Getting into top 20 college is nearly impossible without

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the resent at preferences for URMs. It's not like white people aren't favored in everything!

You probably mean everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in secondary education. I know a white girl who got into an Ivy for soccer the summer after 9th grade. She's no genius. I also have a black football player who has offers from a few Ivies and he's a nice kid, but a legit idiot.

Wait, how is this new info?

To the OP, someone actually does get in. URM, athlete, legacy are hooks we would all LOVE to have.

Or to be all three.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in secondary education. I know a white girl who got into an Ivy for soccer the summer after 9th grade. She's no genius. I also have a black football player who has offers from a few Ivies and he's a nice kid, but a legit idiot.

Wait, how is this new info?

To the OP, someone actually does get in. URM, athlete, legacy are hooks we would all LOVE to have.

I just wonder where a top Ivy can hide dummy athletes? I don't think any Ivies have remedial coursework like public Us offer. And a football player at an Ivy isn't leaving early to go pro, they have to hide these kids in classes for the full 4 years.

And the 9th grader getting into an Ivy two years before coach or admissions sees her SAT? Explain THAT.

Not hard to hide. Find a few profs who like you in particular fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if some of these stories about idiot athletes at Ivies are representative. The year my kid started Columbia, the athletic recruits at the welcome session were from TJ and the Blair magnet.

I read a book on getting into the Ivy League and some of the rich kid sport (tennis, crew, lacrosse) athletes disclosed they had laughably low stats. And if you know any Ivy students, a constant theme on campus is real students vs athletes. Everyone knows most of the athletes are idiots, comparatively speaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if some of these stories about idiot athletes at Ivies are representative. The year my kid started Columbia, the athletic recruits at the welcome session were from TJ and the Blair magnet.

I read a book on getting into the Ivy League and some of the rich kid sport (tennis, crew, lacrosse) athletes disclosed they had laughably low stats. And if you know any Ivy students, a constant theme on campus is real students vs athletes. Everyone knows most of the athletes are idiots, comparatively speaking.

Don't forget fencing, another rich kid sport.

I do know an Ivy kid (my own) and I disagree that the athletes are universally seen as dumb. Fratty maybe, misogynistic or even racist in some cases, but not idiots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if some of these stories about idiot athletes at Ivies are representative. The year my kid started Columbia, the athletic recruits at the welcome session were from TJ and the Blair magnet.

I read a book on getting into the Ivy League and some of the rich kid sport (tennis, crew, lacrosse) athletes disclosed they had laughably low stats. And if you know any Ivy students, a constant theme on campus is real students vs athletes. Everyone knows most of the athletes are idiots, comparatively speaking.

Don't forget fencing, another rich kid sport.

I do know an Ivy kid (my own) and I disagree that the athletes are universally seen as dumb. Fratty maybe, misogynistic or even racist in some cases, but not idiots.

I don’t think H & Y recruit for fencing. P & S do, but are looking for likely Olympians. Fencers are often very smart and teams are small so you don’t have to sacrifice academics to get good fencers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just seems so unfair to me that some parents are spending a lot of money for college counselors to package their kids for acceptance into college.
Just wondering if this really gives them any advantage over the rest of our kids - or if the admission committees can spot these applicants ans that is why the counselors are bemoaning the low acceptance rates for their clients. If our kids stats were golden (including a major talent) why would we need you anyway?

Typical suburbanite UMC white lady here who spent the longest meal of my life seated next to another UMC white lady whose kid got into HYP with stats that were very strong but indistinguishable from those of her classmates. They used a counselor, and she was really pushing me to use the same person. So maybe there is some magic with the resultant packaging? Or maybe the university had a track record with this counselor?

Or maybe her kid had better recs. Mom doesn’t know, so she credits the counselor. But what could/did the counselor do? No way in hell that the for-hire counselor’s word got the DC admitted. The counselor barely knows the kid.

With enough research on your own, you and your kid can do your own packaging. I'm fully convinced that's partially how my kid got into a USNWR top 5. Kid was in public school and the counselor really only understood and pushed UMD, so we realized we needed a little extra help. So DC and I read up on College Confidential and got a few books (DC was really into it and drove a lot of this). There are a few obvious things, like don't write your essay about your inspirational grandma or your service trip, if it's in a major city don't wax eloquent about the city at the expense of the college, present yourself as a kid with a "passion" rather than the "well-rounded" kid colleges were looking for in our generation. DC's grades and stats were great (that's basically a pre-requisite) and DC's EC's and awards naturally pointed to a passion. So DC knocked the essays out of the park with a consistent theme about pursing the passion at the college. The "why do you want to attend our college?" essay was basically all about how DC could only really pursue that passion at that college, which was actually true, so it was all the more convincing (colleges love kids who love them, because it helps yield).

Of course, if you don't have the time but you do have the money, then pay an advisor.

We made the choice to have an outside counselor and ours does have relationships with the colleges, goes on regular visits, knows our HS and does a real deep dive to know the student/client. We didn't hire the counselor to get our kid in anywhere but wanted the expertise to guide the process. Once I realized how much it had changed, I just didn't want to do it. I especially didn't want to put stress on my relationship with my kid. It definitely can be done without paying for a counselor but it is a big task - helps significantly to have a motivated kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if some of these stories about idiot athletes at Ivies are representative. The year my kid started Columbia, the athletic recruits at the welcome session were from TJ and the Blair magnet.

I read a book on getting into the Ivy League and some of the rich kid sport (tennis, crew, lacrosse) athletes disclosed they had laughably low stats. And if you know any Ivy students, a constant theme on campus is real students vs athletes. Everyone knows most of the athletes are idiots, comparatively speaking.

There was an anti-athlete opinion piece in the Yale news earlier this year (http://yaledailynews.com/blog/2017/02/27/aronson-admissions-and-athletics/ ) that got a fair amount of attention. Here's one reaction: http://thepolitic.org/in-defense-of-student-athletes/

We talked about this with my son, who is going through the recruiting process for a sport this year, and is looking at both Ivy league and non-Ivy league schools. It's definitely a turn-off to think about a school with a large population of Cole Aronsons (likely children of people like PP) running around.

[Anonymous]

I want to debunk this so hard because I've written about this before, but I have a DD at Stanford and she's about as normal as they come. People were shocked when she got in, her counselor told her she had a snow ball's chance in hell and almost refused to do the damn paperwork for the application, but they were wrong and so are a lot of you.

DD was a good student with a decent, but not crazy GPA. Her SAT scores were good, but seriously in line with plenty of people's who were rejected based on her schools scattercram. She's was basically around the in-pool for UVA. She did zero extra-circulars. And I mean, zero.

Her interest was shopping, fashion, and make up. She was a crazy online shopper, she had a website about make-up and fashion, she worked at a make up store, was crazy about the beauty industry and online shopping. She had an interest in STEM and talked about ideas she wanted to pursue and why she thought her view and perspective was different. She wrote her essay about merchandising, consumer trends, and how stores and websites drive people to choose certain things. It's basically what led her to studying a STEM based program and working at a large online retailer last summer. She wasn't hooked.

I do think there's an element of randomness, but I also think a compelling story and interest tied can sometimes make someone stand out.

[Anonymous]

My kid got into HYPS I believe because of a recommendation from a teacher. He went to a small private school and became a real expert in a particular subject matter which is not a stem subject. He helped do research for her and she included his name on some articles she published. He also was TA in her class his senior year. His grades and scores were excellent but I really believe his work with this single teacher was what made him stand out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to debunk this so hard because I've written about this before, but I have a DD at Stanford and she's about as normal as they come. People were shocked when she got in, her counselor told her she had a snow ball's chance in hell and almost refused to do the damn paperwork for the application, but they were wrong and so are a lot of you.

DD was a good student with a decent, but not crazy GPA. Her SAT scores were good, but seriously in line with plenty of people's who were rejected based on her schools scattercram. She's was basically around the in-pool for UVA. She did zero extra-circulars. And I mean, zero.

Her interest was shopping, fashion, and make up. She was a crazy online shopper, she had a website about make-up and fashion, she worked at a make up store, was crazy about the beauty industry and online shopping. She had an interest in STEM and talked about ideas she wanted to pursue and why she thought her view and perspective was different. She wrote her essay about merchandising, consumer trends, and how stores and websites drive people to choose certain things. It's basically what led her to studying a STEM based program and working at a large online retailer last summer. She wasn't hooked.

I do think there's an element of randomness, but I also think a compelling story and interest tied can sometimes make someone stand out.

I can co-sign on this - not for my kid but one who got into Stanford from our HS. You have to be an interesting kid with a distinct point-of-view. For these top schools, it can trump everything else. They don't want robots.

[Anonymous]

For parents of high schoolers who are reading this and getting increasingly freaked out, I heartily recommend Andrew Ferguson's Crazy U. It's absolutely hilarious, and you'll learn a lot about the history of SATs, essay coaching, and so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
With enough research on your own, you and your kid can do your own packaging. I'm fully convinced that's partially how my kid got into a USNWR top 5. Kid was in public school and the counselor really only understood and pushed UMD, so we realized we needed a little extra help. So DC and I read up on College Confidential and got a few books (DC was really into it and drove a lot of this). There are a few obvious things, like don't write your essay about your inspirational grandma or your service trip, if it's in a major city don't wax eloquent about the city at the expense of the college, present yourself as a kid with a "passion" rather than the "well-rounded" kid colleges were looking for in our generation. DC's grades and stats were great (that's basically a pre-requisite) and DC's EC's and awards naturally pointed to a passion. So DC knocked the essays out of the park with a consistent theme about pursing the passion at the college. The "why do you want to attend our college?" essay was basically all about how DC could only really pursue that passion at that college, which was actually true, so it was all the more convincing (colleges love kids who love them, because it helps yield).

Of course, if you don't have the time but you do have the money, then pay an advisor.

We made the choice to have an outside counselor and ours does have relationships with the colleges, goes on regular visits, knows our HS and does a real deep dive to know the student/client. We didn't hire the counselor to get our kid in anywhere but wanted the expertise to guide the process. Once I realized how much it had changed, I just didn't want to do it. I especially didn't want to put stress on my relationship with my kid. It definitely can be done without paying for a counselor but it is a big task - helps significantly to have a motivated kid.

PP here, and I should have mentioned this. Another reason to get a counselor is if you suspect the process won't be a rosy journey of self-discovery and parent-child bonding, but rather a series of tussles over deadlines and essay drafts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to debunk this so hard because I've written about this before, but I have a DD at Stanford and she's about as normal as they come. People were shocked when she got in, her counselor told her she had a snow ball's chance in hell and almost refused to do the damn paperwork for the application, but they were wrong and so are a lot of you.

DD was a good student with a decent, but not crazy GPA. Her SAT scores were good, but seriously in line with plenty of people's who were rejected based on her schools scattercram. She's was basically around the in-pool for UVA. She did zero extra-circulars. And I mean, zero.

Her interest was shopping, fashion, and make up. She was a crazy online shopper, she had a website about make-up and fashion, she worked at a make up store, was crazy about the beauty industry and online shopping. She had an interest in STEM and talked about ideas she wanted to pursue and why she thought her view and perspective was different. She wrote her essay about merchandising, consumer trends, and how stores and websites drive people to choose certain things. It's basically what led her to studying a STEM based program and working at a large online retailer last summer. She wasn't hooked.

I do think there's an element of randomness, but I also think a compelling story and interest tied can sometimes make someone stand out.

That just sent my BS meter off. Sure sounds like you wrote her essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to debunk this so hard because I've written about this before, but I have a DD at Stanford and she's about as normal as they come. People were shocked when she got in, her counselor told her she had a snow ball's chance in hell and almost refused to do the damn paperwork for the application, but they were wrong and so are a lot of you.

DD was a good student with a decent, but not crazy GPA. Her SAT scores were good, but seriously in line with plenty of people's who were rejected based on her schools scattercram. She's was basically around the in-pool for UVA. She did zero extra-circulars. And I mean, zero.

Her interest was shopping, fashion, and make up. She was a crazy online shopper, she had a website about make-up and fashion, she worked at a make up store, was crazy about the beauty industry and online shopping. She had an interest in STEM and talked about ideas she wanted to pursue and why she thought her view and perspective was different. She wrote her essay about merchandising, consumer trends, and how stores and websites drive people to choose certain things. It's basically what led her to studying a STEM based program and working at a large online retailer last summer. She wasn't hooked.

I do think there's an element of randomness, but I also think a compelling story and interest tied can sometimes make someone stand out.

You're pretty much agreeing with the OP. Having your own website and being so knowledgeable in a certain are like that is exactly the kind of talent the OP was talking about.