Does Early Decision limit chances for merit aid

[Anonymous]

It is not quite true that you have to withdraw your applications once you get in ED. You have to withdraw after you get in ED and you get your financial aid package.

No one seems to say that if you get in ED, you won't get merit aid and the schools by and large deny it. It would be one thing is a school said - look, we don't give merit aid for ED candidates. But they don't, to my knowledge. So taking the chance on a merit award certainly does not seem irrational, particularly where a student genuinely (1) has a first choice and (2) has some chance of merit aid based on grades/test scores. If the merit aid does not come through and the student can't afford it, then that's the reason the escape clause exists. The student doesn't get to go, has to apply to other schools, and hope for the best, And the school is not really hurt in any significant sense, as these cases are going to be comparatively rare,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You keep writing and writing and writing jibberish to justify the fact that you limited your kids’ college choices so that you can fund your manipulative extended family. Are your kids angry at you or are you afraid that they are angry at you? Sounds like it.

My kid got into an[b] ivy ED- picked out of the 38k kids- and did receive aid. Another friends kid got into Princeton ED and also received a good chunk of aid , despite being middle class. But yes, neither of us have any idea what we are doing.

[/b]

I'm glad it worked for you. And the aid you're talking about then is financial aid which is not limited in ED if the net price calculator estimated that you qualified and the college is a college that claims to meet full need--as all the Ivy league schools tend to do. But the OP asked about merit aid and extended the concept of the financial release clause in ways that it doesn't apply. I'm not worried for my kid--we are happy with his chosen application strategies-- but I think it's important for families to fully understand the risks of ED--there's a lot of misconceptions out there.

No Ivy has ED so either you are lying. a poseur or just don't understand what we are trying to tell you. And the only financial aid you will bet at the ivies is if you have a HHI of less than @ $70-85.

We’re talking about merit aid, which the Ivies don’t give out. The fact that you don’t know the difference is concerning.

I do know this difference. I'm a college counselor. I'm also the one saying that Ivies don't give out merit aid, unless athletes. This thread is about MERIT AID. Look at the title. Anyone who spouts off that her kid got into an ivy ED and got "a lot of aid" does not seem to understand the difference between merit and financial aid which someone who had gone through the process would know. This thread this about MERIT AID and ED. Some of us are truly trying to help parents who might not understand the difference even between EA and ED and SCEA that you don't want to apply to an ED school if you haven't done the calculator and aren't sure the family can afford it. You don't want to break that contract. And yes you can apply to other schools when you apply ED but you must withdraw (and your school counselor will tell you this) should you get into the ED school. And if you apply SCEA you can concurrently apply to public schools but don't have to withdraw. And so on. I just don't want some parent dangling an ED school in front of a kid and then later have to say "Oh, we can't afford $70K a year because we thought the school was going to give us more money" and the child is crushed and yes the schools DO talk about who breaks ED contracts as well as the college counselors. PLEASE talk to the school first before applying ED. They will lay it all out for you and will tell you if there is any concern in your own mind about affordabilty not to do it because the last thing they or your own high school counselor wants is an ED pick and then the parents have to bail out. Then the process has to start all over again for RD and that's not good for your child, the family and the high school

As a college counselor you should know that just “doing the calculator” doesn’t mean that you’ll get the aid you think you will/might. That calculator is a rough estimator. So you might have to break the contract even if you do the calculator. My child was actually told by a college not to apply ED if we needed FA. Which frankly I think is pretty discriminatory. The school is blatantly saying ED is only for the super rich.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a conversation you need to have with the financial aid office of the ED school.

If you don’t qualify for need based aid (you’ve run the NPC calculator) and you need merit aid to afford the ED school, then DO NOT apply for ED.

Ya’ll are confusing merit (non-need based aid) with need based aid. Colleges award merit according to their own rules, and it has nothing to do with your financial picture.

We will probably call the school but I’m curious why you think it matters where the money comes from (FA/merit aid/other scholarships/family help/rotc). Bottom line is we need some assistance to pay. No guarantee we will get the money but it’s possible.

Because the schools categorize it differently.

Run the calculator and it will say what the school has determined your need is (most of us disagree with those figures btw). Colleges that guarantee to meet 100% of need, mean that they will provide that number to anyone they admit ED or RD.

If you are confident in your ability to pay the net price out of funds you have at the time of the application, then apply ED. It is unlikely you will get more from the college.

If you are not, for whatever reason (including waiting on a relative to die, applying for outside scholarships, whatever) you cannot apply ED. Period.

Or what? Of course you can.

You are right.... just have your kid apply ED to all schools since they can't make you attend and may not find out you did it. Who are all these naive folks that care about lying and breaking contracts!!!

Not only is it a bad example for the child, but the high school counselor isn't going to like this one bit. What the parents do reflects bad on the counselor and the school. ED school isn't going to smile so friendly on OP's high school ED applicants come next year. Finally, how cruel is it to dangle a school that the family cannot afford in front of a child? Every single public high school counselor and private will tell you this: BEFORE you start drawing up a list of schools or visiting and touring, be SURE that you can afford them. If you cannot, then do not tour. It's not fair to the child and it is not fair to your high school counselor to apply ED on a whim and then back out.

It would also be dumb to not apply to one of the best universities in the world - with a huge endowment - and to not visit at all because you’re not sure you can afford it. If your kid has a chance it’s worth a try.

You have no idea how the system works. First of all, the best universities in the world usually use SCEA, which is not the subject of this post, not ED. ED is not used in the Ivies unless something has changed very recently. ED locks the student in. EA doesn't. SCEA locks you into applying only to the Ivy and as many publics as you like but not privates. Second, if you can't afford $80K a year in after tax dollars for an Ivy, why would you apply? What if you have other obligations such as dying parents, mortgages or other children? Why take your child on a tour and show them something you cannot afford? Three, everyone who doesn't understand the system is getting confused between MERIT aid, which most Ivies and selective schools no longer give (except in the case of atheletes) because they don't have to - they can get the class they want with the 38,000 applications they have in front of them. Also, because they are doling out FINANCIAL aid money which requires the filing of the FAFSA or CSS and an estimation by an outside computer as to your family's EFC - expected family contribution. Most of us MC families are told that our EFCs are full pay. Ergo, we got nothing in merit aid or financial aid from the SLACs and Ivies with the exception of the minimum $5500. Both of our children went in-state, which was the right decision for us, especially since one is now applying for a Masters' and the second is talking law school.

You keep writing and writing and writing jibberish to justify the fact that you limited your kids’ college choices so that you can fund your manipulative extended family. Are your kids angry at you or are you afraid that they are angry at you? Sounds like it.

My kid got into an ivy ED- picked out of the 38k kids- and did receive aid. Another friends kid got into Princeton ED and also received a good chunk of aid , despite being middle class. But yes, neither of us have any idea what we are doing.

Ivies don’t give merit aid, you are talking about financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not quite true that you have to withdraw your applications once you get in ED. You have to withdraw after you get in ED and you get your financial aid package.

No one seems to say that if you get in ED, you won't get merit aid and the schools by and large deny it. It would be one thing is a school said - look, we don't give merit aid for ED candidates. But they don't, to my knowledge. So taking the chance on a merit award certainly does not seem irrational, particularly where a student genuinely (1) has a first choice and (2) has some chance of merit aid based on grades/test scores. If the merit aid does not come through and the student can't afford it, then that's the reason the escape clause exists. The student doesn't get to go, has to apply to other schools, and hope for the best, And the school is not really hurt in any significant sense, as these cases are going to be comparatively rare,

Not getting hoped for merit aid does not constitute a reasonable decline of ED. They specifically advise you: if you can't afford the number the NPC gives you, don't apply ED. You would still experience the consequences of breaking the ED contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not quite true that you have to withdraw your applications once you get in ED. You have to withdraw after you get in ED and you get your financial aid package.

No one seems to say that if you get in ED, you won't get merit aid and the schools by and large deny it. It would be one thing is a school said - look, we don't give merit aid for ED candidates. But they don't, to my knowledge. So taking the chance on a merit award certainly does not seem irrational, particularly where a student genuinely (1) has a first choice and (2) has some chance of merit aid based on grades/test scores. If the merit aid does not come through and the student can't afford it, then that's the reason the escape clause exists. The student doesn't get to go, has to apply to other schools, and hope for the best, And the school is not really hurt in any significant sense, as these cases are going to be comparatively rare,

Not getting hoped for merit aid does not constitute a reasonable decline of ED. They specifically advise you: if you can't afford the number the NPC gives you, don't apply ED. You would still experience the consequences of breaking the ED contract.

Great summary of what lots of posters have said in different ways.
Financial aid is based on your family's financial situation. Most colleges have a NPC (net price calculator) on their website which you can use to estimate how much financial aid you are likely to get. You are expected to do this and make your decision on whether to apply ED based on this information.
Merit aid is based on whether the college wants to offer your child money because they think your kid is awesome. Top 20 colleges do not typically offer merit aid.

If you apply ED and cannot afford to send your child you will have a tough time getting out of that ED contract if the financial aid they offer is consistent with your NPC calculations UNLESS something significant has changed since you applied (you lost your job for example).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not quite true that you have to withdraw your applications once you get in ED. You have to withdraw after you get in ED and you get your financial aid package.

No one seems to say that if you get in ED, you won't get merit aid and the schools by and large deny it. It would be one thing is a school said - look, we don't give merit aid for ED candidates. But they don't, to my knowledge. So taking the chance on a merit award certainly does not seem irrational, particularly where a student genuinely (1) has a first choice and (2) has some chance of merit aid based on grades/test scores. If the merit aid does not come through and the student can't afford it, then that's the reason the escape clause exists. The student doesn't get to go, has to apply to other schools, and hope for the best, And the school is not really hurt in any significant sense, as these cases are going to be comparatively rare,

It is common knowledge that Ivies don't give merit aid. In addition, all schools are required to report in their Common Data Set -- which is available on their website -- the exact number of freshmen and the total number of undergraduates receiving non-need based/non athletic merit aid. They also report the average size of the merit aid awarded.

So it is in fact very clear which schools do and don't give merit aid and that information is available to you before you apply ED. And if you applied ED needing to get merit aid without checking the CDS to confirm it is available …. then you did your child a disservice.

[Anonymous]

Schools do not have to publish their common data sets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not quite true that you have to withdraw your applications once you get in ED. You have to withdraw after you get in ED and you get your financial aid package.

No one seems to say that if you get in ED, you won't get merit aid and the schools by and large deny it. It would be one thing is a school said - look, we don't give merit aid for ED candidates. But they don't, to my knowledge. So taking the chance on a merit award certainly does not seem irrational, particularly where a student genuinely (1) has a first choice and (2) has some chance of merit aid based on grades/test scores. If the merit aid does not come through and the student can't afford it, then that's the reason the escape clause exists. The student doesn't get to go, has to apply to other schools, and hope for the best, And the school is not really hurt in any significant sense, as these cases are going to be comparatively rare,

Not getting hoped for merit aid does not constitute a reasonable decline of ED. They specifically advise you: if you can't afford the number the NPC gives you, don't apply ED. You would still experience the consequences of breaking the ED contract.

While some school may make such a statement, many schools do not. Typical contractual language is that you are realeased if you do not received "sufficient finanical aid to make attendance possible."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not quite true that you have to withdraw your applications once you get in ED. You have to withdraw after you get in ED and you get your financial aid package.

No one seems to say that if you get in ED, you won't get merit aid and the schools by and large deny it. It would be one thing is a school said - look, we don't give merit aid for ED candidates. But they don't, to my knowledge. So taking the chance on a merit award certainly does not seem irrational, particularly where a student genuinely (1) has a first choice and (2) has some chance of merit aid based on grades/test scores. If the merit aid does not come through and the student can't afford it, then that's the reason the escape clause exists. The student doesn't get to go, has to apply to other schools, and hope for the best, And the school is not really hurt in any significant sense, as these cases are going to be comparatively rare,

Not getting hoped for merit aid does not constitute a reasonable decline of ED. They specifically advise you: if you can't afford the number the NPC gives you, don't apply ED. You would still experience the consequences of breaking the ED contract.

While some school may make such a statement, many schools do not. Typical contractual language is that you are realeased if you do not received "sufficient finanical aid to make attendance possible."

Yes, that's often the contractual language--but you're expected to do due diligence on whether the school is likely to meet what you deem your financial ability without merit aid--and the clause is more about financial changes in your situation. But, you're right, no one's going to arrest you if you break your contract. But your counselor and other ED schools will know about it. And if it's a school that's known to fund to full demonstrated need, that's a negative mark on your application to the other schools. Also if you're hoping for merit aid, 1) look at the stats on merit offers and ED for most schools. Not good if you take out recruited athletes. Going ED is shooting yourself in the foot as far as your chances for merit--what's their incentive to offer it? And if financial aid is really important to you, it's way better to be able to compare packages because schools calculate demonstrated need differently, give different balances of grants and loans. Essentially by taking this gamble with your #1 school ED, you're lessening your chance of merit aid and just have to give a yes/no on the financial aid package. If it's no, it's out of the running and you're left with having to choose among what your less favored other RD schools offered. It just doesn't make sense to me. But it's your choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools do not have to publish their common data sets.

The only top-100 school I'm aware of that of does not publish a CDS is Boston College. Please enlighten us as to others you know of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools do not have to publish their common data sets.

The only top-100 school I'm aware of that of does not publish a CDS is Boston College. Please enlighten us as to others you know of.

University of Chicago
Columbia University

[Anonymous]

One proves the point but I was thinking of U of Chicago but I did not want to rile up the u of c troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is not quite true that you have to withdraw your applications once you get in ED. You have to withdraw after you get in ED and you get your financial aid package.

No one seems to say that if you get in ED, you won't get merit aid and the schools by and large deny it. It would be one thing is a school said - look, we don't give merit aid for ED candidates. But they don't, to my knowledge. So taking the chance on a merit award certainly does not seem irrational, particularly where a student genuinely (1) has a first choice and (2) has some chance of merit aid based on grades/test scores. If the merit aid does not come through and the student can't afford it, then that's the reason the escape clause exists. The student doesn't get to go, has to apply to other schools, and hope for the best, And the school is not really hurt in any significant sense, as these cases are going to be comparatively rare,

Not getting hoped for merit aid does not constitute a reasonable decline of ED. They specifically advise you: if you can't afford the number the NPC gives you, don't apply ED. You would still experience the consequences of breaking the ED contract.

While some school may make such a statement, many schools do not. Typical contractual language is that you are realeased if you do not received "sufficient finanical aid to make attendance possible."

Yes, that's often the contractual language--but you're expected to do due diligence on whether the school is likely to meet what you deem your financial ability without merit aid--and the clause is more about financial changes in your situation. But, you're right, no one's going to arrest you if you break your contract. But your counselor and other ED schools will know about it. And if it's a school that's known to fund to full demonstrated need, that's a negative mark on your application to the other schools. Also if you're hoping for merit aid, 1) look at the stats on merit offers and ED for most schools. Not good if you take out recruited athletes. Going ED is shooting yourself in the foot as far as your chances for merit--what's their incentive to offer it? And if financial aid is really important to you, it's way better to be able to compare packages because schools calculate demonstrated need differently, give different balances of grants and loans. Essentially by taking this gamble with your #1 school ED, you're lessening your chance of merit aid and just have to give a yes/no on the financial aid package. If it's no, it's out of the running and you're left with having to choose among what your less favored other RD schools offered. It just doesn't make sense to me. But it's your choice.

The quoted language is not "more about" anything - it says what it says. And what stats on merit aid and ED are you talking about? Surely that would be a better way of making a point than saying something is "more about" something other than what it says. Plus I question the harm. Obviously, if you get in and get merit aid, no problem. If you don't and then reluctantly have to opt out, how are you worse off? You are limited to the same schools you could otherwise afford without merit aid. Your answer seems predicated on the notion that the school will not give merit aid or will give less merit aid because you applied ED. Maybe that is true, but seems like it is just your say-so on that point. Seems equally likely that schools see certain candidates as worthy of merit aid without necessarily being wrapped up in whether the candidate is ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You keep writing and writing and writing jibberish to justify the fact that you limited your kids’ college choices so that you can fund your manipulative extended family. Are your kids angry at you or are you afraid that they are angry at you? Sounds like it.

My kid got into an ivy ED- picked out of the 38k kids- and did receive aid. Another friends kid got into Princeton ED and also received a good chunk of aid , despite being middle class. But yes, neither of us have any idea what we are doing.

I'm glad it worked for you. And the aid you're talking about then is financial aid which is not limited in ED if the net price calculator estimated that you qualified and the college is a college that claims to meet full need--as all the Ivy league schools tend to do. But the OP asked about merit aid and extended the concept of the financial release clause in ways that it doesn't apply. I'm not worried for my kid--we are happy with his chosen application strategies-- but I think it's important for families to fully understand the risks of ED--there's a lot of misconceptions out there.

No Ivy has ED so either you are lying. a poseur or just don't understand what we are trying to tell you. And the only financial aid you will bet at the ivies is if you have a HHI of less than @ $70-85.

U Penn
U Chicago
Brown
Duke
Dartmouth
Cornell

& many others. Northwestern, Hopkins, Vandy.

[Anonymous]

You can get things like Questbridge scholarships to use at an ivy, but those are low income scholarships.