Donating our embryos through an open placement -- AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure whether anyone is curious, but I'm happy to answer questions about our experience donating embryos through an open-placement process.

We were incredibly lucky and got three kids from IVF. Now we are donating our "extra" embryos -- six high quality blastocysts -- to another family.

The clinic we're working with submitted families for our consideration. We chose one, and that family liked us back. If any babies are born, we will be in annual contact with the adopting family until any offspring are 18.

We told my MIL about the embryo donation, and her mind was blown. So that got me thinking that maybe others would have questions about the process and/or our thinking about the whole thing.

Does grandma want some rights to see the grandchild too?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:How do you feel about the fact that you are likely creating a trauma for any kids that result from this "donation"? Any adoption, no matter how loving and secure, is a trauma for the child, knowing that his/her bio parents couldn't or wouldn't take care of him.

OP here.

Is this a serious question? Seems kinda troll-like.

OP did you research adoption at all before you did this?

OP here.

I researched adoption a bit, but only some of the issues overlap with embryo donation. Much of what's out there about baby adoption is somewhat off for this particular type of arrangement.

The agency provides a thorough set of FAQs for both the donors and adopters, and we read all of that info.

Here are two tremendous differences between baby adoption and embryo donation:

1. Our embryos aren't babies.
2. I won't carry the embryo until it becomes a baby.

I imagine that any future child will take heart in knowing that my husband and I didn't place him/her up for adoption. Rather, we're giving embryos a chance at becoming a baby.

I'm truly just a cell donor. The adopting mother will not only raise the child, by gestating a baby she will also create a biological link to the child. New-ish research shows that a gestational mother's DNA influences a baby's genes. Isn't that amazing!

\

If you truly don't think the embryos are babies, then I'm not sure why you're wading into this ethical quagmire. At the very least, it seems like you'd go into it with WAY lowered expectations for what kind of contact you'll have with the child.

NP, but can't you accept that there's a bit of grey area here in terms of emotions and biological relationships? I also don't believe that embryos are babies, but also can completely understand how one feels a connection to their embryos and can imagine a connection between her children (who she's raising) and the "could have been my child". OP seems to respect the the existing and potential human beings touched by this decision, and has made (in my opinion) a commendable decision to grant another couple the opportunity to be parents, while also helping to fill in the gaps that such a donation might leave in the resulting child's psyche.

I have a daughter conceived of by my own egg and husband's sperm, but a second child for us would mean DE. I'm actually leaning towards an embryo donation if we end up looking to expand our family, because I want my children to truly believe that the egg and sperm are ultimately minimal factors in the definition of family (for us, at least). Using just DE sends a more mixed message (like, genes don't matter and you're still Mom's child, but they kind of do, so we still wanted Dad's sperm). I'm still puzzling through all of this personally but I would welcome an opportunity to work with someone like OP to complete our family. (and I'm Jewish, so I appreciate the perspective of using a Christian agency when you're not actually Christian).

that's entirely too neat a viewpoint. yes, OP is commendable for deciding to donate to another family; but she's donating to a family that could afford to make their own embryos, so she's not actually giving them the "opportunity to be parents." and it's just a fantasy to think that OP can mitigate now any potential trauma caused by the adoption. she'd have more integrity if she admitted she doesn't know what the risk is, but thinks that the benefits of the children being created outweigh the risks to the child.

Did I miss the part about the adoptive family being able to afford (or even create in the first place) their own embryos? I might have. Regardless:

I don't think the OP can eliminate any potential trauma -- nobody in the world can promise to eliminate trauma from another person's life -- but I do think that an open relationship can help mitigate any potential trauma. Mitigate, as in, make less severe. Generally open dialogue between people with good intentions results in a more positive outcome than no dialogue.

Certainly this is not a clean, clear situation, but there's no child in the world who can be guaranteed a clean, clear existence.

1) yes, OP says this couple is white-collar and well-off
2) the point its, IT IS NOT WITHIN OP'S CONTROL to establish an open relationship. she has no legal right to it. she has NO POWER to mitigate anything. She will not be the child's parent
3) at this point, they are embryos, not children. OP is deciding to turn them into children, making her responsible for the circumstances into which they are born.

OP here.

The adopting family is well off, but they are unable to create embryos from their own genetic material.

I agree that I cannot force the adopting family to maintain an open relationship. We only hope that they honor the contract, and I'm guessing they will, based on our interactions with them so far.

My husband and I agree that we bear responsibility for a future child's circumstances. That's why we carefully chose the adopting family. I can't guarantee the adopting family will be everything they claim. But truth be told, I can't guarantee that about anyone I know, including me and my husband. Sometimes people aren't what they seem. Sometimes they change. We must make decisions based on the best information we have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure whether anyone is curious, but I'm happy to answer questions about our experience donating embryos through an open-placement process.

We were incredibly lucky and got three kids from IVF. Now we are donating our "extra" embryos -- six high quality blastocysts -- to another family.

The clinic we're working with submitted families for our consideration. We chose one, and that family liked us back. If any babies are born, we will be in annual contact with the adopting family until any offspring are 18.

We told my MIL about the embryo donation, and her mind was blown. So that got me thinking that maybe others would have questions about the process and/or our thinking about the whole thing.

Does grandma want some rights to see the grandchild too?

DP. This question makes me think of something I hadn't before--a difference btw this and traditional adoption. In the case of an already-born child, there's usually an attempt to find a family member (i.e., grandparent, aunt/uncle, cousin, etc) to adopt him/her. In this case, there's none of that. From the outset, the child will go to a completely different family.

What does the rest of your extended family feel, OP, assuming they know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are crazy about this kind of stuff, OP! Don’t let the DCUM negativity get to you.

I agree that being alive is better than being dead, and that giving these embryos a chance to be alive is on balance a good thing. You cannot guarantee them a perfect life but that is true of every baby born! Should we all stop having kids because they might someday experience negative emotions? It’s a part if life! You do what you can and you leave the rest up to fate/god/whatever.

I also agree that it is very different from adoption. With adoption, the baby already exists and then the parents opt out of parenting their kid. With embryo donation, this is the only way to offer the child a chance at existence and you have done so in a way that leave the door open for the child to know more about his/her genetic heritage should that need arise.

I think this is a great way to honor the struggle you had conceiving and the blessed result of your own three kids by giving another family a chance at having a child.

I find this question fascinating, and frankly the whole discussion.

If you believe an embryo is not a baby, then why wouldn't abortion be just as valid a decision? I am also curious as to OP's thoughts on abortion.

OP touched on the part where I feel it truly differs from traditional adoption. Carrying a baby term leaves indelible marks on both the baby and the mother. The baby has heard and felt and been fed by the mother. The mom has felt the baby move and hiccup and the baby is altering mom's body. I also believe this path mitigates the pain for both.

OP here.

I am pro-choice. A woman's body is her own to control.

However, I would not get an abortion for myself, unless the baby's condition was incompatible with life, or carrying the baby threatened my own life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a cruel and arbitrary roll of the dice that some of your and your DH's biological kids will get to live with their bio parents and not have the emotional issues that come with adoption, and some won't and will consequently be weighed down with what is inevitable emotional turmoil.

I understand that you feel science or compassionate transfer or not using the embryos is also cruel, and I admit I do not identify with that.

In any case, what a terrible conundrum. I do not envy your decision.

OP here.

It is completely arbitrary -- some lab tech essentially chose which of our biological children will be raised by us and which by someone else. It's really a bizarre situation. When IVF was created decades ago, I wonder if the scientists had any notion of the sorts of odd situations that would come up.

Honestly, for me the decision was easy. It felt 100% clear as soon as we had our final kid. Actually, we even told our fertility doctor about our decision when I was still pregnant with our last kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are they adopting all six?

OP here.

Yes -- the clinic requires adopting families to take the lot. If they don't use them all, the "extra" embryos revert to us. But I'm really hoping that they use them all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure whether anyone is curious, but I'm happy to answer questions about our experience donating embryos through an open-placement process.

We were incredibly lucky and got three kids from IVF. Now we are donating our "extra" embryos -- six high quality blastocysts -- to another family.

The clinic we're working with submitted families for our consideration. We chose one, and that family liked us back. If any babies are born, we will be in annual contact with the adopting family until any offspring are 18.

We told my MIL about the embryo donation, and her mind was blown. So that got me thinking that maybe others would have questions about the process and/or our thinking about the whole thing.

Does grandma want some rights to see the grandchild too?

OP here.

Both my parents and my husband's parents would like to meet a future child. However, for obvious reasons, that meeting will only occur if the adopting family wants to make it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure whether anyone is curious, but I'm happy to answer questions about our experience donating embryos through an open-placement process.

We were incredibly lucky and got three kids from IVF. Now we are donating our "extra" embryos -- six high quality blastocysts -- to another family.

The clinic we're working with submitted families for our consideration. We chose one, and that family liked us back. If any babies are born, we will be in annual contact with the adopting family until any offspring are 18.

We told my MIL about the embryo donation, and her mind was blown. So that got me thinking that maybe others would have questions about the process and/or our thinking about the whole thing.

Does grandma want some rights to see the grandchild too?

DP. This question makes me think of something I hadn't before--a difference btw this and traditional adoption. In the case of an already-born child, there's usually an attempt to find a family member (i.e., grandparent, aunt/uncle, cousin, etc) to adopt him/her. In this case, there's none of that. From the outset, the child will go to a completely different family.

What does the rest of your extended family feel, OP, assuming they know?

OP here.

Our families know about this decision, and they seem happy about it. My father in particular said it's a mitzvah. No one has openly expressed any sort of criticism or condemnation.

I think some family members are bewildered by all of our IVF stuff, not just the donation.

[Anonymous]

If you are given pictures of the resulting babies, will you share them with your kids?

[Anonymous]

OP I am amazed how patient you are in answering some of these questions! I would have lost it by now with all these questions (some plain rude). I too feel the same way as you do. I was going to donate the extra embryos to science and bring them home and bury them in the backyard or something. That changed once I gave birth to DD. I know a lot of ppl would say embryos are not babies, but they could. I agree with one of the posters that giving life is better than death! All the best to you.

[Anonymous]

It would be interesting to hear the perspective of people who are the result of this scenario.

I’m an adult adoptee and do not feel the trauma of my adoption at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are given pictures of the resulting babies, will you share them with your kids?

OP here.

Yep -- we will share photos with our kids. The contract calls for the adopting family to share a photo at least once a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are crazy about this kind of stuff, OP! Don’t let the DCUM negativity get to you.

I agree that being alive is better than being dead, and that giving these embryos a chance to be alive is on balance a good thing. You cannot guarantee them a perfect life but that is true of every baby born! Should we all stop having kids because they might someday experience negative emotions? It’s a part if life! You do what you can and you leave the rest up to fate/god/whatever.

I also agree that it is very different from adoption. With adoption, the baby already exists and then the parents opt out of parenting their kid. With embryo donation, this is the only way to offer the child a chance at existence and you have done so in a way that leave the door open for the child to know more about his/her genetic heritage should that need arise.

I think this is a great way to honor the struggle you had conceiving and the blessed result of your own three kids by giving another family a chance at having a child.

I find this question fascinating, and frankly the whole discussion.

If you believe an embryo is not a baby, then why wouldn't abortion be just as valid a decision? I am also curious as to OP's thoughts on abortion.

OP touched on the part where I feel it truly differs from traditional adoption. Carrying a baby term leaves indelible marks on both the baby and the mother. The baby has heard and felt and been fed by the mother. The mom has felt the baby move and hiccup and the baby is altering mom's body. I also believe this path mitigates the pain for both.

Because very few people statistically view the abortion debate in such black and white terms. Our political parties would like you to believe that ALL Republicans believe that every time a sperm hits and egg it immediately becomes a fully formed person with all the moral and legal standing that entails, and that ALL democrats believe that abortion is basically like cutting your hair and should be available on every streetcorner and paid for by the taxpayer. BUT, surveys that ask actual nuanced questions always show that most people are much more open and flyid in their thinking.

An human woman old enough to conceive a child is also old enough to weigh the many financial, physical and emotional health costs of carrying to term and of raising a subsequent child and in many cases is it morally allowable to terminate a pregnancy and a legal system that tries to take over that decision is guaranteed to do more harm than good, so abortion should probably be technically legal and available to those who need it, and statistically most people believe some version of that.

ALSO, an embryo at any stage of life is at minimum an independent genetic destiny and discarding it should be viewed and a weighty and sober decision, not to be entered into lightly. Statistically, most people also believe some version of that.

Therefore, OP is not abnormal in being able to simultaneously believe that these embryos are not her children, but also believe that they are of great worth BECAUSE THEY ARE A HUMAN LIFE on any level and that she is responsible to give them the best chance she can rather than throw them away because their existence might be emotionally complicated for her years from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are crazy about this kind of stuff, OP! Don’t let the DCUM negativity get to you.

I agree that being alive is better than being dead, and that giving these embryos a chance to be alive is on balance a good thing. You cannot guarantee them a perfect life but that is true of every baby born! Should we all stop having kids because they might someday experience negative emotions? It’s a part if life! You do what you can and you leave the rest up to fate/god/whatever.

I also agree that it is very different from adoption. With adoption, the baby already exists and then the parents opt out of parenting their kid. With embryo donation, this is the only way to offer the child a chance at existence and you have done so in a way that leave the door open for the child to know more about his/her genetic heritage should that need arise.

I think this is a great way to honor the struggle you had conceiving and the blessed result of your own three kids by giving another family a chance at having a child.

I find this question fascinating, and frankly the whole discussion.

If you believe an embryo is not a baby, then why wouldn't abortion be just as valid a decision? I am also curious as to OP's thoughts on abortion.

OP touched on the part where I feel it truly differs from traditional adoption. Carrying a baby term leaves indelible marks on both the baby and the mother. The baby has heard and felt and been fed by the mother. The mom has felt the baby move and hiccup and the baby is altering mom's body. I also believe this path mitigates the pain for both.

Because very few people statistically view the abortion debate in such black and white terms. Our political parties would like you to believe that ALL Republicans believe that every time a sperm hits and egg it immediately becomes a fully formed person with all the moral and legal standing that entails, and that ALL democrats believe that abortion is basically like cutting your hair and should be available on every streetcorner and paid for by the taxpayer. BUT, surveys that ask actual nuanced questions always show that most people are much more open and flyid in their thinking.

An human woman old enough to conceive a child is also old enough to weigh the many financial, physical and emotional health costs of carrying to term and of raising a subsequent child and in many cases is it morally allowable to terminate a pregnancy and a legal system that tries to take over that decision is guaranteed to do more harm than good, so abortion should probably be technically legal and available to those who need it, and statistically most people believe some version of that.

ALSO, an embryo at any stage of life is at minimum an independent genetic destiny and discarding it should be viewed and a weighty and sober decision, not to be entered into lightly. Statistically, most people also believe some version of that.

Therefore, OP is not abnormal in being able to simultaneously believe that these embryos are not her children, but also believe that they are of great worth BECAUSE THEY ARE A HUMAN LIFE on any level and that she is responsible to give them the best chance she can rather than throw them away because their existence might be emotionally complicated for her years from now.

I don't think so. By that theory, all eggs should be fertilized because they are also human life.

An embryo is potential human life. Especially a frozen embryo.

Purposefully donating a frozen embryo to someone else is basically the same thing as making a decision to conceive a child from an egg and sperm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are crazy about this kind of stuff, OP! Don’t let the DCUM negativity get to you.

I agree that being alive is better than being dead, and that giving these embryos a chance to be alive is on balance a good thing. You cannot guarantee them a perfect life but that is true of every baby born! Should we all stop having kids because they might someday experience negative emotions? It’s a part if life! You do what you can and you leave the rest up to fate/god/whatever.

I also agree that it is very different from adoption. With adoption, the baby already exists and then the parents opt out of parenting their kid. With embryo donation, this is the only way to offer the child a chance at existence and you have done so in a way that leave the door open for the child to know more about his/her genetic heritage should that need arise.

I think this is a great way to honor the struggle you had conceiving and the blessed result of your own three kids by giving another family a chance at having a child.

I find this question fascinating, and frankly the whole discussion.

If you believe an embryo is not a baby, then why wouldn't abortion be just as valid a decision? I am also curious as to OP's thoughts on abortion.

OP touched on the part where I feel it truly differs from traditional adoption. Carrying a baby term leaves indelible marks on both the baby and the mother. The baby has heard and felt and been fed by the mother. The mom has felt the baby move and hiccup and the baby is altering mom's body. I also believe this path mitigates the pain for both.

Because very few people statistically view the abortion debate in such black and white terms. Our political parties would like you to believe that ALL Republicans believe that every time a sperm hits and egg it immediately becomes a fully formed person with all the moral and legal standing that entails, and that ALL democrats believe that abortion is basically like cutting your hair and should be available on every streetcorner and paid for by the taxpayer. BUT, surveys that ask actual nuanced questions always show that most people are much more open and flyid in their thinking.

An human woman old enough to conceive a child is also old enough to weigh the many financial, physical and emotional health costs of carrying to term and of raising a subsequent child and in many cases is it morally allowable to terminate a pregnancy and a legal system that tries to take over that decision is guaranteed to do more harm than good, so abortion should probably be technically legal and available to those who need it, and statistically most people believe some version of that.

ALSO, an embryo at any stage of life is at minimum an independent genetic destiny and discarding it should be viewed and a weighty and sober decision, not to be entered into lightly. Statistically, most people also believe some version of that.

Therefore, OP is not abnormal in being able to simultaneously believe that these embryos are not her children, but also believe that they are of great worth BECAUSE THEY ARE A HUMAN LIFE on any level and that she is responsible to give them the best chance she can rather than throw them away because their existence might be emotionally complicated for her years from now.

I don't think so. By that theory, all eggs should be fertilized because they are also human life.

An embryo is potential human life. Especially a frozen embryo.

Purposefully donating a frozen embryo to someone else is basically the same thing as making a decision to conceive a child from an egg and sperm.

^^ basically what I'm saying is that OP is engaging in a cognitive error, based on the emotions she invests in the genetic material and process that created her **actual children.** Cognitive errors are fine and normal, but they should be seriously questioned when they lead to big decisions, such as this one.

my opinion is that donating frozen embryos because you feel morally beholden to "give them a chance at life" makes no sense, unless you also believe that you should never use birth control and should maximize childbirth. (Some people do believe this!)

what DOES make sense however is donating them to an infertile couple that couldn't afford to create an embryo otherwise.