Or what? Of course you can.

You are right.... just have your kid apply ED to all schools since they can't make you attend and may not find out you did it. Who are all these naive folks that care about lying and breaking contracts!!!

Not only is it a bad example for the child, but the high school counselor isn't going to like this one bit. What the parents do reflects bad on the counselor and the school. ED school isn't going to smile so friendly on OP's high school ED applicants come next year. Finally, how cruel is it to dangle a school that the family cannot afford in front of a child? Every single public high school counselor and private will tell you this: BEFORE you start drawing up a list of schools or visiting and touring, be SURE that you can afford them. If you cannot, then do not tour. It's not fair to the child and it is not fair to your high school counselor to apply ED on a whim and then back out.

It would also be dumb to not apply to one of the best universities in the world - with a huge endowment - and to not visit at all because you’re not sure you can afford it. If your kid has a chance it’s worth a try.

You have no idea how the system works. First of all, the best universities in the world usually use SCEA, which is not the subject of this post, not ED. ED is not used in the Ivies unless something has changed very recently. ED locks the student in. EA doesn't. SCEA locks you into applying only to the Ivy and as many publics as you like but not privates. Second, if you can't afford $80K a year in after tax dollars for an Ivy, why would you apply? What if you have other obligations such as dying parents, mortgages or other children? Why take your child on a tour and show them something you cannot afford? Three, everyone who doesn't understand the system is getting confused between MERIT aid, which most Ivies and selective schools no longer give (except in the case of atheletes) because they don't have to - they can get the class they want with the 38,000 applications they have in front of them. Also, because they are doling out FINANCIAL aid money which requires the filing of the FAFSA or CSS and an estimation by an outside computer as to your family's EFC - expected family contribution. Most of us MC families are told that our EFCs are full pay. Ergo, we got nothing in merit aid or financial aid from the SLACs and Ivies with the exception of the minimum $5500. Both of our children went in-state, which was the right decision for us, especially since one is now applying for a Masters' and the second is talking law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No tthe point at all and your over-statement makes you hard to take seriously. Schools offer ED and with a potential out if you cannot afford to attend once you are admitted. Many factors ultimately play into that calculus and a hoped for merit award may be one of them (as could be losing a job or not getting an expected bonus). If you can afford to go once admitted, great. If you can't, that's unfortunate but they DC goes to regular decision somewhere else they can afford. But that is simply not breaking a contract. Multiple ED applications, on the other hand, are not permitted.


She’s back! The one poster hoping merit aid will save her butt in an ED contract. Good luck with that strategy.



Actually there are more than one of us. If you read her post accurately you'll see that merit aid is only one factor she is talking about. For those of us without buckets of money, we're trying to put together money from a variety of sources including need based FA, possibly merit aid, maybe help from family (not hoping someone dies as another person so snarkily wrote) etc.

Her point about a job and/or bonus is that sometimes people experience unexpected financial set backs. Bottom line: this is why there is a clause that allows people to be released from ED contracts.

There is one poster who seems extremely intent on telling people not to apply ED unless they've got the money in hand. It sounds like she is discouraging anyone who is applying for need based financial aid from applying ED. Because anyone who is applying for need based FA is not guarantee the money and therefore may have to be released from the contract (which is of course the point of the release clause).

DP: No, there's more than one of us. Withdrawing from the ED isn't quite as easy as you are promoting. Yes, they can't force you to go to the school. But by applying ED you are saying that with the current info from the NPC and your knowledge of your financial situation you can afford the school and plan to attend. IF something unexpected comes up, you are not tied to it--but wishing for merit aid isn't part of that. So, 1, you are entering into a binding contract and not being honest about that if it's the case. But to the more practical point, once your child has accepted ED, all other applications are to be withdrawn and all other colleges and your HS counselor are notified of the binding agreement. If you don't accept the ED offer due to finances, it can really impact your other applications--gumming up the process and creating a ding on your kids' record. So I would not encourage anyone to do this blithely. There really isn't that much advantage to ED acceptances (most indicate a 1-2% chance advantage at best--people don't know how to interpret admission rates properly) to make it worth the risk.

[Anonymous]

My DC is applying to small, private LACs. Our family thinks we can afford about $35,000 per year.

The FAFSA NPC says we can afford to pay $40,000 per year. We also did the EFCs on more than 20 college / university websites.

For fun we did Harvard - it said our EFC would be $24,000 (doesn't matter; my DC wont' get in and isn't applying).

Most of the LACs he is applying to are estimating our financial aid package to results in a net price between $30-50,000. DC's dream school estimates our net price will be $45,000.

DC wanted to apply ED to the dream school, but did not bc we do not want to be on the hook for $45k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tthe point at all and your over-statement makes you hard to take seriously. Schools offer ED and with a potential out if you cannot afford to attend once you are admitted. Many factors ultimately play into that calculus and a hoped for merit award may be one of them (as could be losing a job or not getting an expected bonus). If you can afford to go once admitted, great. If you can't, that's unfortunate but they DC goes to regular decision somewhere else they can afford. But that is simply not breaking a contract. Multiple ED applications, on the other hand, are not permitted.


She’s back! The one poster hoping merit aid will save her butt in an ED contract. Good luck with that strategy.



Actually there are more than one of us. If you read her post accurately you'll see that merit aid is only one factor she is talking about. For those of us without buckets of money, we're trying to put together money from a variety of sources including need based FA, possibly merit aid, maybe help from family (not hoping someone dies as another person so snarkily wrote) etc.

Her point about a job and/or bonus is that sometimes people experience unexpected financial set backs. Bottom line: this is why there is a clause that allows people to be released from ED contracts.

There is one poster who seems extremely intent on telling people not to apply ED unless they've got the money in hand. It sounds like she is discouraging anyone who is applying for need based financial aid from applying ED. Because anyone who is applying for need based FA is not guarantee the money and therefore may have to be released from the contract (which is of course the point of the release clause).

DP: No, there's more than one of us. Withdrawing from the ED isn't quite as easy as you are promoting. Yes, they can't force you to go to the school. But by applying ED you are saying that with the current info from the NPC and your knowledge of your financial situation you can afford the school and plan to attend. IF something unexpected comes up, you are not tied to it--but wishing for merit aid isn't part of that. So, 1, you are entering into a binding contract and not being honest about that if it's the case. But to the more practical point, once your child has accepted ED, all other applications are to be withdrawn and all other colleges and your HS counselor are notified of the binding agreement. If you don't accept the ED offer due to finances, it can really impact your other applications--gumming up the process and creating a ding on your kids' record. So I would not encourage anyone to do this blithely. There really isn't that much advantage to ED acceptances (most indicate a 1-2% chance advantage at best--people don't know how to interpret admission rates properly) to make it worth the risk.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tthe point at all and your over-statement makes you hard to take seriously. Schools offer ED and with a potential out if you cannot afford to attend once you are admitted. Many factors ultimately play into that calculus and a hoped for merit award may be one of them (as could be losing a job or not getting an expected bonus). If you can afford to go once admitted, great. If you can't, that's unfortunate but they DC goes to regular decision somewhere else they can afford. But that is simply not breaking a contract. Multiple ED applications, on the other hand, are not permitted.


She’s back! The one poster hoping merit aid will save her butt in an ED contract. Good luck with that strategy.



Actually there are more than one of us. If you read her post accurately you'll see that merit aid is only one factor she is talking about. For those of us without buckets of money, we're trying to put together money from a variety of sources including need based FA, possibly merit aid, maybe help from family (not hoping someone dies as another person so snarkily wrote) etc.

Her point about a job and/or bonus is that sometimes people experience unexpected financial set backs. Bottom line: this is why there is a clause that allows people to be released from ED contracts.

There is one poster who seems extremely intent on telling people not to apply ED unless they've got the money in hand. It sounds like she is discouraging anyone who is applying for need based financial aid from applying ED. Because anyone who is applying for need based FA is not guarantee the money and therefore may have to be released from the contract (which is of course the point of the release clause).

DP: No, there's more than one of us. Withdrawing from the ED isn't quite as easy as you are promoting. Yes, they can't force you to go to the school. But by applying ED you are saying that with the current info from the NPC and your knowledge of your financial situation you can afford the school and plan to attend. IF something unexpected comes up, you are not tied to it--but wishing for merit aid isn't part of that. So, 1, you are entering into a binding contract and not being honest about that if it's the case. But to the more practical point, once your child has accepted ED, all other applications are to be withdrawn and all other colleges and your HS counselor are notified of the binding agreement. If you don't accept the ED offer due to finances, it can really impact your other applications--gumming up the process and creating a ding on your kids' record. So I would not encourage anyone to do this blithely. There really isn't that much advantage to ED acceptances (most indicate a 1-2% chance advantage at best--people don't know how to interpret admission rates properly) to make it worth the risk.

+100

+100 Personally if I had made the mistake of selecting ED without fully understanding the contract and couldn't actually afford the school without merit aid, I would right now before final admission decisions are made talk to my kid's HS counselor about whether or not they should withdraw the ED application and switch it to RD. It's a tough choice, but that's a high risk game with your kid's college application process.

[Anonymous]

There really isn't that much advantage to ED acceptances (most indicate a 1-2% chance advantage at best--people don't know how to interpret admission rates properly) to make it worth the risk.


Unfortunately there is a big advantage to applying ED. Some private high schools have graduating classes where the majority of the class applies ED somewhere. Many colleges get approx 50% of their freshman class from ED. For example, one school that has a 28% admit rate for RD, has a 40% admit rate for ED. Another has a 25% admit ED and about a 10% for ED. There have been many articles written about how ED is a tool for the wealthy and how unfair it is to the non wealthy. A few years ago several schools eliminated it for that very reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There really isn't that much advantage to ED acceptances (most indicate a 1-2% chance advantage at best--people don't know how to interpret admission rates properly) to make it worth the risk.


Unfortunately there is a big advantage to applying ED. Some private high schools have graduating classes where the majority of the class applies ED somewhere. Many colleges get approx 50% of their freshman class from ED. For example, one school that has a 28% admit rate for RD, has a 40% admit rate for ED. Another has a 25% admit ED and about a 10% for ED. There have been many articles written about how ED is a tool for the wealthy and how unfair it is to the non wealthy. A few years ago several schools eliminated it for that very reason.

No, this is a common misconception. Even if a school gets 50% of their class from ED, this doesn't make as much an advantage as you think. You can't compare the numbers because for ED they know everyone will come (they promised in the contract). For RD, they accept far more than they know will attend (yield rates are often around 20%). Students who choose ED for a school are also likely to be closer to the target profile (school counselors heavily advise which are ED fits--and kids have the perception they shouldn't waste their ED shot on a reach school). The real comparison is to look at the admitted profiles (sometimes you need to do this after weeding out the ED recruited athletes)--how similar are GPAs/SAT scores? That tells you the advantage. And in most cases there is very little difference. Colleges love ED because it helps them stabilize enrollment. Private high schools love ED because it erases negative competition between classmates--they can really direct their students to different ED schools so they are not in competition with one another as much. Parents and kids are the real losers with ED because they are tricked into thinking it's going to give them a major advantage and they lose the ability to compare packages. Yes, it does favor the wealthy because it does offer slightly higher admission rates -- but only a 1 - 2% advantage according to best estimates. And the advantage is waning the more students who choose to apply ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There really isn't that much advantage to ED acceptances (most indicate a 1-2% chance advantage at best--people don't know how to interpret admission rates properly) to make it worth the risk.


Unfortunately there is a big advantage to applying ED. Some private high schools have graduating classes where the majority of the class applies ED somewhere. Many colleges get approx 50% of their freshman class from ED. For example, one school that has a 28% admit rate for RD, has a 40% admit rate for ED. Another has a 25% admit ED and about a 10% for ED. There have been many articles written about how ED is a tool for the wealthy and how unfair it is to the non wealthy. A few years ago several schools eliminated it for that very reason.

No, this is a common misconception. Even if a school gets 50% of their class from ED, this doesn't make as much an advantage as you think. You can't compare the numbers because for ED they know everyone will come (they promised in the contract). For RD, they accept far more than they know will attend (yield rates are often around 20%). Students who choose ED for a school are also likely to be closer to the target profile (school counselors heavily advise which are ED fits--and kids have the perception they shouldn't waste their ED shot on a reach school). The real comparison is to look at the admitted profiles (sometimes you need to do this after weeding out the ED recruited athletes)--how similar are GPAs/SAT scores? That tells you the advantage. And in most cases there is very little difference. Colleges love ED because it helps them stabilize enrollment. Private high schools love ED because it erases negative competition between classmates--they can really direct their students to different ED schools so they are not in competition with one another as much. Parents and kids are the real losers with ED because they are tricked into thinking it's going to give them a major advantage and they lose the ability to compare packages. Yes, it does favor the wealthy because it does offer slightly higher admission rates -- but only a 1 - 2% advantage according to best estimates. And the advantage is waning the more students who choose to apply ED.

I don't understand how you're getting 1-2% advantage when it's a published fact that a school has a 28% RD and 40% ED admit rate or at U Penn there is a huge gap, something like 9% versus 23%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There really isn't that much advantage to ED acceptances (most indicate a 1-2% chance advantage at best--people don't know how to interpret admission rates properly) to make it worth the risk.


Unfortunately there is a big advantage to applying ED. Some private high schools have graduating classes where the majority of the class applies ED somewhere. Many colleges get approx 50% of their freshman class from ED. For example, one school that has a 28% admit rate for RD, has a 40% admit rate for ED. Another has a 25% admit ED and about a 10% for ED. There have been many articles written about how ED is a tool for the wealthy and how unfair it is to the non wealthy. A few years ago several schools eliminated it for that very reason.

No, this is a common misconception. Even if a school gets 50% of their class from ED, this doesn't make as much an advantage as you think. You can't compare the numbers because for ED they know everyone will come (they promised in the contract). For RD, they accept far more than they know will attend (yield rates are often around 20%). Students who choose ED for a school are also likely to be closer to the target profile (school counselors heavily advise which are ED fits--and kids have the perception they shouldn't waste their ED shot on a reach school). The real comparison is to look at the admitted profiles (sometimes you need to do this after weeding out the ED recruited athletes)--how similar are GPAs/SAT scores? That tells you the advantage. And in most cases there is very little difference. Colleges love ED because it helps them stabilize enrollment. Private high schools love ED because it erases negative competition between classmates--they can really direct their students to different ED schools so they are not in competition with one another as much. Parents and kids are the real losers with ED because they are tricked into thinking it's going to give them a major advantage and they lose the ability to compare packages. Yes, it does favor the wealthy because it does offer slightly higher admission rates -- but only a 1 - 2% advantage according to best estimates. And the advantage is waning the more students who choose to apply ED.

I don't understand how you're getting 1-2% advantage when it's a published fact that a school has a 28% RD and 40% ED admit rate or at U Penn there is a huge gap, something like 9% versus 23%.

Compare the profiles of students who were accepted. More students with more varied profiles apply RD than the pool of ED candidates. When you compare the "stats" of admitted students during ED vs. RD there's little difference (and if you take out all the recruited athletes who did ED, sometimes the profile of ED admits is higher than the stats of RD admits). You can't compare percentage rates when they are drawing from different sized and composed pools of applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No tthe point at all and your over-statement makes you hard to take seriously. Schools offer ED and with a potential out if you cannot afford to attend once you are admitted. Many factors ultimately play into that calculus and a hoped for merit award may be one of them (as could be losing a job or not getting an expected bonus). If you can afford to go once admitted, great. If you can't, that's unfortunate but they DC goes to regular decision somewhere else they can afford. But that is simply not breaking a contract. Multiple ED applications, on the other hand, are not permitted.


She’s back! The one poster hoping merit aid will save her butt in an ED contract. Good luck with that strategy.



Actually there are more than one of us. If you read her post accurately you'll see that merit aid is only one factor she is talking about. For those of us without buckets of money, we're trying to put together money from a variety of sources including need based FA, possibly merit aid, maybe help from family (not hoping someone dies as another person so snarkily wrote) etc.

Her point about a job and/or bonus is that sometimes people experience unexpected financial set backs. Bottom line: this is why there is a clause that allows people to be released from ED contracts.

There is one poster who seems extremely intent on telling people not to apply ED unless they've got the money in hand. It sounds like she is discouraging anyone who is applying for need based financial aid from applying ED. Because anyone who is applying for need based FA is not guarantee the money and therefore may have to be released from the contract (which is of course the point of the release clause).

[b]DP: No, there's more than one of us. Withdrawing from the ED isn't quite as easy as you are promoting. Yes, they can't force you to go to the school. But by applying ED you are saying that with the current info from the NPC and your knowledge of your financial situation you can afford the school and plan to attend. IF something unexpected comes up, you are not tied to it--but wishing for merit aid isn't part of that. So, 1, you are entering into a binding contract and not being honest about that if it's the case. But to the more practical point, once your child has accepted ED, all other applications are to be withdrawn and all other colleges and your HS counselor are notified of the binding agreement. If you don't accept the ED offer due to finances, it can really impact your other applications--gumming up the process and creating a ding on your kids' record. So I would not encourage anyone to do this blithely. There really isn't that much advantage to ED acceptances (most indicate a 1-2% chance advantage at best--people don't know how to interpret admission rates properly) to make it worth the risk.

+100

+100 Personally if I had made the mistake of selecting ED without fully understanding the contract and couldn't actually afford the school without merit aid, I would right now before final admission decisions are made talk to my kid's HS counselor about whether or not they should withdraw the ED application and switch it to RD. It's a tough choice, but that's a high risk game with your kid's college application process.

[/b]


There are definitely more than one of us and the PPs above are correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a conversation you need to have with the financial aid office of the ED school.

If you don’t qualify for need based aid (you’ve run the NPC calculator) and you need merit aid to afford the ED school, then DO NOT apply for ED.

Ya’ll are confusing merit (non-need based aid) with need based aid. Colleges award merit according to their own rules, and it has nothing to do with your financial picture.

We will probably call the school but I’m curious why you think it matters where the money comes from (FA/merit aid/other scholarships/family help/rotc). Bottom line is we need some assistance to pay. No guarantee we will get the money but it’s possible.

Because the schools categorize it differently.

Run the calculator and it will say what the school has determined your need is (most of us disagree with those figures btw). Colleges that guarantee to meet 100% of need, mean that they will provide that number to anyone they admit ED or RD.

If you are confident in your ability to pay the net price out of funds you have at the time of the application, then apply ED. It is unlikely you will get more from the college.

If you are not, for whatever reason (including waiting on a relative to die, applying for outside scholarships, whatever) you cannot apply ED. Period.

Or what? Of course you can.

You are right.... just have your kid apply ED to all schools since they can't make you attend and may not find out you did it. Who are all these naive folks that care about lying and breaking contracts!!!

Not only is it a bad example for the child, but the high school counselor isn't going to like this one bit. What the parents do reflects bad on the counselor and the school. ED school isn't going to smile so friendly on OP's high school ED applicants come next year. Finally, how cruel is it to dangle a school that the family cannot afford in front of a child? Every single public high school counselor and private will tell you this: BEFORE you start drawing up a list of schools or visiting and touring, be SURE that you can afford them. If you cannot, then do not tour. It's not fair to the child and it is not fair to your high school counselor to apply ED on a whim and then back out.

It would also be dumb to not apply to one of the best universities in the world - with a huge endowment - and to not visit at all because you’re not sure you can afford it. If your kid has a chance it’s worth a try.

You have no idea how the system works. First of all, the best universities in the world usually use SCEA, which is not the subject of this post, not ED. ED is not used in the Ivies unless something has changed very recently. ED locks the student in. EA doesn't. SCEA locks you into applying only to the Ivy and as many publics as you like but not privates. Second, if you can't afford $80K a year in after tax dollars for an Ivy, why would you apply? What if you have other obligations such as dying parents, mortgages or other children? Why take your child on a tour and show them something you cannot afford? Three, everyone who doesn't understand the system is getting confused between MERIT aid, which most Ivies and selective schools no longer give (except in the case of atheletes) because they don't have to - they can get the class they want with the 38,000 applications they have in front of them. Also, because they are doling out FINANCIAL aid money which requires the filing of the FAFSA or CSS and an estimation by an outside computer as to your family's EFC - expected family contribution. Most of us MC families are told that our EFCs are full pay. Ergo, we got nothing in merit aid or financial aid from the SLACs and Ivies with the exception of the minimum $5500. Both of our children went in-state, which was the right decision for us, especially since one is now applying for a Masters' and the second is talking law school.

You keep writing and writing and writing jibberish to justify the fact that you limited your kids’ college choices so that you can fund your manipulative extended family. Are your kids angry at you or are you afraid that they are angry at you? Sounds like it.

My kid got into an ivy ED- picked out of the 38k kids- and did receive aid. Another friends kid got into Princeton ED and also received a good chunk of aid , despite being middle class. But yes, neither of us have any idea what we are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There really isn't that much advantage to ED acceptances (most indicate a 1-2% chance advantage at best--people don't know how to interpret admission rates properly) to make it worth the risk.


Unfortunately there is a big advantage to applying ED. Some private high schools have graduating classes where the majority of the class applies ED somewhere. Many colleges get approx 50% of their freshman class from ED. For example, one school that has a 28% admit rate for RD, has a 40% admit rate for ED. Another has a 25% admit ED and about a 10% for ED. There have been many articles written about how ED is a tool for the wealthy and how unfair it is to the non wealthy. A few years ago several schools eliminated it for that very reason.

Our DD went to a private school that had a lot of kids apply ED. I was amazed at the schools that the girls were admitted to. There seemed to be certain schools that were ‘feeder schools’ that accepted multiple girls each year. These are very good schools with low admittance rates and many girls are admitted. Then there were other schools that the girls wanted to go to that seemed to be ‘rationed’. It’s like they only expected to possibly get 1 girl in each of these schools so they seemed to subtly steer these girls to different schools and then highly recommended them and supported their application at that one school if that makes sense. If they had 5 girls wanting to go to school X but only thought they could get one in, they seemed to support one girl at school X and encouraged the other girls to choose another school. Sometimes they had to choose another school when they were rejected ED.

Also - ED happens very quickly in November. It’s possible that your child hasn’t applied to other schools before they receive their ED decision. My DD had no other apps in to cancel.

And as for ED being a rich people thing, if that’s true and there are many full pay ED kids that should mean that their is aid left for your not rich kid, which is often the case. I wouldn’t apply ED to a school that is known to be stingy with aid, but there are some that are not.